The Forgotten Depression of 1920-21

[hal2kilo]

What. The. Fuck. Is. This?

He's ........ different.

 

[LegendKiller]

He's ........ different.

Yeah, so are people who ride short buses. I guess that explains him.

 

[Jaskalas]

Massive huge socialism is what happened.

Here is a graph of the US military budget.

So we spent a 1/3rd of the entire GDP on military stimulus back then.

Our GDP today is, I'll round up, $15 Trillion so your argument calls for a stimulus package of $5 Trillion. Guess Congress fell short $4.2 Trillion.

 

[PeshakJang]

What else happened in that exact same time frame? Think man Think!

The departure from the gold standard and the beginning of the recovery started well before the start of the war.

And we aren't simply talking about the United States, we are talking about the whole world. Or did you forget that the Great Depression wasn't just in the US...?

Yes, the war played a large part in reducing unemployment, and probably accelerating the recovery, but it started well before that. This is pretty well studied and accepted...

From wiki, for a quick rundown:

Gold standard

Economic studies have indicated that just as the downturn was spread worldwide by the rigidities of the Gold Standard, it was suspending gold convertibility (or devaluing the currency in gold terms) that did most to make recovery possible.[41][42] What policies countries followed after casting off the gold standard, and what results followed varied widely.
Every major currency left the gold standard during the Great Depression. Great Britain was the first to do so. Facing speculative attacks on the pound and depleting gold reserves, in September 1931 the Bank of England ceased exchanging pound notes for gold and the pound was floated on foreign exchange markets.



Great Britain, Japan, and the Scandinavian countries left the gold standard in 1931. Other countries, such as Italy and the U.S., remained on the gold standard into 1932 or 1933, while a few countries in the so-called "gold bloc", led by France and including Poland, Belgium and Switzerland, stayed on the standard until 1935–1936.
According to later analysis, the earliness with which a country left the gold standard reliably predicted its economic recovery. For example, Great Britain and Scandinavia, which left the gold standard in 1931, recovered much earlier than France and Belgium, which remained on gold much longer. Countries such as China, which had a silver standard, almost avoided the depression entirely. The connection between leaving the gold standard as a strong predictor of that country's severity of its depression and the length of time of its recovery has been shown to be consistent for dozens of countries, including developing countries. This partly explains why the experience and length of the depression differed between national economies.[44]
World War II and recovery

The common view among economic historians is that the Great Depression ended with the advent of World War II. Many economists believe that government spending on the war caused or at least accelerated recovery from the Great Depression. However, some consider that it did not play a very large role in the recovery, although it did help in reducing unemployment.[1] [45][46]
The massive rearmament policies leading up to World War II helped stimulate the economies of Europe in 1937–39. By 1937, unemployment in Britain had fallen to 1.5 million. The mobilization of manpower following the outbreak of war in 1939 finally ended unemployment.[8]
America's entry into the war in 1941 finally eliminated the last effects from the Great Depression and brought the unemployment rate down below 10%.[47] In the U.S., massive war spending doubled economic growth rates, either masking the effects of the Depression or essentially ending the Depression. Businessmen ignored the mounting national debt and heavy new taxes, redoubling their efforts for greater output to take advantage of generous government contracts.

 

[LegendKiller]

The departure from the gold standard and the beginning of the recovery started well before the start of the war.

And we aren't simply talking about the United States, we are talking about the whole world. Or did you forget that the Great Depression wasn't just in the US...?

Yes, the war played a large part in reducing unemployment, and probably accelerating the recovery, but it started well before that. This is pretty well studied and accepted...

From wiki, for a quick rundown:

I think a lot of people forget the amount of people FDR put into the labor force through "socialism" prior to the beginning of the war production efforts. Many do not realize that the unemployment figures do not include the CCC/TVA efforts. Real unemployment in the mid/late 30s was ~5% and the recovery was taking hold as a result of that. It wasn't until the fiscal tightening that we tripped a bit.

 

[William Gaatjes]

I am looking at the documentary , but i am already disappointed. Why do these people always think that there is no world economy. And that this world economy does not affect the US. When trading and selling of actual material takes place, you actually notice the decline or increase in sales.

Do some research about the fall of the Austrian Hungarian empire in europe. How WW1 started. and so on...

Here is for example from japan.
http://www.grips.ac.jp/teacher/oono/hp/lecture_J/lec07.htm

 

[Nemesis 1]

The departure from the gold standard and the beginning of the recovery started well before the start of the war.

And we aren't simply talking about the United States, we are talking about the whole world. Or did you forget that the Great Depression wasn't just in the US...?

Yes, the war played a large part in reducing unemployment, and probably accelerating the recovery, but it started well before that. This is pretty well studied and accepted...

