The Future of PC Gaming?

[T101]

Skace: LOL, no I am not ignorant of them. But they still fall into the FPS, TBS, MMORPG and RTS concepts. And I want more than this. And your list have some that deviate from this. I hope that this will continue in the future, more titles that are not FPS, TBS, MMORPG and RTS.

 

[Seeruk]

It's important to define different types of innovation too.

There is creative innovation i.e. the creation of a totally new or perhaps (less so) hybrid genre - this is not really possible any more as every genre has been battered to death!

Then there is technical innovation and some of that is dependent on hardware at both the players end and the server end (if it exists).

Using FPS as an example you could look at:

Number of players supported:
Doom for multiplayer gaming then..
Supporting 32 players Operation Flashpoint
Supporting 150 players in an FPS like JO
Support almost infinite players in an FPS like Planetside.

Supporting gazillions of players - Ultima Online

Note: I can't think of a console FPS that supports more than 16 players online?

Introducing Vehicles into a single player FPS game (Battlezone)

Introducing Vehicles into a Multiplayer game (OFP or H&D?)

Then there is the sort of genre merging innovations like Taking an FPS perspective and putting into a MMORPG - Asherons Call?

BF2 I like for their attempt to mix a little RTS (commander Mode) into an online Frag Fest

Half-life for introducing scripted storyline into a Fragfest.

And perhaps the most ambitious ever attempted - the War FPS/MMORPG was attempted by WWII Online (which is still developed and played today) at a time when people were all on 56k modems still and PC power was about 10% of what it is today!

It's just impossible to see anything like the examples above ever happening first on a console or even at all (in some cases) !!!

 

[skace]

Well, you have to ask yourself, "Why does the PC have so many FPS games" and the answer is clear. FPS is not just a genre but it is a way of thinking. It is the emergence of putting the player into the world and creating reality around him. Technically you can have FPS sports games and FPS adventure games they just havn't been pulled off with any success yet. Once you put the player inside a single body and build the world around that character, you can do ANYTHING. That is the reason this genre is so popular... because it is the future.

Edit: Oh, yea and incase you are wondering, I am totally psyched for everything that is coming out within the next month. It's going to be AWESOME. I've been playing video games since moria, rogue and the original King's Quest and I still look forward to many PC releases every year.

Yea Seeruk, I completely agree with you. The FPS genre is still an infant and ideas will continue to funnel into it. I really am looking forward to a time when RPGs make better use of the FPS perspective, Dark Messiah may pull it off, but it may also miss by a long shot.

 

[T101]

True, we have to differentiate between different innovations. But what I mean is that I want innovation when it comes to game concept (how the game is played) as well as focus on game-play (feeling of the game, story, and "mood") instead of just putting out game after game where the only innovation is technical (graphical).

 

[T101]

Originally posted by: skace
Well, you have to ask yourself, "Why does the PC have so many FPS games" and the answer is clear. FPS is not just a genre but it is a way of thinking. It is the emergence of putting the player into the world and creating reality around him. Technically you can have FPS sports games and FPS adventure games they just havn't been pulled off with any success yet. Once you put the player inside a single body and build the world around that character, you can do ANYTHING. That is the reason this genre is so popular... because it is the future.

Edit: Oh, yea and incase you are wondering, I am totally psyched for everything that is coming out within the next month. It's going to be AWESOME. I've been playing video games since moria, rogue and the original King's Quest and I still look forward to many PC releases every year.

Yea Seeruk, I completely agree with you. The FPS genre is still an infant and ideas will continue to funnel into it. I really am looking forward to a time when RPGs make better use of the FPS perspective, Dark Messiah may pull it off, but it may also miss by a long shot.

I hope you are right. But so far, there have been little else than technical innovation when it comes to FPS. Boiling Point is the first I think that is rather unique, combining RPG with FPS shooter. However, it is extremely poorly done (very many bugs).

 

[Seeruk]

Originally posted by: T101
True, we have to differentiate between different innovations. But what I mean is that I want innovation when it comes to game concept (how the game is played) as well as focus on game-play (feeling of the game, story, and "mood") instead of just putting out game after game where the only innovation is technical (graphical).

I know what you are saying, but don't ya see that all the concepts are bound by the hardware available and the API's developers are able to call on.

