The first new Gaza aid flotilla is already moving.

[Freshgeardude]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/27/world/middleeast/27flotilla.html?ref=middleeast

What different now is that Israel has lost the ability to claim its blockade of Gaza has any shred of legitimacy, and now descends to the level of pirates if it stops this boat.

Life comes at us fast, and tat is just the few of what I am guessing will be a large number of Gaza aid flotillas.

Please point to me where the world collectively has condemned the blockade after the may flotilla incident.

Please point to me an international court forcing israel to lift the blockade.


Tell me... What has changed since may. streched ties with turkey? Increased tires with greece.


Israel is going to stop this flotilla just like the last one because at the end of the day israel cares only about its own survival and doesn't care about what the arab backed un groups condemning it will say.


If anything they have learned is to come in with weapons hot. And they will disable the boats with frog men.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally Posted by Lemon law

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/27/wo...ref=middleeast

What different now is that Israel has lost the ability to claim its blockade of Gaza has any shred of legitimacy, and now descends to the level of pirates if it stops this boat.
God you can`t make this stuff up! Only in the mind of Lemon law does it play out!!

Life comes at us fast, and tat is just the few of what I am guessing will be a large number of Gaza aid flotillas. -- guessing?? You mean hoping for a confrontation??

Please point to me where the world collectively has condemned the blockade after the may flotilla incident.

Please point to me an international court forcing israel to lift the blockade.


Tell me... What has changed since may. streched ties with turkey? Increased tires with greece.


Israel is going to stop this flotilla just like the last one because at the end of the day israel cares only about its own survival and doesn't care about what the arab backed un groups condemning it will say.


If anything they have learned is to come in with weapons hot. And they will disable the boats with frog men.


Freshgeardude spot on!! very well said!!

 

[JEDIYoda]

Just wondering what your stake in this is?
Or you just find destruction with the possibility of some people getting killed funny.

What is your stake in this?
You find the possible killing of Israeli`s funny if the wrong items get through the blockade??

Just asking...

 

[Freshgeardude]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Earth to JOS, Earth to JOS, the flotilla is not invading Israel, its sailing to Gaza and Gaza
does not belong to Israel. What do you fail to understand when the UN has declared the Israeli blockade of Gaza is not legitimate. If Israel wants to reduce itself to the level of pirates, they can commit armed robbery by force, but no one will tolerate armed robbery
as an Israeli right.

Lets get this clear.

Israel is at war with hamas. Hamas vows to destroy israel. under international law, a country canset a blockade on its enemy in an attempt to stop their aggression.


This is what the US did with cuba in the missile crisis. this is what israel is doing.


There its no difference between the two in terms of ambition and method.


Cuba simply had a more self sufficient economy. Add to the fact that cuba didn't actually launch missiles to the us also was a factor.


Until you understand hard evidence and well recorded facts, you will sound
like a fucking moron LL.


You love to come to drastic assumptions which over the past months of debating with you have never once been correct.

 

[Lemon law]

Lemon Head,

When do the Palestinians get held accountable for anything?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well at least FearNoEvil asks maybe the defining question.

According to Israel and its fab clubbers, the question must be defined as a win lose situation. If Israel does not win everything, then a great injustice will occur. The problem is, for Israel to win everything, not only must the Palestinians lose everything, but so must all the surrounding Arab states. But on that criteria, Israel immediately is on the vast losing end of the greatest good for the greatest number, 6 million to 275 million is no contest. Beyond that, Israeli credibility is now fast eroding.

But at the same time we must recognize the surrounding Arab States and the Palestinians are not blameless either, nor are the Israelis. What will not now work is any win lose idea. When what we need is so win win situation, and not a situation where one given side loses all so another side can totally win.

But FearNoEvil is totally confused on one thing, its not the fault of Palestinians that the larger world is now realizing Israeli does not desire peace, and refuses to give up gains illegally acquired in the the 1967&73 wars. The Israeli rhetoric is 100% at odds with its behavior. Its not the behavior of Palestinians that the world is watching, its the behavior of Israel that is the number 1 problem.

How can we blame Palestinians for the positions of the UN, the US, the EU, and Russia who are all invested in an Israeli Palestinian peace process and all opposed to any Israeli resumption of settlements.

