The future of IP

[Hayabusa Rider]

Yeah we'd probably still have some serious art without the profit motive, but purely commercial "art" has value as entertainment as well. That's something that would dry up very quickly without financial incentive.

I think that if everyone could have everything they could want it would be a disaster. Not everyone has the talent to create in a way that is generally appreciated. No goals, no struggle, no reason to strive, no real challenge for most. Pointless accumulation. IP would be the least of our concern.

 

[cybrsage]

Name the five greatest artists of all times and then name one of them that actually got paid any decent amount for his works.

If everyone was able to make a decent living regardless, you'd find that there would be more good art as they wouldn't need to starve while creating it.

Do you know how little artistic freedom there is amongst those who are paid to produce it? i'd say it's about less than one tenth of a promille that is actually artistic freedom and 99.99999% what sells to the average idiot.

I understand what you are saying...but imagine how much worse it would be if no one ever got paid for it.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

I think that if everyone could have everything they could want it would be a disaster. Not everyone has the talent to create in a way that is generally appreciated. No goals, no struggle, no reason to strive, no real challenge for most. Pointless accumulation. IP would be the least of our concern.

Why? Everyone would get what they wanted.

It's not like i don't get your point, it's the pain to get there that makes it worth it and the things that you experience is what makes your life worthwhile, i get it, i really do.

I'm just not so sure that there are not trillions of people trying to avoid just that every day and that this could be for those people.

I know you value your experiences, so do i, not everyone is like you and me though.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Why? Everyone would get what they wanted.

It's not like i don't get your point, it's the pain to get there that makes it worth it and the things that you experience is what makes your life worthwhile, i get it, i really do.

I'm just not so sure that there are not trillions of people trying to avoid just that every day and that this could be for those people.

I know you value your experiences, so do i, not everyone is like you and me though.

I'm thinking of the long term when people get what their parents had and what they had and while the economics change what do bored people do? No great causes to make the lives of people better. Sure some would thrive and could add but how would the adage of "necessity is the mother of invention" work when need is gone? Perhaps it's just me but it's not just the good things which make our character but adversity challenged and overcome. The end result is a society which doesn't need it's individuals. What happens when we have no point? I'm not sure how the human psyche would adapt. Adapt we will, but I'm not sure about the result on the human spirit.

 

[BoberFett]

No I'm also thinking about sourcing bird sounds from Indonesia, corvettes, nuclear explosions, the sound the ropes make in a boxing ring and contact mic'ing plexiglass as it moves thru dirt.

All of which are clearly vital the survival of the human race.

Sorry, but IP law involves things far more important than you'll ever be involved in.

 

[JSt0rm]

All of which are clearly vital the survival of the human race.

Sorry, but IP law involves things far more important than you'll ever be involved in.

I do the work that I do because I enjoy it. "the survival of the human race" is above my pay grade and I don't care.

ip law affects the work that i do so its important to me.

 

[BoberFett]

This discussion is going off the rails, so I'll attempt to get it back on track.

Right now the discussion revolves around people stealing movies and music.

Tomorrow it will be about people stealing inconsequential (to society, maybe not to the creator) things such as games and toys.

What about the future? What if instant fabrication becomes a reality? What if the future of home building is a giant 3D printer that is placed on the ground and a few days later, boom. New home. Think of the affect that could have on society. Now imagine that such ideas will be hampered by the fact that even though homes could be created quickly and easily, increasing availability and decreasing cost, that somewhere up the food chain is some "intellectual property" owner who says that "printing" out that home without paying him a huge sum is a crime.

In the past, people who owned property were kings. Does the future make intellectual property owners kings? Why is a monopoly on a physical item considered bad, but a monopoly on an idea is considered good?

 

[hal2kilo]

I'm fairly sure creative minds would still be working on things and there would still be a demand for it.

Not everyone is driven by profits, in fact, none of the best artists have ever been driven by profits, they never did get rich in their own lifetime.

Although true for the most part, for example Picasso was quite wealthy when he died. Of course he was also probably one of the most prolific artists to have lived.

 

[BoberFett]

I do the work that I do because I enjoy it. "the survival of the human race" is above my pay grade and I don't care.

ip law affects the work that i do so its important to me.

And then you wonder why nobody cares about IP law.

Hey, it doesn't affect me.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

We use USB hardware keys with software we develop/sell. It stops thieves dead in their track.........:biggrin:

 

[BoberFett]

We use USB hardware keys with software we develop/sell. It stops thieves dead in their track.........:biggrin:

Yeah, I'm sure you think it does...

 

[hal2kilo]

The lengh of patents should be limited. As much as patents spur inovation, having them last a long time also limits inovation. Copyrights should die with the author.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

No one has broke one yet. Clients don't have multiple copies running in their plants.

 

[BoberFett]

The lengh of patents should be limited. As much as patents spur inovation, having them last a long time also limits inovation. Copyrights should die with the author.