The reason FPS's never existed before doom (not completely true)? Because there was no hardware capable of drawing vertices and and textures so quickly.Each progression is bound by the hardware. Naturally that means there is no possibilty of a leap in one area or another on a console because its hardware is bound and only the PC is progressively in a state of evolution with the cutting edge hardware required.

A truly innovative game (no matter what sort of innovation) takes a very very long time to make. Longer than the typical console lifecycle and thus it can't happen!

But in terms of concept I know exactly what you are saying - a small example is a football (soccer) game in development where you do not control the entire team, you are one of the players in a 1st person perspective and are reliant on the other members of the team (how awesome would this be multiplayer with 21 others 😀 )

That's the kind of thing we like to see.... I just wish I had the coding knowledge to have done this when I first thought of it about 9 years ago in Uni 🙂

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: Seeruk
But in terms of concept I know exactly what you are saying - a small example is a football (soccer) game in development where you do not control the entire team, you are one of the players in a 1st person perspective and are reliant on the other members of the team (how awesome would this be multiplayer with 21 others 😀 )

That's the kind of thing we like to see.... I just wish I had the coding knowledge to have done this when I first thought of it about 9 years ago in Uni 🙂

There was a soccer mod for Quake1 🙂. You could kick either a soccer ball or a gibbed head around the field. There was also a battle chess mod for Quake1. That game had a truly epic mod community.

 

[Seeruk]

Yeah it's a shame that modders these days only mod to different era's it seems. New game types and such are the birth of many types of game we play today (Domination mode used to such effect in Battlefield 1/2, CTF in almost every FPS ever, etc)

What I would REALLY love to see would be TeamFortressClassic:Source but I don't reckon it's likely 🙁

 

[stnicralisk]

Originally posted by: T101

Originally posted by: dighn
You seem to be forgetting genres like sport games, fighting games, single player RPGs, adventure games etc. Consoles are definitely not behind PCs there.

Exactly. Those are the games you never see on the PC anymore. And that really what I miss about PC gaming. PC gaming today is FPS, RTS and MMORPG. And these three genres are rehashed so much, that I do only consider playing about 1 out of 10 games, due to the fact that it is the same old stuff in a new package (read new graphics).

The last Fighting game, for example, I saw on the PC was Virtua Fighter, back in 95...

Sports: PC gets all the Madden games, SP RPG: revamped Fable anyone, Adventure: Prince of Persia series

So youre right that PC doesnt get all the newest Tekken games but honestly I grew out of those in high school.

 

[stnicralisk]

Originally posted by: skace
Indigo Prophecy - 9/20/2005
X-Men Legends 2 - 9/20/2005
Fable: The Lost Chapters - 9/20/2005
Myst 5: End of Ages - 9/20/2005
Ultimate Spider-Man - 9/22/2005 (Iffy)
Bet on Soldier - 9/26/2005 (Iffy)
Rome: Total War - Barb Invasion - 9/27/2005
Earth 2160 - 10/1/2005
Black and White 2 - 10/4/2005
Serious Sam 2 - 10/10/2005
Quake 4 - 10/11/2005
X3 - 10/17/2005
FEAR - 10/18/2005
Age of Empires 3 - 10/18/2005
Civilization 4 - 10/24/2005
Call of Duty 2 - 10/25/2005

Those are the release dates for all those games? I want eleven of those!!! I just made a trade with someone so I could get Riddick. MY WIFE IS GOING TO KILL ME! 🙂

 

[Malladine]

I'm not buying a console and will continue to purchase pc games...if that's any indication of anything 🙂

And to the guy who said pcs for fps and consoles for everything else, eh? RTS and imo TBS too are pc only genres and a larges ones at that.

 

[T101]

Originally posted by: stnicralisk
So youre right that PC doesnt get all the newest Tekken games but honestly I grew out of those in high school.

Not that I play fighting games even on the consoles that much, but I would still like to have the option to play them on the PC, since I once in a while like to play one for a few minutes.

And I would really have liked to play Last Ninja 4 on the PC, since I really like the series on the C64 with it's combination of adventure/fighting. But that got canceled for the PC, and became a console exclusive.

Game developers should really check out some of the mods created for certain FPS engines, as it seems that true innovation regarding game-play, seems to be truly alive amongst the modding community.

I would love to see a game inspired by Mad Max 2 - The Roadwarrior, where you raced through the wasteland, in multiplayer, competing with and blowing up your opponents. Something that would totally be possible with current game engines and technology.

