The FBI Deputizes Business.

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
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The FBI Deputizes Business

Some of the notables:

Today, more than 23,000 representatives of private industry are working quietly with the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security. The members of this rapidly growing group, called InfraGard, receive secret warnings of terrorist threats before the public does?and, at least on one occasion, before elected officials. In return, they provide information to the government, which alarms the ACLU. But there may be more to it than that. One business executive, who showed me his InfraGard card, told me they have permission to ?shoot to kill? in the event of martial law.

In November 2001, InfraGard had around 1,700 members. As of late January, InfraGard had 23,682 members, according to its website, www.infragard.net, which adds that ?350 of our nation?s Fortune 500 have a representative in InfraGard.?

He urged InfraGard members to contact the FBI if they ?note suspicious activity or an unusual event.? And he said they could sic the FBI on ?disgruntled employees who will use knowledge gained on the job against their employers.?

The ACLU is not so sanguine.

?There is evidence that InfraGard may be closer to a corporate TIPS program, turning private-sector corporations?some of which may be in a position to observe the activities of millions of individual customers?into surrogate eyes and ears for the FBI,? the ACLU warned in its August 2004 report The Surveillance-Industrial Complex: How the American Government Is Conscripting Businesses and Individuals in the Construction of a Surveillance Society.

InfraGard is not readily accessible to the general public. Its communications with the FBI and Homeland Security are beyond the reach of the Freedom of Information Act under the ?trade secrets? exemption, its website says. And any conversation with the public or the media is supposed to be carefully rehearsed

The InfraGard leadership and the local FBI representative should review the submitted questions, agree on the predilection of the answers, and identify the appropriate interviewee. . . . Tailor answers to the expected audience. . . . Questions concerning sensitive information should be avoided.?

^^This is called forming the opinion for the people.

?The meeting started off innocuously enough, with the speakers talking about corporate espionage,? he says. ?From there, it just progressed. All of a sudden we were knee deep in what was expected of us when martial law is declared. We were expected to share all our resources, but in return we?d be given specific benefits.? These included, he says, the ability to travel in restricted areas and to get people out.

?Then they said when?not if?martial law is declared, it was our responsibility to protect our portion of the infrastructure, and if we had to use deadly force to protect it, we couldn?t be prosecuted,? he says.

The FBI adamantly denies it, also. ?That?s ridiculous,? says Catherine Milhoan, an FBI spokesperson. ?If you want to quote a businessperson saying that, knock yourself out. If that?s what you want to print, fine.?

Christine Moerke is a business continuity consultant for Alliant Energy in Madison, Wisconsin. She says she?s an InfraGard member, and she confirms that she has attended InfraGard meetings that went into the details about what kind of civil patrol function?including engaging in lethal force?that InfraGard members may be called upon to perform.

?There have been discussions like that, that I?ve heard of and participated in,? she says.

Curt Haugen is CEO of S?Curo Group, a company that does ?strategic planning, business continuity planning and disaster recovery, physical and IT security, policy development, internal control, personnel selection, and travel safety,? according to its website. Haugen tells me he is a former FBI agent and that he has been an InfraGard member for many years. He is a huge booster. ?It?s the only true organization where there is the public-private partnership,? he says. ?It?s all who knows who. You know a face, you trust a face. That?s what makes it work.?

He says InfraGard ?absolutely? does emergency preparedness exercises. When I ask about discussions the FBI and Homeland Security have had with InfraGard members about their use of lethal force, he says: ?That much I cannot comment on. But as a private citizen, you have the right to use force if you feel threatened.?

?We were assured that if we were forced to kill someone to protect our infrastructure, there would be no repercussions,? the whistleblower says. ?It gave me goose bumps. It chilled me to the bone.?

Now let me remind you of what Benito Mussolini once said:

?Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power?

It is clear a contingency plan is underway to subdue an uprising. My feeling it will be because of economic collapse. As you see in this article, InfraGard is the medium in which the FBI has delegated power to corporations. I'm sure some of you (I can think of a few off the top of my head <waves hi> ) will bury your head in the sand and shit out some "tin foil hat" stench toward me. Thats ok, I expect that.

Are we past the point of no return? Is it possible to stop a fascist police state from forming? I welcome your comments.


Yet another thread has deteriorated into a food fight. I'm going to lock this thread, but the insults in this thread have been particularly egregious. I STRONGLY suggest that people carefully consider how they phrase their vituperous diatribes, lest the bannings begin.

