The French military actually did something

[Scotteq]

How do you know the plane didnt land because the french planes were in the area? Oh you dont. And the french went in first so they did take the lead. But you know the republicans will do well if this thing turns into a shit sandwich. I'm sure if you prey for power enough your god will hear you and make it into shit.

All humor aside (and it *is* funny they didn't actually shoot anything down) - A Rafale is a first line fighter, and needs to be cautious around precious few other aircraft in any country's arsenal. Least of all Libya. I'm more inclined to believe the French could have blown it out of the air almost straight away. But made the decision to let the Libyan pilot walk; then destroyed the offending airframe in order to give him and his buddies a nice smoking hole in the ground to stare at for a few days. Tends to make one think before strapping on another aircraft.

This demonstrates to me a VERY high level of command, control, and discipline.


But whatever - Please - Far be it from me to rain on your partisan indignation.





Also - Prey is the stuff that predators eat. "Pray" is what the food does in the hopes that God will send the predators elsewhere.

While hilarious at first sight, I believe this is actually air war doctrine in a number of militaries - that is, to make use of the known delta of your fuel capacity versus your opponent's. I believe the U.S. shot down a large number of MiGs in Vietnam by simply prolonging the dogfight to the point where the MiG had to turn and head home due to low fuel, only to be blasted out of the air.

Per the above - I don't doubt it.

 

[Broheim]

A typical soldier in the Foreign Legion could probably kill any one of the above posters bare-handed with arm tied behind his back. They're some serious bad-asses.

This

a staff sergent in my old battalion served for many years in the foreign legion and he is one serious motherfucker.

sure it's fun to call the french a bunch of surrender monkeys, but they can muster up almost 1 million troops should the need ever arise, they have the third largest standing army in NATO.

 

[Nebor]

I worked with a number of French officers including special forces officers in Afghanistan. They were no joke: In incredible shape, smart and well trained. BUT they were very exclusive, usually spoke in French to the exclusion of everyone else around them, and seemed to look down on most other ISAF members. They also treated the Afghans as downright inhuman.

 

[JSt0rm]

But whatever - Please - Far be it from me to rain on your partisan indignation.

Yeah I'm the partisan. The neocons on this board come into any thread about this thing to poopoo it. The retardation of the right would be hilarious if they didn't have such a large voting block.

 

[Texashiker]

sure it's fun to call the french a bunch of surrender monkeys, but they can muster up almost 1 million troops should the need ever arise, they have the third largest standing army in NATO.

Ok, I have to call BS on that one, are there a million white flags in France? I think not. Maybe if they strip every bed of their sheets and tear the sheets into white flags, maybe then.

Logic says that France must have 2 white flags for every solider serving - just in case he losses 1. Or, 1 flag for each hand.

I do not think the French Foreign Legion counts as a real French military unit - they can not serve on French soul, and their composed of non-french citizens. Maybe the reason why the Foreign Legion is so good, is because there are very few French in the legion.

 

[Scotteq]

Yeah I'm the partisan. The neocons on this board come into any thread about this thing to poopoo it. The retardation of the right would be hilarious if they didn't have such a large voting block.

< shrug >

Spew all you like - If GWB had done exactly the same thing you'd be screaming from the rafters about him being a war criminal. I'm just amused at how (offensively) defensive you guys are now that your guy is not only pursuing many of the same policies, but also opening new cans of worms.

Has President Obama officially consulted Congress yet? Last I checked, he didn't.


Personally, I'm of the point of view that - inevitably - The needs of the Office Of President dicate what gets done. The only question is which principals get tossed out with what bathwater.

 

[sunzt]

< shrug >

Spew all you like - If GWB had done exactly the same thing you'd be screaming from the rafters about him being a war criminal. I'm just amused at how (offensively) defensive you guys are now that your guy is not only pursuing many of the same policies, but also opening new cans of worms.

I'm pretty sure that if GWB had a UN mandate with arab support and something other than his sketchy "intelligence" that liberals would be more supportive of the Iraq war. It also would have been nice to see a national movement in Iraq to overthrow Saddam. I mean, other than the conditions above, Iraq and Libya are essentially the same!

 

[JSt0rm]

< shrug >

Spew all you like - If GWB had done exactly the same thing you'd be screaming from the rafters about him being a war criminal. I'm just amused at how (offensively) defensive you guys are now that your guy is not only pursuing many of the same policies, but also opening new cans of worms.

Has President Obama officially consulted Congress yet? Last I checked, he didn't.