Also, something that I truly miss is the cooperative game-play in games. Think about how much more fun it would be playing FarCry cooperative with some friends, or HL2 for example. As it is now, this falls on the moding community to handle.

 

[T101]

Originally posted by: Malladine
I'm not buying a console and will continue to purchase pc games...if that's any indication of anything 🙂

Same here. I do not want to get a next gen console. I want to play all kinds of games on my PC instead. The hardware and the capabilities are there on the PC. It all comes down to the willingness of the game developers to make the games for the PC. And the old "we can not use a keyboard and a mouse for controls" is getting old, get a new tune. I do not belive there is any control-system that you can _not_ do with a keyboard and mouse. It is the most flexible controler there is.

 

[Malladine]

I think it would be a real shame to lose the pc gaming platform. A real shame. It would be reasonable to assume that if I think this, so do other gamers and some of those gamers are developers.

My fear is that publishers will decide and we all know their only loyalty is to the $.

 

[BespinReactorShaft]

Firstly, there's an active thread related to this going on in the Video forum right now.

Why can't the PC and console worlds just... get along? 🙂

I fancy the idea of the future PC having an optional "gaming subsystem" that's an evolution from the console. Or vice versa.

 

[T101]

True, their loyalty is to the $, and I think this is partially the reason why we do not see new innovation on the PC platform. No-one dares create an innovative game, for the fear that it will not sell well. And as such, they copy what has come before, and hope that it will sell on a market that is becoming overfed with games that do not differ that much if you look at the basics (changes are mostly cosmetic).

 

[T101]

Hoping against all hope, it would be a good future if titles would be released on both PC, Xbox360 and PS3. The only drawback to this is that the PC evolves, while the Consoles does not. Which means that we would have to live with old graphics and engines until a new generation of consoles was released, since I do not think that many developers would spend the additional time needed to make the PC version shine over the console versions.

 

[Seeruk]

Just look at small developers, they are the only ones who dare to innovate because it is the only way to make a splash and get signed up by a big publishing house and/or make their name. Most recent example, CCP - Eve Online

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: jfall
PC for FPS, console for everything else

What about RTS?

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: Avalon
Both the consoles and PCs are starting to rehash titles way too much, IMO. Everything released seems to have a number after it these days. I guess the creative idea pool is running low.

Yep. Most of the titles that aren't sequels are such blatant rip offs they might as well be.

Both consoles and PCs just aren't seeing any new ideas. It seems like every title that has real promise gets canceled.

Development costs are higher now, but I blame it on pressure to just release popular games and avoid taking risks.

 

[xboxist]

Originally posted by: Avalon
Both the consoles and PCs are starting to rehash titles way too much, IMO. Everything released seems to have a number after it these days. I guess the creative idea pool is running low.

There's a ton of creativity out there. However, good luck trying to find a publisher these days that is willing to spend money on it and take the "risk" of it being a sales flop. There's more security in titles that are on sequel #18. Stupid people keep buying the crap, even though you and I both know that the series is old and stale.

Look what happens when a developer takes a chance and makes a unique, solid game:

Beyond Good and Evil -- great game, horrible sales flop
Eternal Darkness -- one of the best games for the Gamecube, horrible sales

Armfuls of more examples available.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: dighn

Originally posted by: Seeruk
I hate console gaming with a passion! Nothing is innovated on the console, it's done on the PC 1st, and then a few years later the consoles catch up.

The only thing a console has innovated is the platform game (although an old-school PC called the Sinclair Spectrum seemed to have Manic Miner and Jetpac Willy!) and Pong.

The console is just a big fat dumbed down PC and the games reflect it

What console FPS has 64-150 players (like JO / BF2)
What console has a true MMORPG (like WoW or the upcoming ones such as Middle Earth Online or Vanguard)
What console has a decent RTS (Rome Total War, AOE series)

The answer is none, but in 5 years time when the next-next-gen consoles are out I will be patronised about how I should be excited about such 'groundbreaking' games on on a gamepad.

Step back 5 years and we had games such as OFP, C&C series, Asheron's Call, which still consoles can't do.

I could give you a list of true gaming firsts that would not be possible on a console (and still aren't) but I am limited by time as I am at work.

I'll leave it with the statement that consoles are cash cows for the herd to throw their money on sequels and yet-again's.