Hayabusa Rider- AnandTech Senior Moderator
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
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Well known fact. I know several private contractors that went to FLETC (federal law enforcement training center) and hold federal credentials. None of them work in a law enforcement capacity at all, and several of them don't even work for the government. Yet they have nationwide concealed carry (even on planes and in post offices.) And they have access to the kinds of guns us peasants can't get (machine guns made after 1986.)

It's simple, you can be with the government, and be part of the superior class, or you can be a peasant. That's what you get when you constantly grow the government, allow it rights that people don't, and trample on the constitution.
 

brxndxn

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2001
8,475
0
76
Originally posted by: Nebor
Well known fact. I know several private contractors that went to FLETC (federal law enforcement training center) and hold federal credentials. None of them work in a law enforcement capacity at all, and several of them don't even work for the government. Yet they have nationwide concealed carry (even on planes and in post offices.) And they have access to the kinds of guns us peasants can't get (machine guns made after 1986.)

It's simple, you can be with the government, and be part of the superior class, or you can be a peasant. That's what you get when you constantly grow the government, allow it rights that people don't, and trample on the constitution.

A peasant bullet kills just as well.. Don't ever underestimate the peasants.
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
Originally posted by: Nebor
Well known fact. I know several private contractors that went to FLETC (federal law enforcement training center) and hold federal credentials. None of them work in a law enforcement capacity at all, and several of them don't even work for the government. Yet they have nationwide concealed carry (even on planes and in post offices.) And they have access to the kinds of guns us peasants can't get (machine guns made after 1986.)

It's simple, you can be with the government, and be part of the superior class, or you can be a peasant. That's what you get when you constantly grow the government, allow it rights that people don't, and trample on the constitution.

We are very soon to enter into a dangerous time in U.S. history. It saddens me no one seems to care. But we will pay for our complacency with blood. :(
 

Sinsear

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2007
6,439
80
91
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: Nebor
Well known fact. I know several private contractors that went to FLETC (federal law enforcement training center) and hold federal credentials. None of them work in a law enforcement capacity at all, and several of them don't even work for the government. Yet they have nationwide concealed carry (even on planes and in post offices.) And they have access to the kinds of guns us peasants can't get (machine guns made after 1986.)

It's simple, you can be with the government, and be part of the superior class, or you can be a peasant. That's what you get when you constantly grow the government, allow it rights that people don't, and trample on the constitution.

We are very soon to enter into a dangerous time in U.S. history. It saddens me no one seems to care. But we will pay for our complacency with blood. :(

Newsflash: The sky is not falling.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,145
10
81
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: Nebor
Well known fact. I know several private contractors that went to FLETC (federal law enforcement training center) and hold federal credentials. None of them work in a law enforcement capacity at all, and several of them don't even work for the government. Yet they have nationwide concealed carry (even on planes and in post offices.) And they have access to the kinds of guns us peasants can't get (machine guns made after 1986.)

It's simple, you can be with the government, and be part of the superior class, or you can be a peasant. That's what you get when you constantly grow the government, allow it rights that people don't, and trample on the constitution.

We are very soon to enter into a dangerous time in U.S. history. It saddens me no one seems to care. But we will pay for our complacency with blood. :(


5-6 years ago i woul dhave calle dyou a loon. but damnit i hate to agree with you but it sure does look that way.

the courts have ruled that you do not own your house. A business can have the govermetn take it anytime they want for them to profit. i think that was the thing that realy opened my eyes.


also during the kitrina aftermath. police were going aroun takeing peoples weapons. BUT letting armed gaurds wonder around peoples property. that really ticked me off
 

wetech

Senior member
Jul 16, 2002
871
6
81
Found a link on the wiki regarding infraguard:
tinfoil-hat-brigade-generates-fear
An article in The Progressive by Matthew Rothschild worries that the FBI's InfraGard program is deputizing businesses, training them for martial law, and giving them a free pass to "shoot to kill." Rothschild writes:

The members of this rapidly growing group, called InfraGard, receive secret warnings of terrorist threats before the public does?and, at least on one occasion, before elected officials. In return, they provide information to the government, which alarms the ACLU. But there may be more to it than that. One business executive, who showed me his InfraGard card, told me they have permission to ?shoot to kill? in the event of martial law.
Nonsense. I've been a member of the Phoenix InfraGard Members Alliance for years. It's a 501(c)(3) organization sponsored by the FBI whose members have been subjected to some rudimentary screening (comparable to what a non-cleared employee of the federal government would get). Most InfraGard meetings are open to the general public (contrary to Rothschild's statement that "InfraGard is not readily accessible to the general public"), but the organization facilitates communications between members about sensitive subjects like vulnerabilities in privately owned infrastructure and the changing landscape of threats. The FBI provides some reports of threat information to InfraGard members through a secure website, which is unclassified but potentially sensitive information. InfraGard members get no special "shoot to kill" or law enforcement powers of any kind--and membership in the organization is open to anyone who can pass the screening. As Rothschild notes in the first sentence of his article, there are over 23,000 members--that is a pretty large size for a conspiracy plot.

