Discussion The future of series/movie delivery, physical media vs streaming/digital only

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
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This is something I've been on the fence about for a while. I own a fair bit in DVD format, and an increasing amount in BR format; I've been replacing some of my DVDs to BRs based on bluray.com reviews and where I've spotted that the original DVD quality leaves somewhat to be desired. For example:

Aliens - it was shot on cheap film and the DVD version is incredibly blotchy/grainy at times. The BR version was remastered and I consider it to be perfectly decent quality.
Some nineties movies like "Carlito's Way" and "Heat" on DVD are not great.
Typically 21st Century movies on DVD are as good as they can be on DVD; they were probably shot digitally so there's no remastering to do.

These days I'm watching stuff on 1080p only but I imagine that will change at some point in the future.

I very rarely rent/buy stuff from a streaming service. My personal opinion is that if I spend money on it, I own it in a way that can't be taken away (short of burning my house down). I've also seen stuff on streaming services looking a bit blotchy, e.g. signs of a bit rate that's too low and it's definitely not down to my Internet connection speed; not quite "8 pixels! 8! AH AH AH! though. I remember during covid that streaming services announced a lowering of bitrates "to keep up with demand", but if one can be sure of anything with capitalism, saving money in any way "because we can" is a pretty commonly applied maxim.

If I had to guess, the typical perspective about what the future holds for this industry will be "streaming/digital all the way". I'd probably be OK with a legitimately purchased, decently encoded, DRM-free MKV file that I can download and store on my computer just like I've ripped all my DVDs/BRs to my computer, but if that started to become a thing I bet two things would occur like it does with ebooks: 1) "this isn't available in your region" (also, I found an ebook site that claimed that a particular ebook was "out of stock", which provoked a chuckle), 2) when the digital only version costs more than the physical copy.

Another perspective to look at this at is the audiophile-type perspective: Streaming will always cost a certain amount of money that suppliers will wish to keep as low as possible, which likely means that quality will always suffer at least to some extent. There's a significant niche in the market to warrant expensive hi-fi equipment, and another hipster/snakeoil "my vinyl sounds better" type niche, so perhaps the quality-oriented options for movie/series delivery will always exist.

Most of the BRs I've picked up in recent years have been second-hand music magpie ebay jobs, so I save a lot of money there compared to the BR normal 'new' price, and at least some money over the streamed alternatives.

Thoughts?
 
Jul 27, 2020
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From the studios'/content creators' point of view, they would like to keep charging consumers for accessing their content, if not per view or monthly subscription then at least per edition (visually enhanced, digitally upscaled, remastered etc.). It's relatively easy money for them and lets them be lazy and enjoy the free money and all the frivolous privileges that come with that.

I think there would be very few digitally shot movies that weren't higher resolution than DVD for the digital intermediate. The originals are either lying in a vault somewhere, neglected because the owner doesn't see any point in spending more money on it for a re-release on BD or it's somehow lost through carelessness. There is a possibility that these might be bought or leased by a streaming service for a better quality release.

The whole piracy situation exists because of these media moguls' insistence on charging exorbitant prices for the right to view their content, even though they might have recouped their original costs many times over already. I have like 50 BD/UHD BDs but I stopped buying after a while coz I don't own a house so it just becomes a huge headache carrying them around every time I have to move. But yeah, considering how cheaply they can be had on sale, I would have had over a thousand by now. Media companies really hate that so they will probably phase out physical media completely at some point. I personally think the solution is for everyone to just put their movies on Youtube and be content with the ad revenue. That way, they keep making money forever.
 

stargazr

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Jun 13, 2010
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I would also like the option to download an MKV movie. I think the current trend will continue with streaming only because most people moved away from physical media and this is more profitable.

As for music, I would like to see options for flac files, but there seems to be regional issues with that as well. I admit mp3 is fine most of the time with, like say Amazon has decent stuff. Still, most mp3 albums are about as much and sometimes more than the CD, which of course is a lossless format. Plus the CD costs more with manufacture, publishing the booklet if included, jewel case etc. It's all bullshit.
 
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purbeast0

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The image quality of streaming can be somewhat close to Bluray quality, but the sound is not even close. Streaming just can't keep up (not yet at least and I'm on gigabit) with the bitrate needed for the sound you get on bluray.

If it's a movie with good sound that I like, I will buy the movie, or I will hit up Redbox. Unfortunately since covid happened, movies and also Redbox have basically taken a shit so I've hardly rented anything from Redbox. I've picked up some movies to purchase though.