You seem to be forgetting genres like sport games, fighting games, single player RPGs, adventure games etc. Consoles are definitely not behind PCs there.

I suppose. But with the exception of a few single player rpgs those genre's all bore me to tears. Sports games are the biggest rehash fest ever...with a steady populous of people willing to pay $50 for the same game they bought last year with a couple new names in it. Fighting games are pretty meh...memorizing combos and button mashing never appealed to me for any length of time. And most of the single player asian style RPGs I like are on the unpopular nintendo console...well, I guess I'm just thinking of zelda here.

I'd argue the PC is the king of western style RPGs still, or at the very least still a serious contender.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: xboxist

Originally posted by: Avalon
Both the consoles and PCs are starting to rehash titles way too much, IMO. Everything released seems to have a number after it these days. I guess the creative idea pool is running low.

There's a ton of creativity out there. However, good luck trying to find a publisher these days that is willing to spend money on it and take the "risk" of it being a sales flop. There's more security in titles that are on sequel #18. Stupid people keep buying the crap, even though you and I both know that the series is old and stale.

Look what happens when a developer takes a chance and makes a unique, solid game:

Beyond Good and Evil -- great game, horrible sales flop
Eternal Darkness -- one of the best games for the Gamecube, horrible sales

Armfuls of more examples available.

Yeah its sad...there are lots of good games that no one bought. And lots of terrible games that everyone bought.

 

[makken]

Originally posted by: Seeruk
...
What console has a true MMORPG (like WoW or the upcoming ones such as Middle Earth Online or Vanguard)...

Wasn't FFXI released for the PS2 before the PC?

Originally posted by: T101
You may argue that they are not done because there can be no improvement. That may be so. But I still think that it would have value to keep these type of games floating, even if the only advance is in the graphics area. Otherwise I fear that gaming on the PC are going the way that the RTS genre has gone. For, hand over your heart, can you really say that there have been any innovation in that genre? How many RTS do not follow the standard Warcraft3 formula? and just how many of these ****** games are there? I can only think of one that differs somewhat; WH40K: Dawn of War. And that is not by much.

Though a little bit older, look into Ground Control 1 and 2, and Homeworld 1 and 2. Definately not your run-of-the-mill RTS'

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: dighn

Originally posted by: Seeruk
I hate console gaming with a passion! Nothing is innovated on the console, it's done on the PC 1st, and then a few years later the consoles catch up.

The only thing a console has innovated is the platform game (although an old-school PC called the Sinclair Spectrum seemed to have Manic Miner and Jetpac Willy!) and Pong.

The console is just a big fat dumbed down PC and the games reflect it

What console FPS has 64-150 players (like JO / BF2)
What console has a true MMORPG (like WoW or the upcoming ones such as Middle Earth Online or Vanguard)
What console has a decent RTS (Rome Total War, AOE series)

The answer is none, but in 5 years time when the next-next-gen consoles are out I will be patronised about how I should be excited about such 'groundbreaking' games on on a gamepad.

Step back 5 years and we had games such as OFP, C&C series, Asheron's Call, which still consoles can't do.

I could give you a list of true gaming firsts that would not be possible on a console (and still aren't) but I am limited by time as I am at work.

I'll leave it with the statement that consoles are cash cows for the herd to throw their money on sequels and yet-again's.

You seem to be forgetting genres like sport games, fighting games, single player RPGs, adventure games etc. Consoles are definitely not behind PCs there.

I suppose. But with the exception of a few single player rpgs those genre's all bore me to tears. Sports games are the biggest rehash fest ever...with a steady populous of people willing to pay $50 for the same game they bought last year with a couple new names in it. Fighting games are pretty meh...memorizing combos and button mashing never appealed to me for any length of time. And most of the single player asian style RPGs I like are on the unpopular nintendo console...well, I guess I'm just thinking of zelda here.

I'd argue the PC is the king of western style RPGs still, or at the very least still a serious contender.

I'm not a big RPG player, so I'm not quite sure I understand this whole asian / eastern RPG thing, but the best RPG's I've seen have always been on the console-- Final Fantasy (all of them), KOTOR, Fable, Jade Empire...

 

[Seeruk]

I just have to point out that FFXI is

a) Quite possibly the worst excuse for a MMORPG I have even seen or played (and thats a lot!)
b) Hardly groudbreaking whe it followed a zillion PC MMORPGs and had about 10% of the scope and features!