The "gate way drug" hypothesis is true!

[alkemyst]

Alcohol opens many doors...the poor house...the jail house...the gates of hell. Alcohol is bad; you shouldn't drink.

Helps me study. I have more than doubled my salary in the last few years.

 

[shortylickens]

Ummm, if they hadnt used water they never would have made it long enough to use marijuana. Or use heroin.

 

[Perknose]

Ummm, if they hadnt used water they never would have made it long enough to use marijuana. Or use heroin.

. . . Which brings us to oxygen. J'accuse! D:

 

[IGBT]

if you desire to intoxicate you have a problem.

 

[BoomerD]

Wow...it's a damned good thing I stopped drinking when I did...before it turned me into a heroin addict.
phew...that was close.

 

[grohl]

I drink plenty, and often. Works for me, and it's legal. Never used anything else. I don't think I'm missing out on a thing.

 

[zanejohnson]

if you desire to intoxicate you have a problem.

this right here. is the only truth in the thread so far.

unlessssssss..... your viewing things in your world as a witness, if you are strong willed to the point that you realize, who we, what we are, and where we fit, and you choose to use (not abuse) substances as a window to witness God in a new light... and if you are at that point in existence, you'll only be using psychadelic substances... and if, you've traveled that road enough to be familiar with it... your only using marijuana.

 

[zanejohnson]

if your drinking, or smoking, or using any substance, as a means to intoxicate, or dissociate your self from your baseline, god-given, conscious... there is a problem inside, simple as that...

drinking when you get home after a long day because your tired: problem
drinking to feel the buzz: problem
eating a peyote button with your tribe givin to you by a spiritual leader, and spiritual guide, for a spiritual experience: not a problem

 

[SirStev0]

Tobacco too.

 

[zanejohnson]

for me the substance abuse pattern went like this:

alcohol age 14 or so, abused it through age 18
discovered pot abused it for a couple of years
opiates abused it for 5 years (hardcore abuse, injecting, everything, methadone, the whole bit)

FINALLY KICKED IT

abused alcohol again a little, now i finally knew what real addiction was..kept myself from getting addicted

pot.... not gonna lie, i still love pot, you gotta keep it in check though... i'll smoke every now and then.. you make it a daily thing... you feel that "urge" to smoke..that's addiction... don't allow it.

 

[ShawnD1]

But it is Alcohol

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/07/05/study-the-gateway-drug-is-alcohol-not-marijuana/

Given these stunning findings say we got to prescription only Alcohol.

Actually we already do have something similar to prescription alcohol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_benzodiazepines

if you desire to intoxicate you have a problem.

GOD DAMN SMOKERS WE SHOULD KILL ALL OF THEM

The other side of the fence is that illegal drugs can be a gateway to legal drugs. I've met quite a few people who found out they should be on medication after they became heavily reliant on illegal drugs. People crave drugs for a reason. If you want to get ripped on MDMA and have a cuddle session every week then maybe there's something wrong with you. I know quite a few people who are now taking SSRI drugs instead of MDMA. They are not even close to being the same ballpark in terms of potency, but sometimes a weak drug is all someone needs.

 

[zanejohnson]

just saying.... benzos cant be compared to alcohol... totally diff mechanisms of action...


they do both get you loose though, if that's what ya meant.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Actually we already do have something similar to prescription alcohol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_benzodiazepines


GOD DAMN SMOKERS WE SHOULD KILL ALL OF THEM

The other side of the fence is that illegal drugs can be a gateway to legal drugs. I've met quite a few people who found out they should be on medication after they became heavily reliant on illegal drugs. People crave drugs for a reason. If you want to get ripped on MDMA and have a cuddle session every week then maybe there's something wrong with you. I know quite a few people who are now taking SSRI drugs instead of MDMA. They are not even close to being the same ballpark in terms of potency, but sometimes a weak drug is all someone needs.

It seems often that people who end up addicted have a psychological problem they never learned to deal with. Most drug addicts here in the Netherlands are people who already needed psychiatric help before they got addicted.

I myself do not use weed by the way.
However, a lot of the people who drink in the weekends to have forced fun are IMHO a lot better of smoking a good joint and have some relax time.
Best option of course is to just go for a bicycle ride through the woods with some friends or do some sports together for fun, not for competition. Afterwards retreat alone for some rest or just have some relax time with people who are also wanting to relax.

 

[ShawnD1]

just saying.... benzos cant be compared to alcohol... totally diff mechanisms of action...

Alcohol, benzos, and barbiturates all work on GABA receptors. Alcohol sticks to the receptor so GABA already in the brain has a much stronger effect. Benzodiazepines do the same thing. I'm specficially looking at lorazepam since that's the one I'm most familiar with.
It's worth noting that alcohol, benzos, and barbiturates have a shared tolerance. If you're an alcoholic and you need to drink just to feel normal, you will also have a very high tolerance for benzos.