Personally, I'm of the point of view that - inevitably - The needs of the Office Of President dicate what gets done. The only question is which principals get tossed out with what bathwater.

oh shut up. The iraq war was built on lies and the "coalition of the willing" were countries strong armed by us to go in. If you cant see the difference here maybe you should rethink your life because your cognitive dissonance is stronger then the majority of people in this country.

We al understand WHY your side is dumping on this. Its like with every other issue that comes up. Your side wants to compare obama to bush, the reason to do this is to show that republicans arent as bad as democrats and its a idiotic stance to take.

 

[JSt0rm]

I'm pretty sure that if GWB had a UN mandate with arab support and something other than his sketchy "intelligence" that liberals would be more supportive of the Iraq war. It also would have been nice to see a national movement in Iraq to overthrow Saddam. I mean, other than the conditions above, Iraq and Libya are essentially the same!

lol. These guys are idiots eh? Fucking unreal how stupid they are.

 

[Scotteq]

oh shut up. The iraq war was built on lies and the "coalition of the willing" were countries strong armed by us to go in. If you cant see the difference here maybe you should rethink your life because your cognitive dissonance is stronger then the majority of people in this country.

We al understand WHY your side is dumping on this. Its like with every other issue that comes up. Your side wants to compare obama to bush, the reason to do this is to show that republicans arent as bad as democrats and its a idiotic stance to take.

J - I'm an independent. *Neither* side is "My" side. And your indignation only tells me that my remarks were on target.


GWB doesn't consult Congress, and so he's a War Criminal.

Obama doesn't consult Congress, and that's OK.


If you were consistent with your principals, you'd vilify President Obama too. But you're not. Therefore you are a partisan. We all know this - the least you can do is be honest enough to admit it.

 

[werepossum]

How do you know the plane didnt land because the french planes were in the area? Oh you dont. And the french went in first so they did take the lead. But you know the republicans will do well if this thing turns into a shit sandwich. I'm sure if you prey for power enough your god will hear you and make it into shit.

I don't know whether the plane landed because of French aircraft, but anytime someone announces that they "shot down" an enemy plane only to admit it was in fact on the ground it's funny as hell. It does bother me though, because while I support this mission, I want the USA taking a back seat to Europe for a change. Flying 90% of the ground attack missions is NOT assisting Europe, it's the USA doing a job with Europe saving face. We'll see for sure if/when ground troops are committed, though. IF Europe (particularly France) commits the ground troops, and IF the USA can continue doing an excellent job of rescuing downed pilots and refusing very dangerous missions, then I'll continue supporting the mission even though it's not my preferred method of executing it. I never pray for my country to fail at something unless it's obviously bad for the country, and NEVER in such a way as to cost lives of service members.

And before you make allegations of partisanship, consider that I am supporting Obama as I supported Bush. YOU are supporting Obama whilst continuing to bash Bush, even though he had twice as many nations (even using the non-debunked list of allies here), a cease-fire agreement AND seventeen UN resolutions versus one, and a very clear mission and end conditions as opposed to Obama's mission where the leading country AND the stated goals literally change from day to day, if not hour to hour.

 

[sunzt]

J - I'm an independent. *Neither* side is "My" side. And your indignation only tells me that my remarks were on target.


GWB doesn't consult Congress, and so he's a War Criminal.

Obama doesn't consult Congress, and that's OK.


If you were consistent with your principals, you'd vilify President Obama too. But you're not. Therefore you are a partisan. We all know this - the least you can do is be honest enough to admit it.

I do think that it's way overdue for Obama to ask for approval from congress for military action against Libyan forces. Definitely not cool to be waiting this long to address congress even though he technically has months. I do understand the urgency of the situation last week where waiting for US congressional approval could have mean the end of Benghazi. However, the leaders of France and Britain already talked to their respective congress' and got approval within a few days after strikes started. On this, Obama is "dithering". Bad time to take a tour of South America too...

 

[Throckmorton]

I don't really get the French surrendering jokes.

America surrendered in Vietnam...

 

[Scotteq]

I do think that it's way overdue for Obama to ask for approval from congress for military action against Libyan forces. Definitely not cool to be waiting this long to address congress even though he technically has months. I do understand the urgency of the situation last week where waiting for US congressional approval could have mean the end of Benghazi. However, the leaders of France and Britain already talked to their respective congress' and got approval within a few days after strikes started. On this, Obama is "dithering". Bad time to take a tour of South America too...

On target

 

[JSt0rm]

GWB doesn't consult Congress, and so he's a War Criminal.

Obama doesn't consult Congress, and that's OK.


If you were consistent with your principals, you'd vilify President Obama too. But you're not. Therefore you are a partisan. We all know this - the least you can do is be honest enough to admit it.

