You forgot about the turions, the turions MT consumes less amount of power than PM (and the chipset is cooler because there is no memory controller), so there is no point saying AMD are hot for laptops, I would say that an AMD Turion MT laptop is cooler and has longer battery life than PM's (also consinder than intel TDP is not max TDP, so a 25W TDP dothan would consume 36Watts max, AMD uses TDP worst case so a 25W TDP max turion MT at 2.2GHz would consume max 25W, this makes the turion a cooler CPU than Pentium M). Considering that turion has an integrated memory controller, has SSE3, Nx bit, x86-64 , having less TDP than PM is even a greater achievement.
You forgot about the turions, the turions MT consumes less amount of power than PM (and the chipset is cooler because there is no memory controller), so there is no point saying AMD are hot for laptops, I would say that an AMD Turion MT laptop is cooler and has longer battery life than PM's (also consinder than intel TDP is not max TDP, so a 25W TDP dothan would consume 36Watts max, AMD uses TDP worst case so a 25W TDP max turion MT at 2.2GHz would consume max 25W, this makes the turion a cooler CPU than Pentium M). Considering that turion has an integrated memory controller, has SSE3, Nx bit, x86-64 , having less TDP than PM is even a greater achievement.
The design is 35W for the Turion for the higher performing Turion.
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/Pro...ormation/0,,30_118_12651_12658,00.html
Pentium-M is superior to Turion because the flagship Dothan series can match the high end Turion's head to head (and even the desktop FX series when using an overclocked FSB) in benchmarks, on average. On the LV side, you have 1.1 Ghz Dothans that take about 3W of power. Thus, they are suitable for the ultra-lite, ultra-thin notebooks, all the way up to the desktop replacements for the regular chips.
I have heard that Apple is fairly quick to implement new technologies into their pc?s (might have been a Slashdot article). Intel is always announcing new features of their chips that will do this and that and for the most part windows doesn?t take full advantage of these. This would be good for Intel and Apple because Intel can release its new tech knowing that someone is going to use it straight away and Apple can promote that they take full advantage of this new feature. I think this will go a long way to making macs more affordable. I was interested in the mac mini but when I looked at it compared to my pc or any other pc of the same price range it was very underpowered in my opinion. To me it seemed to have a slow hdd (5400rpm I think could be wrong and UATA), slow ram (333mhz) and poor graphics card (agp 4x 9200). With the switch to Intel there is the potential to go all out and have ddr2 ram, pci express graphics cards, SATA hdd and because these are all readily available, the mac should be cheaper and be upgradeable for less.
IntelUser2000
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The results of 2.5GHz dual core G5 is questionable. I was searching for G5's spec results and came across The Register's INITIAL specint and fp scores for G5 @ 2.0GHz. It got around over 1400 for both. Now what did the final production one get?? Slightly less than ~1100 for both. Though 2.5GHz is 25% higher clock, it does not explain AT ALL how they managed to increase fp scores by twice.
High en turion match high end dothans in bechmarks with a sightly advantage on the side of turions, I don't see why you say that Pentium M are superior?, I would say they are at least equal in performance in most of apps with a singnificant advantage of turion with FP intensive apps (not common in laptop) and also remember the additional features like integrated memory controller , SSE3, Nx bit and 64 bit extensions that dothan doesn't have (talking abou desktop the PM is extremely weak in FP performance it is no match for the A64 desktop line in many desktop apps)
Abot power comsumption the MT-40 high end turion (look in the link you provided) has a 25W TDP, lower than any comparable performance pentium M. I see you don't get it AMD have 2 turion series, the normal with 35W TDP: the ML series, and the one with lower power comsumption which is the MT series. MT-40 and ML-40 have the same performance but the MT-40 consumes only 25W max, and you are ignoring it and only taking in account the ML series why?. The PM 780 has a 27W intel TDP, but remember that intel TDP is not max TDP, so a 27W PM as I said has aprox 36W max TDP which is much more than the 25W of the turion MT series.
Ultra low power chips is not an issue , AMD could easily make ultra low power and frequency Turion CPUs. Remember that turions with power now! enabled lower the frequency to 1GHz and the voltage as low as the ultra low voltage PM, so they can do it too with zero effort.
So for laptops the turion is better CPU. I list the reasons:
-Turion and PM have equal i general performance clock for clock , with a SIGHTLY advantage on the side of the Turions.
-Turions destroy PM in FPU intensive apps, even if those apps are not common for laptop use.
-Turion MT series consumes less power than similar performance PM.
-Turion is cheaper than similar performance PM, also the Turion is a open plataform.
-Turion has additional features: SSE3, Nx bit and 64 bit extensions, PM doesn't.
So why is the PM superior?
Also read the conclusion of this Laptop Logic article, specially the update, wich express more clearly what I am trying to explain. You have to take in account that comparison was made with a Turion ML, the Turion MT eliminates the advantage of the Dothan on full load battery life. As you can see in normal usage even the Turion ML is much better than dothan in battery life.