In short, Israel is getting increasing isolated and without a single supporter.

 

[JEDIYoda]

According to Israel and its fab clubbers, the question must be defined as a win lose situation. If Israel does not win everything, then a great injustice will occur. The problem is, for Israel to win everything, not only must the Palestinians lose everything, but so must all the surrounding Arab states. But on that criteria, Israel immediately is on the vast losing end of the greatest good for the greatest number, 6 million to 275 million is no contest. Beyond that, Israeli credibility is now fast eroding. -- actually whats ironic is you just don`t get it! If somebody would step up to the plate and gurantee the security of israel against any sort of attack, there would be peace tomorrow! Quite frankly nobody will step up because those who have the most to lose - speaking about other arab nations want no part of Peace!

But at the same time we must recognize the surrounding Arab States and the Palestinians are not blameless either, nor are the Israelis. What will not now work is any win lose idea. When what we need is so win win situation, and not a situation where one given side loses all so another side can totally win. -- do we see a softening of lemon laws position or is it merely more lies and mis-information being spread???

But FearNoEvil is totally confused on one thing, its not the fault of Palestinians that the larger world is now realizing Israeli does not desire peace-- not true, no links to support your blabbering.., and refuses to give up gains illegally acquired in the the 1967&73 wars.-- sorry to inform you but those gains were NOT illegally acquired! The Israeli rhetoric is 100% at odds with its behavior. Its not the behavior of Palestinians that the world is watching, its the behavior of Israel that is the number 1 problem. -- actually it is the Palestinians the world is watching and wondering why they are such a despised(by other arab countires) group of people. They are their own worse enema!
How can we blame Palestinians for the positions of the UN, the US, the EU, and Russia who are all invested in an Israeli Palestinian peace process and all opposed to any Israeli resumption of settlements.

In short, Israel is getting increasing isolated and without a single supporter.-- please oh please pray tell describe the isolation that Israel is dealing with...hmmmm

God the comedy value is off the scale....

 

[Nebor]

I hope they just sink this one outright so Lemon Law's head will explode. Plus it'll stop a huge media buildup every time a boat comes... because the boats won't come anymore.

 

[Number1]

Very predictable outcome

From the CBC

Israeli naval forces on Tuesday intercepted a catamaran carrying nine Jewish activists heading to the Gaza Strip, encountering no resistance as they took control of the sailboat and escorted it to shore, the military said.
The incident occurred four months after a deadly Israeli raid on an international flotilla, in which nine Turkish activists, one of them a dual Turkish-American citizen, were killed in clashes with naval commandos.

Jewish activists sail away from the port of Famagusta in Cyprus for Gaza on Sept. 26. Nine activists from Israel, Britain, Germany and the United States left Famagusta port in northern Cyprus with a small quantity of aid aboard their British-flagged catamaran, Irene. Israeli forces stopped the ship on Tuesday. (Reuters)The Irene, like the earlier flotilla, had been trying to breach Israel's naval blockade of Gaza.
Israel imposed the blockade three years ago after the Islamic militant Hamas group seized control of Gaza, a crowded seaside territory that borders the southwest corner of Israel.
The closure was meant to prevent Hamas, which has fired thousands of rockets at Israel, from building up its arsenal, weaken Hamas's grip on power and put pressure on the group to release a captured Israeli soldier. None of those goals were achieved, however, and the blockade caused widespread misery among Gaza's 1.5 million people.
The passengers on the Irene, including a former Israeli fighter pilot, had said they wanted to show that not all Jews support the Israeli blockade. They acknowledged ahead of time that it was unlikely they would reach Gaza and said they would not resist.
The military announced "the boarding of the yacht was without incident and no violence of any kind was used by neither the passengers onboard nor the Israel naval forces."
It said the Irene was being taken to the Israeli port of Ashdod. The boat's cargo, including medicine, toys and water purifiers, are expected to be transferred into Gaza.
Miri Weingarten, a spokeswoman for the activists who was in touch with them when they were halted, said one person was handcuffed as the naval forces boarded the boat. She said a lawyer for the activists hoped to meet them in Ashdod, and that the group had also asked that a doctor be allowed access to examine an 82-year-old activist on board.
Violence avoided

With the peaceful takeover, Israel avoided a repeat of last May's incident, in which Israeli naval commandos violently clashed with activists wielding clubs and knives on board the Turkish ship. Both the military and the activists have accused each other of provoking the violence.
In the wake of heavy international criticism over the bloodshed, Israel eased its land blockade of Gaza to allow virtually all consumer goods into Gaza.
However, Israeli restrictions on construction materials, desperately needed to rebuild damage from an Israeli military offensive in early 2009, remain in place. And Israel has said it will not loosen the naval blockade on the coastal strip because of concerns that Hamas will smuggle in weapons.