Amazing you were able to state my argument and then said I wasn't consistent based on what you wrote. you sir are a master debater. I bow before thee.

 

[Scotteq]

I don't really get the French surrendering jokes.

America surrendered in Vietnam...

A WW1 and WW2 thing...

And we didn't do any better in Vietnam than the French did.

 

[werepossum]

I don't really get the French surrendering jokes.

America surrendered in Vietnam...

No no no! France surrendered in Vietnam, see Din Bin Phu*. We ran in Vietnam, took our toys and went home. Huge difference. Somehow. Hey, if you're not fighting to win, don't fight.

*Unless you're not a Johnson fan, then see Dien Bien Phu.

 

[JSt0rm]

And before you make allegations of partisanship, consider that I am supporting Obama as I supported Bush. YOU are supporting Obama whilst continuing to bash Bush, even though he had twice as many nations (even using the non-debunked list of allies here), a cease-fire agreement AND seventeen UN resolutions versus one, and a very clear mission and end conditions as opposed to Obama's mission where the leading country AND the stated goals literally change from day to day, if not hour to hour.

So you are saying the iraq war was just and worth it?

We are taking the backseat on this one.

Obama has 60 days to get this sorted. Lets talk about him not going to congress AFTER that happens.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

I don't know whether the plane landed because of French aircraft, but anytime someone announces that they "shot down" an enemy plane only to admit it was in fact on the ground it's funny as hell. It does bother me though, because while I support this mission, I want the USA taking a back seat to Europe for a change. Flying 90% of the ground attack missions is NOT assisting Europe, it's the USA doing a job with Europe saving face. We'll see for sure if/when ground troops are committed, though. IF Europe (particularly France) commits the ground troops, and IF the USA can continue doing an excellent job of rescuing downed pilots and refusing very dangerous missions, then I'll continue supporting the mission even though it's not my preferred method of executing it. I never pray for my country to fail at something unless it's obviously bad for the country, and NEVER in such a way as to cost lives of service members.

And before you make allegations of partisanship, consider that I am supporting Obama as I supported Bush. YOU are supporting Obama whilst continuing to bash Bush, even though he had twice as many nations (even using the non-debunked list of allies here), a cease-fire agreement AND seventeen UN resolutions versus one, and a very clear mission and end conditions as opposed to Obama's mission where the leading country AND the stated goals literally change from day to day, if not hour to hour.

Didn't we also vote in congress to authorize force in Iraq? Huge difference....

 

[PsiStar]

You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America’s Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn’t want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named Bush, Dick, and Colon. Need I say more? -Chris Rock

Somehow that seemed slightly pertinent even tho it is a little dated ...

 

[Scotteq]

Amazing you were able to state my argument and then said I wasn't consistent based on what you wrote. you sir are a master debater. I bow before thee.

If you were consistent, you would be vilifying President Obama for opening a new can of worms instead of attacking us.

My view on the matter has already been spelled out:

Personally, I'm of the point of view that - inevitably - The needs of the Office Of President dicate what gets done. The only question is which principals get tossed out with what bathwater.

Which - by some magic originating in your sad sad mind - makes me some kind of Neocon. Maybe you should go out for a nice cup of tea and calm down.

 

[JTsyo]

Yea, and they won and lost plenty of battles?




Two conflicts out of how many?

I'm not up to date on the French military but I believe those were the only ones after WW2 unless you count NATO/collation actions.

 

[Broheim]

Ok, I have to call BS on that one, are there a million white flags in France? I think not. Maybe if they strip every bed of their sheets and tear the sheets into white flags, maybe then.

Logic says that France must have 2 white flags for every solider serving - just in case he losses 1. Or, 1 flag for each hand.

I do not think the French Foreign Legion counts as a real French military unit - they can not serve on French soul, and their composed of non-french citizens. Maybe the reason why the Foreign Legion is so good, is because there are very few French in the legion.

in 2007 french citizen accounted for 23% of the foreign legion and it's commanded by french officers. anyways, the foreign legion accounts for only about 7.700 troops...

 

[JSt0rm]

Maybe you should go out for a nice cup of tea and calm down.

none of this makes me angry. I come here to shit on idiots.

 

[Pocatello]

The French and the Americans lost to the North Vietnamese, but neither was fighting to defend their countries against foreign invaders in foreign wars. The French needed help from the British to defend France from Germany in World War I. The French got completely smashed by the Germans during WW II, again with superior leaderships, tactics and training, both sides had comparable weapons. In the end, the French surrendered their country in just a few weeks without inflicting any serious damage to the German arm forces.