At one point in the article, Rothschild quotes InfraGard National Members Alliance chairman Phyllis Schneck referring to a "special telecommunications card that will enable your call to go through when others will not." This is referring to a GETS card, for the Government Emergency Telecommunications Service, which provides priority service for call completion in times of emergency or disaster to personnel who are working to support critical infrastructure. There is a similar service for wireless priority (Wireless Priority Service), and yet another for critical businesses and organizations (like hospitals) which need to have their telecommunications service re-established first after a loss of service due to disaster (Telecommunications Service Priority). These programs are government programs that are independent of InfraGard, though InfraGard has helped members who represent pieces of critical infrastructure obtain GETS cards.

The ACLU's concern about InfraGard being used as a tip line to turn businesses into spies is a more plausible but still, in my opinion, unfounded concern.Businesses are not under any pressure to provide information to InfraGard, other than normal reporting of criminal events to law enforcement. The only time I've been specifically asked to give information to InfraGard is when I've been asked to speak at a regular meeting, which I've done a few times in talks that have been open to the public about malware threats and botnets.

Check out the comments in The Progressive for some outright hysteria about fascism and martial law. I saw similar absurdity regarding the Department of Homeland Security's TOPOFF 4 exercise, which was a sensible emergency planning exercise. Some people apparently are unable to distinguish common-sense information sharing and planning in order to defend against genuine threats from the institution of a fascist dictatorship and martial law.

Now, I think there are plausible criticisms to be made of the federal government's use of non-governmental organizations--when they're used to sidestep laws and regulations like the Freedom of Information Act, to give lots of government grant money to organizations run by former government employees, to legally mandate funding of and reporting to private organizations and so forth. The FBI has created quite a few such organizations to do things like collect information about missing and exploited children, online crime, and so forth, typically staffed by former agents. But personally, I've not witnessed anything in InfraGard that has led me to have any concerns that it's being used to enlist private businesses into questionable activities--rather, it's been entirely devoted to sharing information that private businesses can use to shore up their own security and for law enforcement to prosecute criminals.

UPDATE (February 9, 2008): The irony is that Matthew Rothschild previously wrote, regarding 9/11 truthers:

We have enough proof that the Bush administration is a bunch of lying evildoers. We don't need to make it up.
He's right about that, but he's now helped spread nonsense about InfraGard and seriously damaged his own credibility. I find it interesting that people are so willing to conclude that InfraGard is a paramilitary organization, when it's actually an educational and information sharing organization that has no enforcement or even emergency, disaster, or incident response function (though certainly some of its members have emergency, disaster, and incident response functions for the organizations they work for).

UPDATE (February 10, 2008): I suspect tomorrow Christine Moerke of Alliant Energy will be getting calls from reporters asking what specifically she confirmed. I hope they ask for details about the conference in question, whether it was run by InfraGard or DHS, what the subject matter was, and who said what. If there's actually an InfraGard chapter endorsing the idea that InfraGard members form armed citizen patrols authorized to use deadly force in time of martial law, that's a chapter that needs to have its leadership removed. My suspicion, though, is that some statements about protection of infrastructure by their own security forces in times of disaster or emergency have been misconstrued. Alliant Energy operates nuclear plants, nuclear plants do have armed guards, and in Arizona, ARS 13-4903 describes the circumstances under which nuclear plant security officers are authorized to use deadly force. Those people, however, are thoroughly trained and regularly tested regarding the use of force and the use of deadly force in particular, which is not the case for InfraGard members.

UPDATE (February 11, 2008): Somehow, above, I neglected to make the most obvious point--that the FBI doesn't have the authority to grant immunity to prosecution for killing. If anyone from the FBI made that statement to InfraGard members, they were saying something that they have no authority to deliver on.