​

 

[Orignal Earl]

What is your stake in this?
You find the possible killing of Israeli`s funny if the wrong items get through the blockade??

Just asking...

I have no stake.
I don't think Israelis getting killed would be funny.
Is there any reason at all, for you to be asking me that?

actually whats ironic is you just don`t get it! If somebody would step up to the plate and gurantee the security of israel against any sort of attack, there would be peace tomorrow! Quite frankly nobody will step up because those who have the most to lose - speaking about other arab nations want no part of Peace!

So all it would take for peace is somebody (God?) to make Israel invulnerable.
That LL is such a fool, how could he not get this.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Gaza Blockade runners to force Israel's hand backed up by Naval forces
Full world embargo if Israel does not make an unjust peace with the Palestinians
Sanctions if Israel refuses to extend the freeze on the settlements


Someone's crystal ball needs a good polish here.
What one wishes for that is unrealistic nevers comes true when dealing with human logics.

 

[Atreus21]

I don't know how to embed images. Could someone post a facepalm, or double facepalm, or something like that?

 

[spacejamz]

I don't know how to embed images. Could someone post a facepalm, or double facepalm, or something like that?

 

[Lemon law]

In all due respects Common Courtesy, you are quick to claim total victory. The peace talks are not collapsed yet, this is just the first of what is likely to be many more Gaza aid flotillas, and this type of history in the making usually moves at a glacially slow pace.

Right now the diplomats from just about anywhere are pressuring Netanyuhu to extend the settlement freeze, and if Israel still refuses, then and only then will the larger world start formulating new mid-east policy steps. What form those steps take is impossible to predict, but its already resulting in increasing Israeli isolation.

No one should be surprised that extreme pro-Israeli fan clubbers will be unable to conceive of Israel being on the losing end of world pressure, because they are unable to look at the larger chess board from any other perspective than a rose colored pro-Israeli viewpoint. Its not that the Israeli position is without any merit, the problem is that the other sides in the conflict have positions of merit also, so a total Israeli wins everything and all others lose everything is not realistic or long term viable.

But expect that any Israeli failure to extend the settlement freeze will result in actions that increase the isolation of Israel. And quite likely, when they come, even pro-Israeli fan clubbers will be unable to deny their reality. But just don't expect them overnight, Common Courtesy. I never did, but I have suggested various forms in which the increasing world pressure may be brought to bear on Israel over the coming mounts and years.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Right now the diplomats from just about anywhere are pressuring Netanyuhu to extend the settlement freeze, and if Israel still refuses, then and only then will the larger world start formulating new mid-east policy steps. What form those steps take is impossible to predict, but its already resulting in increasing Israeli isolation.

Construction resumes in West Bank

KARMEI TZUR, WEST BANK - The rumble of a bulldozer preparing the ground for new homes started early Monday at this Jewish settlement in the southern West Bank, and residents said it was music to their ears after a 10-month building freeze.

After the expiration of a moratorium on new construction in Israeli settlements at midnight Sunday, groundwork for housing developments resumed at several locations across the West Bank, with more expected after the end of the week-long Jewish holiday of Sukkot.

In Karmei Tzur, residents expressed concern that Netanyahu might buckle under heavy diplomatic pressure and renew the suspension of construction. "We have to see if he is a serious leader who is true to his word," Naim said. "I very much hope that he will have the strength to stand up to the nations of the world."