From wiki, for a quick rundown:

No I didn't forget anything. The war didn't start in 41 for the US. It started way befor that. It started when it started in europe and China . Who supplied the allies .By the way NONE of the allied powers have repaid their WWII debt to us . Maybe 1 that has yet to be proven . At any rate when the US started ramping up Industry for war. Was way befor 41.

 

[Nemesis 1]

I am looking at the documentary , but i am already disappointed. Why do these people always think that there is no world economy. And that this world economy does not affect the US. When trading and selling of actual material takes place, you actually notice the decline or increase in sales.

Do some research about the fall of the Austrian Hungarian empire in europe. How WW1 started. and so on...

Here is for example from japan.
http://www.grips.ac.jp/teacher/oono/hp/lecture_J/lec07.htm

LOL Austrian.Hungarian . This is Amusing . PRUSSIA. That which historians are tring to remove from history.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...p-WR-Prussia.svg/706px-Map-WR-Prussia.svg.png

 

[LegendKiller]

No I didn't forget anything. The war didn't start in 41 for the US. It started way befor that. It started when it started in europe and China . Who supplied the allies .By the way NONE of the allied powers have repaid their WWII debt to us . Maybe 1 that has yet to be proven . At any rate when the US started ramping up Industry for war. Was way befor 41.

http://www.inthenews.co.uk/news/news/finance/britain-makes-final-ww2-lend-lease-payment-$1034891.htm

 

[William Gaatjes]

LOL Austrian.Hungarian . This is Amusing . PRUSSIA. That which historians are tring to remove from history.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...p-WR-Prussia.svg/706px-Map-WR-Prussia.svg.png

Well i do not believe that the name or word Prussia is deliberately forgotten. I myself come up with my post from memory. And i am thinking more of programming at the moment. My mind is not setup at the moment for history.

But i looked at the documentary and there are a few things i agree on. In times of depression it is better to save money then to just spend it. I also agree with the resource view. I agree with that president Warren G. Harding.

It is very simple, infinite expansion is an illusion , in the past now and forever.

The prices of commodities at the moment are not determined by supply and demand, but by selling and buying numerous times on wall street or to buy and sell the resources needed to create or transport those commodities.

For example, bread is cheap with 5 bakers in the same street. That is until someone who provides the grains to make flour decides to create an artificial shortage. Because then the prices go up even with 5 bakers in the same street. The free market does nothing here for the customer or the bakers. The only way those 5 bakers can steal customers from each other is to drop the prices.

For example, one baker makes less earnings because of lowering his prices.
Thereby reducing his liquidity when he encounters a financial problem.
The second baker releases shares to create an artificial wealth. This artificial wealth is then used to compensate for the lower prices. But the problem is that the shareholders want to earn too. As such, this baker will have to declare bankruptcy sooner or later. He can try to go to an investment bank or go to an casino which is the same thing as investing as is done today without regulations in my opinion.

The third bakers just stops and calls it a day.

The fourth baker uses less flower and uses other ingredients and as such loses customers because of the foul taste.

The fifth baker starts by making a deal with the butcher selling his bread a bit more expensive but with the meat. Because together they buy the meat and flour in large quantities while making price agreements with the supplier.
However, they do need more customers because if they do not sell enough bread and meat, they are going to loose as well.

You could say that since bakers 3 stopped and baker 4 is loosing customers,
baker 1, baker 2 and baker 5 will survive. But the problem is they where always short of customers. Enough customers for 3 bakers ? Maybe. But bakers 2 and 5 need to make more money then they needed to originally.
Baker 2 needs to keep his share holders happy.
Baker 5 and the butcher had promised to buy an fixed amount of the grain and the meat for a fixed price at fixed times and as such needs money as well.

How did this all start ?
Oh yeah, right. The artificially created reduction of grain and flour on the market.


:hmm:

 

[Nemesis 1]

Oh . I beleave I have stated many times the middle man should be wiped out . He does nothing productive only preys on others . His value is = to that of a rattle snake. But he does warn of his impending bite and thats when he should be shot. The rattle is a warning to stay away . Thats the wrong thing to do . The rattle should be used to locate and kill the bas-terds.

 

[Nemesis 1]

How come the endless WOT isn't working out so well for the economy? I mean we collected all those taxes and sold war bonds to pay for it right?

Ask yourself this question. How many people work for the government? How many people work for the WAR machine?

The debates here would be so much better if we all new were and who the debaters work for. Clearly their replies would be more revealing about who and what they are.

 

[LegendKiller]

Oh . I beleave I have stated many times the middle man should be wiped out . He does nothing productive only preys on others . His value is = to that of a rattle snake. But he does warn of his impending bite and thats when he should be shot. The rattle is a warning to stay away . Thats the wrong thing to do . The rattle should be used to locate and kill the bas-terds.

There always needs to be a "middle man", aggregation of skills into those that perform the skills the best is a natural progression of the markets and is a simple efficiency that is inevitably found.

 

[LegendKiller]

Ask yourself this question. How many people work for the government? How many people work for the WAR machine?