A movie like Avatar 2 I refused to stream even though I could watch it months before I could buy the bluray. And I'm glad I waited because the sound in the movie is some of the best ever and streaming it for my first viewing would have ruined the experience.

I realize I am in a huge minority with the quality of sound system that I have though, but I really hope we don't lose physical media. Most people think that 4k on Netflix is the same thing as 4k on a bluray. It's not even remotely the same, but people are dumb and accept anything with buzzwords. But to me, sound is more important than image quality when it comes to movies, and I'm still on a 1080p projector that was new about a decade ago, and it still looks fantastic on a 10 foot screen. I won't upgrade to a 4k projector until I can get the same quality projector as my current one, but in 4k for about $3k max.
 
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Jul 27, 2020
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The image quality of streaming can be somewhat close to Bluray quality, but the sound is not even close. Streaming just can't keep up (not yet at least and I'm on gigabit) with the bitrate needed for the sound you get on bluray.
Totally agree with that. The BD sound of Man of Steel, Pacific Rim and King Arthur: Legend of the Sword kicks SERIOUS butt! The extra oomph can be felt even without audiophile gear.
 

SKORPI0

Lifer
Jan 18, 2000
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I'm still on a 1080p projector that was new about a decade ago, and it still looks fantastic on a 10 foot screen. I won't upgrade to a 4k projector until I can get the same quality projector as my current one, but in 4k for about $3k max.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0967XXVH2?th=1 $1,199
XGIMI Horizon Pro 4K Projector, 2200 ANSI Lumens, Android TV 10.0 Movie Projector with Integrated Harman Kardon Speakers, Auto Keystone Screen Adaption Home Theater Projector
Review -

As posted here.. https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/4k-led-projector-for-1-200-can-shoot-sideways.2614214/
 
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Tech Junky

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upgrade to a 4k projector until I can get the same quality projector as my current one, but in 4k for about $3k max.
I've been playing with these for 2023 going from a short to ultra short throw option. I've tested 3 so far and the Hisense Px1-Pro by far is the top score for now until they release the PX2 in the US. I had tested a PX1-Pro though off Amazon refurbished for ~$2100 all in. 4K / triple laser RGB and I was picking up on tones / colors that I didn't recall seeing with other projectors. The Pro has 2200 ANSI and the non-pro is 2000 ANSI. I also tested out the Nexigo Pj90 and that's a single laser but, it just wouldn't focus 100% and I was always trying to get it to tune better but, it just wouldn't. The nice thing about the Hisense lineup though is that there's an auto keystone feature where you go into a setup wizard, take a photo, upload, and it adjusts things w/o manually tweaking things. The Px1 2000 version is alright but, a little more brightness w/ daylight viewing is needed. The Pro 2200 held its own during daylight but still needed a bit more brightness. Mind you this is on a wall not a screen and I've really been contemplating a screen to see if there's really a difference or if it's just hype to sell a $500+ piece of fabric. I'm waiting for the PX2 though at this point which bumps to 2400 ANSI. Right now there are some listings that are $2999 which bodes well for the actual release price being potentially lower when they release stock to retailers.

Another thing I've noticed is a huge price variance between retailers for the same models. Then again it's like any other transaction where if you're dumb enough to pay $5K for a $2K item because you can't / don't / won't shop around then that's on you. I can't see why paying $5K would net much better results for a projector though. Sure, the higher priced options out there offer a little more brightness or come bundled with screens but, IRL they are all about the same. Then there's the hype machine for each one with false reviews and fluff marketing. It comes down to what it does in your environment and how your eyes process the images.

The other aspect of bundling in features vs a dumb unit makes a difference in picking a proj. The Hisense ones have a decent processor / android level inside and I've yet to find a file they can't handle natively w/o choking. When you get into proj's though it's a gamble on which OS level / version you'll end up with and whether it runs on the unit or they put i ton a USB stick under a cover because they're not a TV MFG. One other bonus with the PX1/pro is you can do OTA w/ an antenna through them as well if you choose to.
 