Seeking to tread a path between Washington and the pro-settlement parties in his government, Netanyahu has said the renewed construction would not be on a massive scale. In a previous meeting with Blair this month, he said that Israel would not build "all the tens of thousands of housing units in the pipeline" but that it would "not freeze the life" of the settlers, according to official accounts of the discussion.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/27/AR2010092706300.html

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Lemon Law please share with us YOUR roadmap for peace. What do you see as a fair and realistic settlement between the Palestinians and Isrealis? What comprimize could Isreal make that would satisfy the Palestinians both WB and Gaza, Hamas, and all involved Arab neighbors and guarantee Isreals peaceful exsistence with out fear of attack? Assuming all options are open and be specific as possible.

 

[spacejamz]

What form those steps take is impossible to predict...

Yet you keep making your predictions.

 

[EagleKeeper]

What pressure is being applied regards the settlements?

Before the deadline expired; a few countries went on record urging that the freeze be extended.

Yet no one commented on the fact that it would be the Pals that threatened to walk out. No one commented on where were the Pals the previous 9 months that the freeze was implimented by Israel in an attempt to get the Pals to the table.

LL is the only person that brings up boycotts/embargos of Israel.
LL is the only one that states that Naval forces will be sent to ensure that the Israel's blockade of Gaza is destroyed.

One little sailboat is the result of the massive flotilla to force Israel to its knees in front of the Arab superiority.

World public opinion has no sway; nor are they really concerned about the Pals; readily visible when the Pals keep shooting themselves in the foot by trying to play the injured party.

The WB Pals have to seperate themselves completely from Gaza. Otherwise Gaza will accomplish what is wanted - a descruction of the peace process.

Gaza is an anchor to the WB prosperity

 

[Freshgeardude]

I have no stake.
I don't think Israelis getting killed would be funny.

Yet you want to lift the gaza blockade on hamas.

Right now, and for the last 3 years hamas has waged war every time they attack, or allow a group to attack israel.

The blockade serves many purposes. Weaken the government's power over the people, stop weapon build up and have an economic isolation.

If you can come up with way israel can accomplish those things without the use of a blockade, please tell me.


Until then, either defend the innocent israeli citizens from being attacked by terrorists and compromise the palestinians lives for voting in hamas into power OR defend the palestinians that voted a known terrorist group to power and compromise on the lives of the israelis that have ben there since '48

 

[JEDIYoda]

I have no stake.
I don't think Israelis getting killed would be funny.
Is there any reason at all, for you to be asking me that?

A bit testy this morning I see......
You ask questions knowing full well the answers ahead of time.
Your not the only one who can nask questions.

So all it would take for peace is somebody (God?) to make Israel invulnerable.
That LL is such a fool, how could he not get this.

You must be related to Lemon Law. Nobody said invulnerable.
But you have these people who question why Israel has stated they would not accept a third party guarding their borders. if there was a peace accord.


There is no incentive for a third party to be as vigilant as the israeli`s themselves!

 

[Orignal Earl]

Yet you want to lift the gaza blockade on hamas.

I have never said such a thing.

Until then, either defend the innocent israeli citizens from being attacked by terrorists and compromise the palestinians lives for voting in hamas into power OR defend the palestinians that voted a known terrorist group to power and compromise on the lives of the israelis that have ben there since '48

No.. I don't have to play by your rules.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally Posted by Orignal Earl
I have no stake.
I don't think Israelis getting killed would be funny.

Freshgeardude-If you can come up with way israel can accomplish those things without the use of a blockade, please tell me.

Original Earl will not have a solution to your question because all he can do is ask questions and deny he has any stake in this...lolol

 

[Orignal Earl]

You must be related to Lemon Law. Nobody said invulnerable.

actually whats ironic is you just don`t get it! If somebody would step up to the plate and gurantee the security of israel against any sort of attack, there would be peace tomorrow!

Your going to have to make your posts more intelligible then.
How did you do it when you where in US .mil intel?
God forbid you were some kind of terp.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Original Earl will not have a solution to your question because all he can do is ask questions and deny he has any stake in this...lolol

I do not have a solution. I'm going to keep asking questions. I do not have any stake in this.

 

[Pulsar]

Link?

Someday maybe, Lemon?

 

[JEDIYoda]

I do not have a solution. I'm going to keep asking questions. I do not have any stake in this.

Don`t be suprised if people tire of your questions, since un reality you are contributing nothing. Other than reaffirming that you are pro-Palestinian!

Probably Lemon laws Palestinian brother...