The future of Thunderbolt

[Essence_of_War]

I hope this is the correct place for this since thunderbolt is so closely tied to the CPU.

We now have two consecutive generations of NUCs with no thunderbolt support. Thunderbolt is effectively MIA from non-Apple laptops, and there is still no support for display signals from discrete graphics on thunderbolt enabled motherboards.

At this point, do we conclude that Intel is planning to orphan thunderbolt?

 

[Tsavo]

I hope this is the correct place for this since thunderbolt is so closely tied to the CPU.

We now have two consecutive generations of NUCs with no thunderbolt support. Thunderbolt is effectively MIA from non-Apple laptops, and there is still no support for display signals from discrete graphics on thunderbolt enabled motherboards.

At this point, do we conclude that Intel is planning to orphan thunderbolt?

The high cost of TB accessories means that only Apple will use it and a few niche boards.

Intel won't abandon it, though.

 

[witeken]

Thunderbolt 3:

Skylake

http://www.extremetech.com/computin...-and-100w-power-delivery-for-single-cable-pcs

For silicon photonics: https://intel.lanyonevents.com/sf14...c=0&sortBy=abbreviationSort&p=&i(10000)=10180

 

[Essence_of_War]

So then what's the deal with the NUCs? They seem like the perfect vehicle for TB, UCFF can benefit the most from external expandability, right?

 

[scannall]

So then what's the deal with the NUCs? They seem like the perfect vehicle for TB, UCFF can benefit the most from external expandability, right?

It does seem like a glaring omission. The Mac Mini has TB, and it works fine there.

 

[stuff_me_good]

Yeah, why no thunderbolt when it's much more appealing than USB? Does not compute.

 

[witeken]

Yeah, why no thunderbolt when it's much more appealing than USB? Does not compute.

For cost reasons, perhaps?

 

[Essence_of_War]

Thunderbolt 3:

Skylake

http://www.extremetech.com/computin...-and-100w-power-delivery-for-single-cable-pcs

For silicon photonics: https://intel.lanyonevents.com/sf14/connect/search.ww#loadSearch-searchPhrase=&searchType=session&tc=0&sortBy=abbreviationSort&p=&i(10000)=10180

Yeah, so I know that TB3 is coming, but if it comes out and no one uses it for anything, I'd still sort of consider that to be orphaning.

Since discrete graphics cards still can't talk to the thunderbolt controller on the desktop, there is just no drive for adoption anywhere except for the mobile/UCFF, and no one but Apple seems to care about it in the mobile world, and Intel sets the metaphorical tone of the conversation in UCFF and they aren't pushing it either.

 

[ultimatebob]

I've heard that even Apple is planning to migrate away from Thunderbolt in favor of USB 3.1 Type C plugs in the next generation Macbooks.

So, yeah. Stick a fork in it.

 

[Essence_of_War]

Yeah, I've heard that rumor too. I don't know, I suppose it's plausible if the 3.1 spec really does include support for DP.

 

[Idontcare]

Yeah, why no thunderbolt when it's much more appealing than USB? Does not compute.

Thunderbolt doesn't really have much appeal for the mass markets that are represented by your typical consumer IMO.

The downsides of thunderbolt (higher cost and lower power transmission capabilities) are too much to overcome its benefits.

USB3.1 power transmission specs guarantee mass adoption, combined with low price to implement (from the ICs to the adaptor hardware to the cables themselves), which will pretty much satisfy the majority of consumers.

 

[StrangerGuy]

Thunderbolt doesn't really have much appeal for the mass markets that are represented by your typical consumer IMO.

The downsides of thunderbolt (higher cost and lower power transmission capabilities) are too much to overcome its benefits.

USB3.1 power transmission specs guarantee mass adoption, combined with low price to implement (from the ICs to the adaptor hardware to the cables themselves), which will pretty much satisfy the majority of consumers.

Basically TB is the Rambus of I/O interfaces. Geez, I wonder why it failed.

It was easy to see Intel tried their hardest to kill off USB3 adoption with the early SB chipsets to let TB win...Before their own OEMs gave it a big FU by using NEC USB3 controllers all over the place which forced Intel to back off to put in native USB3 support in Z68 onwards.

 

[Phynaz]

It's dead unfortunately.

 

[oobydoobydoo]

We should've stuck with USB 1.0




All the new-fangled connectors... what ever happened to sitting down, having dinner and talking to your family while your file took hours to transfer? Or reading a book?

 

[jumpncrash]

We should've stuck with USB 1.0




All the new-fangled connectors... what ever happened to sitting down, having dinner and talking to your family while your file took hours to transfer? Or reading a book?

you aren't transferring large enough files

 

[MiddleOfTheRoad]

Yeah, why no thunderbolt when it's much more appealing than USB? Does not compute.

So you'd rather have an overpriced, fairly rare and proprietary interface versus the far more common (and nearly as good/fast) USB 3.0?

 

[ClockHound]

We should've stuck with USB 1.0




All the new-fangled connectors... what ever happened to sitting down, having dinner and talking to your family while your file took hours to transfer? Or reading a book?

Yeah...kids these days. Want mo' faster, mo' bigger. Let them go out and earn their own serial bus. That's what we had to do. Wait for the bus. And wait. And wait. Builds character and hemorrhoids.

 

[StinkyPinky]

Didn't Apple get first bite for its use, and all the other tech companies had to hold off for sometime? By then USB 3 was mainstream and it was too late.

USB 3.1 will just finish it off.

 

[Phynaz]

So you'd rather have an overpriced, fairly rare and proprietary interface versus the far more common (and nearly as good/fast) USB 3.0?

USB is not nearly as as good as TB. For example USB requires CPU time, TB is DMA driven.

 

[Abwx]

It's dead unfortunately.

Dead certainly, infortunate definitly no...


Ps : Not on topic but you should click on the link in your sig if you appreciate
futurist razor bleeding edge uber technology...

 

[Essence_of_War]

Ps : Not on topic but you should click on the link in your sig if you appreciate
futurist razor bleeding edge uber technology...

Please take it somewhere else, I have no interest in discussing anything related to that thread with you.

 

[StrangerGuy]

USB is not nearly as as good as TB. For example USB requires CPU time, TB is DMA driven.

Yeah, because we are really lacking CPU power these days to do I/O.

 

[Phynaz]

Yeah, because we are really lacking CPU power these days to do I/O.

Your use case maybe. People that do video or audio can't afford dropped frames, that's why they use deterministic DMA driven interfaces.

 

[XLNC]

I have a customer that wants a discrete Thunderbolt 2 PCIe card for an HP consumer desktop, and I haven't found a single one. All cards are only compatible with motherboards manufactured by the same company. HP has a card, but it's only compatible with their Z workstations. I know TB-2 is fairly niche, but this is unbelievable.

Are my Google skills lacking or are there no universally compatible TB2 PCIe cards?

 

[Essence_of_War]

Are my Google skills lacking or are there no universally compatible TB2 PCIe cards?

Thunderbolt is a tricky beast.

In the desktop space, you need a compatible motherboard with a thunderbolt header in order to add thunderbolt ports via pcie cards.

Anandtech has an outline of how this works on Asus' 7-series boards:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5935/asus-thunderbolt-ex-upgrade-card-for-7series-motherboards

but I have no idea if this product is an actual thing that you can buy, and not just vaporware.