 

[William Gaatjes]

The whole problem is that people want their mind to get separated from their body yet they never really have been in connection with their body in the first place. Nothing to be ashamed of by the way. In the western hectic life, there is not much chance to learn to know your body. Especially if you are forced by your environment to fit in some extreme way of thinking and behaving. Forced to think and behave beyond the normal accepted common sense etiquette .

 

[BladeVenom]

It seems often that people who end up addicted have a psychological problem they never learned to deal with. Most drug addicts here in the Netherlands are people who already needed psychiatric help before they got addicted.

I would say that it's now looking like genetics is the biggest factor in alcoholism.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

I would say that it's now looking like genetics is the biggest factor in alcoholism.

Genetics interacting with the environment is the biggest factor for everything; each necessary but not sufficient for the other's tendencies (except in the most extreme circumstances)

 

[William Gaatjes]

I would say that it's now looking like genetics is the biggest factor in alcoholism.

Thinking how epigenetics affects life, i am sure that generation long use of alcohol has made some families dependent on it. I would also not be surprised that each family has their own specific bacteria, protozoa, yeast and fungi culture in the gut. These also might have adapted to the alcohol consumption of the host. Humans have been consuming alcohol for centuries.

I have this theory :
One scenario might be that drinking alcohol might suppress some of the organisms in the gut, keeping it from becoming to large in numbers. Thus some people might not really function as a child or adult when it comes to learning or having inner peace until they are at the age that they can drink because of the supression of some organism in the gut that influences neurotransmitter levels. And those people magically change in behavior only because of daily consumption of alcohol.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Thinking how epigenetics affects life, i am sure that generation long use of alcohol has made some families dependent on it. I would also not be surprised that each family has their own specific bacteria, protozoa, yeast and fungi culture in the gut. These also might have adapted to the alcohol consumption of the host. Humans have been consuming alcohol for centuries.

I have this theory :
One scenario might be that drinking alcohol might suppress some of the organisms in the gut, keeping it from becoming to large in numbers. Thus some people might not really function as a child or adult when it comes to learning or having inner peace until they are at the age that they can drink because of the supression of some organism in the gut that influences neurotransmitter levels. And those people magically change in behavior only because of daily consumption of alcohol.

Psuto-scientific claptrap used to support psuto-spiritual bullshit.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Psuto-scientific claptrap used to support psuto-spiritual bullshit.

Epigenetics is not claptrap hogworf boobalaboo.

 

[ShawnD1]

It seems often that people who end up addicted have a psychological problem they never learned to deal with. Most drug addicts here in the Netherlands are people who already needed psychiatric help before they got addicted.

I think it's the other way around - people are addicted to drugs because something is physically wrong with them. For example, why is it that cigarettes make me extremely sick, but some people can smoke them constantly? Don't say it's a tolerance. The reason I never started smoking is because it makes me sick every time. Other people will smoke and it's like "whoa, this is awesome" and they keep doing it. I have similar bad reactions to pain killers. I had some Tylenol 3 after oral surgery and they made me so sick that I only took 1 and never took them again. Some people absolutely love pain killers and would abuse them all day if they could. I also get extremely sick from MJ and magic mushrooms. It wasn't bad mushrooms; other people could see hallucinations and swirling colors but I felt like I had the flu.

 

[CRXican]

makes no sense

alcohol is legal, the rest isn't

then again, the law doesn't stop most

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Other people will smoke and it's like "whoa, this is awesome" and they keep doing it.

I smoked, it was amazing! So I never did it again.

genetically I am pre-disposed to addiction; environmentally i was in the worst part of my life... but i still didn't smoke.

A lack of self-control is THE gate-way drug.

 

[alkemyst]

I am a big drinker. I have no desire to expand into other drugs.

I only sometimes have a nice tequila or rum/coke mix.

I have done very expensive cognacs and don't like them.

Champagnes? Martini-Rossi is my favorite because so many women like it better and so many don't know that it's label is not up with Dom and company.

 

[William Gaatjes]

I smoked, it was amazing! So I never did it again.

genetically I am pre-disposed to addiction; environmentally i was in the worst part of my life... but is till didn't smoke.

A lack of self-control is THE gate-way drug.

I agree sort of. It is a lack of self control and more. Most addicts just do not want to stop because they voluntarily choose for the addiction. They have convinced themselves that that is the life they want. If there is inside the mind a small desire to use drugs while knowing what the consequences are... That is why addicts cannot be helped until they are willingly choose to stop and accept help. It is the way the body works. The human body has a natural conditioning and reward system. Using substances that trigger that system, is asking for trouble. That system was developed through evolution to be able to make a connection with another human being and to be able to perform a task without having prior knowledge of the gratification the task will bring. Of course, this can be overruled consciously , but one will never feel good. There is always something... That itch in your mind... That little voice... Trying to convince you... I have seen it far to often. Also once long ago a lot closer then i felled comfortable with... But accepting the knowledge makes making decisions quite easy. Others would say life becomes boring after that and would prefer to go back... Foolish...