Motostu

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Oct 5, 2020
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I'm okay with streaming for the initial watch of a movie. For any that I particularly like and will watch again, I buy the 4k blu ray version if I can; I hope this format will continue to be available. Nothing beats the experience in both visuals and sound for me (77" OLED and a decent audio system). I'd be okay with an mkv i can store and play from my plex server as well.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
61,047
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I tend to prefer physical for movies I think I'm likely to watch more than once, I'll settle for a "digital purchase" if it's cheap enough and I'm not too fussed if/when it eventually disappears.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
39,905
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I watch most of my movies via my local public library system. They now often have both BR and DVD of a movie, haven't seen them carry a 4K yet (I've bought a handful of 4K discs). I like watching movies off discs because they often have really helpful/interesting extras. I do buy some stuff here or there, sometimes used. I virtually never stream. I just cancelled a 1 month free Prime Membership trial. I got some free shipping out of it (I never pay Amazon for shipping, anyway, I just get my cart up to the $25 threshold). I couldn't find a single Prime Video that I was interested in in that free month. There were two movies I wanted to (that my library didn't have) but one wasn't available and the other appeared to cost the same as if I didn't have Prime membership. :rolleyes:
 

SKORPI0

Lifer
Jan 18, 2000
18,468
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I prefer physical media (4K, Blu-ray, 3D Blu-ray) than streaming movies, documentaries if available. The video and sound (Dolby Atmos if available) is so much better, specially in 4K.
I'm way behind watching and need to find time. Luckily my local public library begun having 4K UHD disc since 2019 which I took advantage of. You can keep them for 2 weeks, then renew them at the most 2 times again, so possible 6 weeks total. There was a time you'd be waiting 6 months for a physical media/disc to be available for purchase. Currently streaming of movies a few weeks before that.
Now it's down to 2 months, sometimes 6 weeks after release in a theater.

I've also enjoyed watching the 3D Blu-ray versions of Ant-Man Quantumania and Avatar TWOW in my LG 3D OLED (passive). Hopefully Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 in 3D Blu-ray will be made available soon.

Screenshot 2023-08-09 at 12-31-44 Photo - Google Photos.png
 

repoman0

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Jun 17, 2010
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I didn’t realize how low quality streaming generally is vs a good blu-ray until I bought Planet Earth 2 somewhat recently, last year I think. The latter looks absurdly better than anything I have ever watched on my LG OLED.

That said I almost exclusively use streaming to watch things. I only have a few blu-rays even despite the quality difference mostly because I typically don’t watch movies or TV more than once. Also I’m not particularly picky once it looks and sounds good enough.
 
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nakedfrog

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I didn’t realize how low quality streaming generally is vs a good blu-ray until I bought Planet Earth 2 somewhat recently, last year I think. The latter looks absurdly better than anything I have ever watched on my LG OLED.

That said I almost exclusively use streaming to watch things. I only have a few blu-rays even despite the quality difference mostly because I typically don’t watch movies or TV more than once. Also I’m not particularly picky once it looks and sounds good enough.
Those BBC Attenborough docs look fucking phenomenal in 4K, I haven't seen anything that rivals them.
 
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purbeast0

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https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0967XXVH2?th=1 $1,199
XGIMI Horizon Pro 4K Projector, 2200 ANSI Lumens, Android TV 10.0 Movie Projector with Integrated Harman Kardon Speakers, Auto Keystone Screen Adaption Home Theater Projector
Review -

As posted here.. https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/4k-led-projector-for-1-200-can-shoot-sideways.2614214/
That is not a true 4k projector. There are a bunch of "4k" projectors in that price range and I don't want any of them. I want one that is native 4k if I make the switch, and with minimal input lag because I game on mine and play fighters.
 

Tech Junky

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Jan 27, 2022
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1691615510264.png

I've tried native and pixel shift options and they're about the same other than the price for some of them. Buying these things though is like buying a car in terms of depreciation right now since things are moving quickly with new tech. This is why I recommend something around $2K as a hard limit since they're pricing is all over the place and drops significantly often through different promos.
 
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purbeast0

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Sep 13, 2001
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View attachment 84218

I've tried native and pixel shift options and they're about the same other than the price for some of them. Buying these things though is like buying a car in terms of depreciation right now since things are moving quickly with new tech. This is why I recommend something around $2K as a hard limit since they're pricing is all over the place and drops significantly often through different promos.
There aren't any true 4k projectors in the $2k price range yet.

At least not when I last looked a few months ago.
 

Tech Junky

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2022
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There aren't any true 4k projectors in the $2k price range yet.

At least not when I last looked a few months ago.
There are. The PX1/Pro both hit $2K if you keep an eye on them.

I wouldn't buy from them unless it's a really good deal but, they have a listing at the bottom for under $2k.
1691617320748.png
1691617511570.png
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,454
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There are. The PX1/Pro both hit $2K if you keep an eye on them.