UPDATE (February 12, 2008): I've struck out part of the above about the ACLU's concern about spying being unfounded, as I think that's too strong of a denial. There is a potential slippery slope here. The 9/11 Commission Report pointed to various communication problems that led to the failure to prevent the 9/11 attacks. These problems included failure to share information (mainly from the CIA to the FBI and INS), failure to communicate information within the FBI (like Phoenix Special Agent Ken Williams' memo about suspicious Middle Easterners in flight schools), and failure to have enough resources to translate NSA intercepts (some specific chatter about the attacks was translated after the attacks had already occurred). As a result, the CIA has been working closely with the FBI on counterterrorism and counterintelligence at least since 2001. (Also see Dana Priest, "CIA Is Expanding Domestic Operations," The Washington Post, October 23, 2002, p. A02, which is no longer available on the Post's site but can be found elsewhere on the web, on sites whose other content is so nutty I refuse to link, as well as this January 2006 statement from FBI Director Robert Mueller on the InfraGard website, which includes the statement that "Today, the FBI and CIA are not only sharing information on a regular basis, we are exchanging employees and working together on cases every day.")

The slippery slope is this--the CIA is an organization which recruits and develops in its officers a sense of flexible ethics which has frequently resulted in incredible abuses, and which arguably has done more harm than good to U.S. interests. (My opinion on the CIA may be found in my posts on this blog labeled "CIA"; I highly recommend Tim Weiner's Legacy of Ashes: The History of the CIA.) Some of that ethical flexibility may well rub off on FBI agents who work closely with CIA case officers. (The FBI itself has also had a history of serious abuses, an objective account of which may be found in Ronald Kessler's book The Bureau: The Secret History of the FBI.) And then, that same ethical flexibility may rub off on InfraGard members as a result of their relationships with the FBI (and potentially relationships with the CIA, as well). The intelligence community seems to have a hunger for more and more information from more and more sources, but it is already awash in a sea of information that it has trouble processing today. (It doesn't help that the Army fires direly needed Arabic translators because they are gay.) The need is to accurately assess the information that it has, and ensure that bits and pieces aren't cherry-picked to produce desired conclusions, as well as ensure that information isn't sought or assembled to serve personal and political ends of particular interests rather than combatting genuine threats to the country and its citizens.

My recommendation is that all InfraGard members read Kessler's The Bureau, Weiner's Legacy of Ashes, and view the film that won the 2007 Academy Award for best foreign film, "The Lives of Others," to help innoculate them against such a slippery slope.

UPDATE: Amy Goodman interviewed Matt Rothschild for "Democracy Now!" on Wisconsin Public Television, in which it is pretty clear to me that Rothschild is exaggerating something he doesn't understand--what he cites as evidence doesn't support what he claims. Here's a key excerpt, see the link for the full transcript:
MR: [...] And one other member of InfraGard [Christine Moerke of Alliant Energy] confirmed to me that she had actually been at meetings and participated in meetings where the discussion of lethal force came up, as far as what businesspeople are entitled to do in times of an emergency to protect their little aspect of the infrastructure.
AG: But just to clarify, Matt Rothschild, who exactly is empowered to shoot to kill if martial law were declared? The business leaders themselves?
MR: The business leaders themselves were told, at least in this one meeting, that if there is martial law declared or if there?s a time of an emergency, that members of InfraGard would have permission to protect?you know, whether it?s the local utility or, you know, their computers or the financial sector, whatever aspect. Whatever aspect of the infrastructure they?re involved with, they?d have permission to shoot to kill, to use lethal force to protect their aspect of the infrastructure, and they wouldn?t be able to be prosecuted, they were told.
[...]
You know, this is a secretive organization. They?re not supposed to talk to the press. You need to get vetted by the FBI before you can join it. They get almost daily information that the public doesn?t get. And then they have these extraordinary, really astonishing powers being vested in them by FBI and Homeland Security, shoot-to-kill powers. I mean, this is scary stuff.
MR: The business leaders themselves were told, at least in this one meeting, that if there is martial law declared or if there?s a time of an emergency, that members of InfraGard would have permission to protect?you know, whether it?s the local utility or, you know, their computers or the financial sector, whatever aspect. Whatever aspect of the infrastructure they?re involved with, they?d have permission to shoot to kill, to use lethal force to protect their aspect of the infrastructure, and they wouldn?t be able to be prosecuted, they were told.
It looks to me like the following transformation has occurred:

1. At a DHS conference on emergency response, somebody asks if owners of critical pieces of infrastructure should be expected to use deadly force if necessary to protect it (e.g., a nuclear power plant).
2. Somebody at DHS answers yes. They may even add that in some cases the law provides specific justification for use of deadly force (as in the Arizona statute I cite above).
3. Matt turns that into a general right to "shoot-to-kill" in times of martial law by any InfraGard member.
4. The blogosphere turns that into roving citizen patrols unleashed on the nation as the Bush hit squad after declaration of martial law.