Specially this part
" Intel computes thermal design power as 75% of the maximum load on the chip, while AMD's TDP rating is derived from the absolute worst case power dissipation of the chip. Part of the total system power is also incorporated into AMD's TDP, as the memory controller is located on-chip. Intel's memory controller is built into the chipset and thus draws power not calculated as part of Dothan's TDP. Also while Turion 64 is at idle (1GHz clock speed), it's performance is going to be higher due to the higher clock speed and higher bandwidth data bus. All of these factors contribute to Turion 64 being more power efficient under low load circumstances."
a few questions:
how is is a better mobile solution?
what does open mean?
what additional features?
1- Price/Performance & Performance/watt.
2-Open means they don't have to use only one manufacturer chipset, this makes the plataform cheaper and with more possibilities, The PM is a closed plataform , their laptops only can use chipsets and adapters made by intel, this makes the price higher.
- SSE3, Nx bit and 64 bit extensions that PM doesn't have.
IntelUser2000
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http://www.intel.com/products/processor_number/index_view_pentium_m.htm
Go there about XD(or NX) support. All 533FSB Pentium M's have XD/NX support. Some of LV and ULV PM's have XD/NX support.
Only real advantage of Turion's are better FP performance and 64-bit performance. SSE3 support doesn't matter, since Pentium M scores equal or close to Turions despite no SSE3 support anyway, except some(like FP intensive).
Rememeber, Yonah will have performance enhancements that are focused on SSEx and FP.
Go there about XD(or NX) support. All 533FSB Pentium M's have XD/NX support. Some of LV and ULV PM's have XD/NX support.
Only real advantage of Turion's are better FP performance and 64-bit performance. SSE3 support doesn't matter, since Pentium M scores equal or close to Turions despite no SSE3 support anyway, except some(like FP intensive).
Rememeber, Yonah will have performance enhancements that are focused on SSEx and FP.
Markfw
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- May 16, 2002
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Exactly ! Now I know there is only a few sites that have picked the Turion over the Pentium-M, but at least its a race, and AMD IS a contender. But saying Intel is the laptop king is just wrong. The only reason I recommended that my son get his Turion, is it was $150 cheaper than th Intel contender. And its a screamer.
Turion laptops seem harder to find, and they usually have weaker GFX options from what I've seen.
And, everyone links the Laptop Logic article to show Turion dominance, but I'd like to see more tests. I wish Anandtech would run a similar comparison...
And, everyone links the Laptop Logic article to show Turion dominance, but I'd like to see more tests. I wish Anandtech would run a similar comparison...
Intel is the king because there aren't a whole lot of AMD-based laptops, though that could change next year. So not the absolute performance king (let's face it, the turion and the pentium M pretty much match each other in performance... neither is absolutely superior to the other performance-wise), but the market penetration one. I'm guessing Apple went with Intel because of its software development muscle, more than just because of the processor tech. Remember that it will be a huge effort for apple to be able to pull off the transition to x86 from PPC and I'm guessing most of "Rossetta" was developed by Intel.
Not so hard to find, HP-compaq, MSI and ASUS have very good turion laptops, also hardly people uses laptop to play last generation games. Yes, intel is king in quantity, but I am not talking about that I am talking about price/performance and Performance/watt, I am not taking about absolute performance leader, because there is no such, so you have to consider other factors like price, power consumption and features that makes Turion a better mobile CPU than pentium M.
IntelUser2000
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Err, I know that and plus I wasn't talking to you. In case you have only been reading the last comment and not from the beginning, I was talking to carlosd about saying this:
SSE3 support only matters when its faster, and people somehow think that makes Turions better when SSE3 is part of the overall equation of Turion's performance. ALL, I mean ALL the 533FSB PM's have NX equivalent.
Looking at another Laptoplogic review:
http://www.laptoplogic.com/reviews/detail.php?id=87&part=full&page=6
http://www.laptoplogic.com/reviews/detail.php?id=87&part=full&page=9
Pentium M based system gets 40-50% better battery life over Turion with only 19% advantage in battery size in everything.
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfis...on-64-Pentium-M-Asus-A6000-327%2f11%2f
Looking at the idle speeds of Turion and Pentium M, idle battery life is nearly the same, while for load in games Pentium M system gets 40% better battery life, so we know which one manages battery life at load.
If we see here:
http://hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?cid=14&id=1762&pg=4
Pentium M 1.73GHz system beats Turion 2.0GHz system while consuming less power.
The MSI M635 looks like an abnormally of the bunch since the 1.8GHz manages to beat 2.0GHz with same CPU on performance and get better battery life with ATI X700 then with another Turion system that uses integrated graphics.
LOL this thread became another Intel vs. AMD.
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