I wouldn't buy from them unless it's a really good deal but, they have a listing at the bottom for under $2k.
View attachment 84220
View attachment 84222
Those are not native 4k projectors. A quick google search will tell you that.

The PX1-Pro is not a native 4K projector but rather mates a Texas Instruments DLP chip with a super-fast four-way pixel shifting mirror to fool your eyes into thinking they're watching native 4K—and convincingly so.

This is also another reason I hate these god damn buzzwords.
 

Tech Junky

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This is also another reason I hate these god damn buzzwords.
Well, I had the PJ90 https://www.projectorcentral.com/NexiGo-PJ90.htm -- single laser

And I couldn't get it to focus correctly for the life of me and it caused some literal headaches where the PX series has been a 180 from that experience. I wouldn't get too caught up in the whole Native VS Pixel shifting. The higher priority is 3 lasers and not dealing with the color wheel / sampling you see with the single laser based units.



Then there's the whole ALPD version / Rec 709 / Bt 2020. Let's put it this way unless you're seeing them in person and going based off the spec sheet and reviews you'll get pissed with your $3K device. I'm taking these on 30-90 day spins to see how they fair before making a decision on which one to keep long term. It's going to take some time to figure out which one looks the best in your environment. You'll want your own 2023 shootout to evaluate these things because they're not standardized like a TV. They all look the same for the most part but they have personalities. I've spent hours sifting trough the specs to narrow things down and have a short list of potential candidates to still test and see how they fair.

The market though isn't doing much at the moment for new hardware. Maybe that will change with the coming spending season? Who knows... there's no traditional release schedule that I've been able to come up as they randomly pop up on the market. Now, if you don't want the UST and can stand putting it further away from the screen/wall then there are some other 4K native options and they're also brighter but, that comes with their own drawbacks.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
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I have absolutely no interest in short throw projectors personally. I noticed that is pretty much all you keep linking.

I also have a very hard time believing that is a real 4k projector.

Even this article says the Sony VPL-XW5000ES is the only one under $6k.

 
Dec 10, 2005
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Streaming is often fine for me for everyday things where I care a little bit about the quality, but would likely never watch more than once or twice. However, I have come across some streaming that just serves to piss everyone off - looking at you YouTube/Google Play (can't stream HD rentals in most web browsers, and they don't exactly tell you that).

I used to have a collection of DVDs, and I long ago ripped them to build up a nice little digital library managed with Kodi (the DVDs have since been tossed, given the need and desire to shed physical stuff that wasn't being used in a move). And I have started to rip some Blu-ray that we have, once I found Kodi can handle them perfectly and pass the HD audio to my receiver. That's an ongoing project, but well worth it, given that MKV files don't have unskippable garbage, and there is no lag in pause/resume like you sometimes get with a Blu-ray on a PC.


As for music, I would like to see options for flac files, but there seems to be regional issues with that as well.
There are some services that give you a choice of file format. From some bands I listen to, you can get flac from their Bandcamp pages; sometimes, they let you get flac files when a digital download is included with a vinyl as well. I doubt you'll ever see a big digital music seller move in that direction though.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
59,067
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If a band isn't on bandcamp, I mostly likely won't buy it. I download flac, then transcode it to vorbis. I've started transcoding to opus as a trial, and it seems to be ok for the most part.
 

Tech Junky

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2022
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no interest in short throw projectors
Well, then I'll stop producing those results and let you be in a quandary. I haven't put much research into regular and short throw since they don't suit what I'm looking for. I can say though you'll get better pictures with those bulbs vs laser as far as brightness goes. Bulb replacements are going to add up though.
 

waffleironhead

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
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I used to be strictly physical media. I have a large DVD/Bluray collection. For the last few years, entirely purchased used from redbox kiosks. Near perfect condition media for $3-5 each. Though my bluray player just died so i need to look into replacing that.
Then moved onto streaming from my ipad to my tv using an hdmi adapter. Quality was not as good, but livable. Just recently had fiber installed at the house and am now entirely streaming. I have quite a few years of prime and disney backlogs to make it thru.
Not really interested in purchasing digital copies of anything.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,454
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Well, then I'll stop producing those results and let you be in a quandary. I haven't put much research into regular and short throw since they don't suit what I'm looking for. I can say though you'll get better pictures with those bulbs vs laser as far as brightness goes. Bulb replacements are going to add up though.
I'm not in a quandary lol. I've already said I'm not getting em until they drop in price and that I'm in no rush.

My current projector is a DLP and I've had it since 2012. I've replaced the bulb probably 3 times since then. It ain't cheap though.