The debates here would be so much better if we all new were and who the debaters work for. Clearly their replies would be more revealing about who and what they are.

Where somebody works is immaterial to their points. Debate is proven not by the vocation of the debater but by the skill, points, and facts being debated.

 

[StageLeft]

In todays world Gold has great value. Easy for anyone to grasp its value in tech.

But 5,000 years ago its becomes really hard to understand WHY gold was of value . TO soft and heavey for weapons , The color isn't really that popular among the masses. So why was gold so valued by the ancients. The ans. is out there ya just have to except the facts.

The OPs link is rather good. But I am sure the simple truth of what Harding did or didn't do is hiden from the highly educated here . So I will break it down to Simple house hold economics .

If I family overspends they become endanger of losing their home and everthing that goes along with it. Harding choose a path that is fiscally sound . If a homeowner over extends himself and expenses are greater than income that household will fail . Unless ya do 1 of 2 differant things.

I1. Cut back on outgoing expensese tighten (Live within your means. THe correct think to do .

2. Increase income to where balance is maintained . The wrong thing to do because this feeds expansion and the end result will always be the same . You will end up with outdoing always beating incoming growth. 2 is what they teach in higher education . Which is why the Sick are running the world . They feed peoples greed for more more more . It amazes myself how many sheepo believe what these retards say. Rather than using the common sense harding used. Its easy to see in these times. As so many lost the good life so to speak.

The people who teach that 2 is correct are 1 of 2 things Retards or they have an agenda. . I go with they have an agenda. Common sense is dieing along side and instep with morals . Strange that . NOT!

This is in fact one of your better posts and I agree with it entirely (the family 1 vs family 2). It is backed up with pretty reliable facts, too.

 

[sandorski]

This is in fact one of your better posts and I agree with it entirely (the family 1 vs family 2). It is backed up with pretty reliable facts, too.

You can't run a Nation the way you run a Family or a Business.

 

[RocksteadyDotNet]

Do share, then.

This thing called WW2. You might have heard of it.

 

[Nemesis 1]

You can't run a Nation the way you run a Family or a Business.

Hows that . Fiscal responsability Won't work with Governments please explain. Nothing else works.

 

[sandorski]

Hows that . Fiscal responsability Won't work with Governments please explain. Nothing else works.

I didn't say that. However, the Concerns and the Responsibilities of the 2 don't match. Government creates and maintains(I'm sure this will piss off some Members) the Playing Field that Business and Families Need/Require to operate. Part of this is in manipulating the Economy, both Up and Down, as well as make Investments in Infrastructure that has potential(from Interstate/National Highways to the Internet), but has not necessarily been proven.

 

[Nemesis 1]

The government of the people of the USA . Is suppose to be BY the People for the People . We don't have that . We haven't had that since Abe. We will never have it again. Business should not be involved at all.

 

[Acanthus]

So we spent a 1/3rd of the entire GDP on military stimulus back then.

Our GDP today is, I'll round up, $15 Trillion so your argument calls for a stimulus package of $5 Trillion. Guess Congress fell short $4.2 Trillion.

Actually we have had less than half a trillion in real stimulus.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Oh . I beleave I have stated many times the middle man should be wiped out . He does nothing productive only preys on others . His value is = to that of a rattle snake. But he does warn of his impending bite and thats when he should be shot. The rattle is a warning to stay away . Thats the wrong thing to do . The rattle should be used to locate and kill the bas-terds.

Well, i would not put it that drastic.

The middle man can actually be a benefit when morally correct decisions are made. However, a middle man with a view similar as was promoted by Ayn Rand, that is to be as greedy as possible and only think of himself, the middle man is actually a leach.

But there can be situations where the demand is low and the supply is high. The middle man can act as an storage to buy the supplied goods to keep levels above a critical minimum to prevent shortage. However, this will fail in the perspective of infinite demand. Because the middle man himself does not have unlimited resources to store the supplied goods.

And that is where the problems can be found once again.
The example i gave with 5 bakers in the same street is an prime example of the market to day. If that may be financial, commodities or paper trade as in wall street.

With baker 2 :
Because the customers do not only buy the bread, the customers also buy the shares. In fact paying twice for the bread. The illusion of cheaper production can present itself in many ways.

 

[CanOWorms]

Wikipedia says that this depression happened because of the transition from WW1 war economy to peacetime. It seems that the obsession with Americans to send their children to die for Europe has damaged the US much more than I previously thought.

 

[Darwin333]

Do you people forget what opportunities war brings ?
How much money can be made ?
How much people can be put to work ?
Just think of all the companies where there was no profit made in the beginning just to support the country. Later on, the profit's would be earned though...

You left out the one that no one likes to think about, a serious reduction in the workforce (some soldiers don't come back).

 

[PeshakJang]

This thing called WW2. You might have heard of it.

Welcome to the intertubes. Plz read the thread before douching.