I don't know about that, there shouldn't necessarily be an incentive to kill artists. However the term should be far more limited than it is now. If a 14 year copyright was a long enough period of time to recoup your investment more than 200 years ago, when it took a book or letter weeks to make it's way around the world, then it's certainly a long enough period of time to make your money off of your work in an age when several hours of audio and video can be sent around the world in seconds. If anything copyright should be shorter today.

 

[BoberFett]

No one has broke one yet. Clients don't have multiple copies running in their plants.

It may simply not be worth it. Hackers get around state-of-the-art "unbreakable" DRM all the time. You may be such a small target that nobody really cares, and some company isn't going to spend $100K in reverse engineering costs to save themselves a $10K license.

But don't fool yourself into thinking that you're uncrackable. It's simply a matter of cost/benefit.

 

[Anarchist420]

I understand what you are saying...but imagine how much worse it would be if no one ever got paid for it.

People could get paid without IP they just wouldn't be guaranteed to be paid. Basically, what IP does is it socializes (i.e. nationalizes/globalizes) losses and it privatizes profits.

IP needs to be abolished. IP is a load of Hamiltonian Keynesian National Socialist fuckery.

 

[JSt0rm]

Yeah, I'm sure you think it does...

Actually all of my software is tied to a hardware usb "lock". They did have a problem about 2 years ago with some hackers emulating it. Almost destroyed the plug in industry. Everything is back on track now and luckily I dont think many places closed. However there have been fewer new products as people held new software instead of releasing it into that environment.

 

[BoberFett]

Actually all of my software is tied to a hardware usb "lock". They did have a problem about 2 years ago with some hackers emulating it. Almost destroyed the plug in industry. Everything is back on track now and luckily I dont think many places closed. However there have been fewer new products as people held new software instead of releasing it into that environment.

It may be protected for now, but it's really just playing a game of whack-a-mole. It will be cracked again someday, and a new system will need to be created.

Look at DRM. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray were supposed to be epitome of protection. Whoops.

 

[JSt0rm]

It may be protected for now, but it's really just playing a game of whack-a-mole. It will be cracked again someday, and a new system will need to be created.

Look at DRM. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray were supposed to be epitome of protection. Whoops.

I just got done saying it was cracked. Now it isnt though. They revamped the whole system. The last one lasted 10 years and people were trying, hard.

But when it does happen that will be the end of the plug in industry. Because people would rather take then pay for anything and that industry is tiny.

Hopefully we will get meaningful changes to how the internet functions. We can look back on this period like we do the wild west.

 

[BoberFett]

I just got done saying it was cracked. Now it isnt though. They revamped the whole system. The last one lasted 10 years and people were trying, hard.

What was so confusing? You said it was cracked but fixed again. I'm saying that it's fixed for now, but will be cracked again someday. And the cycle continues.

And if the plugin industry was almost destroyed due to piracy, that wasn't a function of M0rph3us1995 in his mom's basement playing around with video production software. That was a function of people in your industry - people who insist on being paid for their work and probably complain about movie piracy as loudly as you - pirating their tools.

And if the Internet ever gets fixed to the way you like it, that will mean the internet is fundamentally broken. Universal DRM and trusted computing will be the end of free society, just so a few people at the top can maintain control. That's a far worse future than a couple movies getting downloaded.

 

[JSt0rm]

What was so confusing? You said it was cracked but fixed again. I'm saying that it's fixed for now, but will be cracked again someday. And the cycle continues.

And if the plugin industry was almost destroyed due to piracy, that wasn't a function of M0rph3us1995 in his mom's basement playing around with video production software. That was a function of people in your industry - people who insist on being paid for their work and probably complain about movie piracy as loudly as you - pirating their tools.

I use the same tools as in the music industry. Most money in the industry is made off hobby players and they are the ones who have chosen to download hacked copies. I am almost 100% sure somebody somewhere who makes money off their work also used pirated software, unfortunately.

And if the Internet ever gets fixed to the way you like it, that will mean the internet is fundamentally broken. Universal DRM and trusted computing will be the end of free society, just so a few people at the top can maintain control. That's a far worse future than a couple movies getting downloaded.

Thats your opinion.

 

[Infohawk]

We will need trademark protections for some time to come but I think the world should start experimenting with alternatives to the patent and copyright systems.

 

[JSt0rm]

We will need trademark protections for some time to come but I think the world should start experimenting with alternatives to the patent and copyright systems.

But whatever we do with patents and copy writes they wont affect consumers. consumers will still need to pay for content. What that can and will affect are businesses and how they innovate not some zero downloading every movie in his moms basement.

 

[momeNt]

Has it occurred to anybody that a great majority of the people who pirate software, movies, games wouldn't acquire the games UNLESS they were free? Hence no revenue lost because every pirate would not be willing to pay anything for the product?

Obviously the argument changes if we talk about companies stealing IP, but to that I simply say, how can you own something that is in my mind? IP falls outside of traditional physical property rights for this very reason.

 

[Doppel]

This is quite an interesting concept really, 3D printing of physical things. IP is illegal but also easy. However, manufacturing something yourself is so hard that nobody seems to car (unless you sell knock-offs), but what if you can manufacture to spec all yourself without any money to the original designer.