I don't see his key source--Christine Moerke--confirming anything beyond #1 and #2.

Note other exaggerations and contradictions--Rothschild claims that InfraGard is highly secretive and selective, yet has quickly grown to over 23,000 members and has multiple public websites. He fails to note that most InfraGard meetings are open to the general public, or that it has been discussed in many articles in the national press over the last decade. Rothschild speaks of "business leaders," which the blogosphere has turned into "CEOs," yet I suspect the most common "business leader" represented in InfraGard is an IT or physical security manager.


To summarize:
1. Meetings open to the public. You can even download an application and apply yourself online.
2. Can't shoot people just for the hell of it.
3. Provides a way for the gov't to get security info to the private sector.
4. Members are not required to give info to the gov't. It seems more like a national Neighborhood Watch.

 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,215
11
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Hilarious.

I have a high-level security clearance issued by the government for my job. I guess I am being "deputized" by the DoD since they're "using" me, I can't tell the public what I know, and I could be turned in if I were "disgrunted" and likely to divulge classified info?

This thread is absurd.
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
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Originally posted by: wetech


To summarize:
1. Meetings open to the public. You can even download an application and apply yourself online.

You conveniently disregard the word "most" meetings are open to the public.

2. Can't shoot people just for the hell of it.

I guess we will know more about that if/when martial law is instituted. I think they will use means of force to protect such things as their products/food in the event of an economic collapse.

3. Provides a way for the gov't to get security info to the private sector.

Uhh, WTF is the damned EBS for then? Emergency Broadcast System is just what the name states. Other less important things can use the same channels, instead of the latest brittany update.

4. Members are not required to give info to the gov't. It seems more like a national Neighborhood Watch.

Who knows if thats true when shit hits the fan.


It is clear to me this is nothing more than government joining forces with corporations. You think this is benign, but I see this growing government enforcing its control further in the private sector in the unlikely event of something disastrous.
 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
17,116
1
0
Hahahahahahaha!! I swear! Get a fucking grip already. I know FBI agents, I know more than one person who is in InfraGuard due to their being working in computer security. This is all just ridiculous.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,215
11
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Don't get him wrong - he's A-Ok with the corporations running the country, but how DARE that dasterdly government get involved??
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
Originally posted by: Deeko
Don't get him wrong - he's A-Ok with the corporations running the country, but how DARE that dasterdly government get involved??

You are seriously fucking retarded. How about you troll your ass somewhere else?
 

Sinsear

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2007
6,439
80
91
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: Deeko
Don't get him wrong - he's A-Ok with the corporations running the country, but how DARE that dasterdly government get involved??

You are seriously fucking retarded. How about you troll your ass somewhere else?

Only one trolling here is you after another tinfoil conspiracy was disproved.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
LOL.. once again... some of you dudes are straight-up crazy... I'm serious. You are padded-room-straight-jacket-jello-through-a-straw CRAZY!

The InfraGard Conspiracy is one of the funniest I've ever seen! I think it has taken the place of the old FEMA tales for the tinfoil crowd who lost faith in that conspiracy when they realized just how impotent FEMA was during the Katrina response.

InfraGard is simply an open forum for businesses to participate in, and contribute to, the protection and security of our nation's most critical infrastructure -- Most of which seem primarily concerned with various aspects of cyber security and disaster recovery.

Some of you may be dangerously insane... seriously, seek help!
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,830
3
0
Originally posted by: Nebor
Well known fact. I know several private contractors that went to FLETC (federal law enforcement training center) and hold federal credentials. None of them work in a law enforcement capacity at all, and several of them don't even work for the government. Yet they have nationwide concealed carry (even on planes and in post offices.) And they have access to the kinds of guns us peasants can't get (machine guns made after 1986.)

It's simple, you can be with the government, and be part of the superior class, or you can be a peasant. That's what you get when you constantly grow the government, allow it rights that people don't, and trample on the constitution.

This is not what this is about. It's about high level businessmen in Fortune 500 companies.
 

Sinsear

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2007
6,439
80
91
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: Sinsear
Only one trolling here is you after another tinfoil conspiracy was disproved.

QFT. :thumbsup:

Is it a coincidence that all the conspiracy threads seem to be started by RP zealots?
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
Originally posted by: Sinsear
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: Deeko
Don't get him wrong - he's A-Ok with the corporations running the country, but how DARE that dasterdly government get involved??

You are seriously fucking retarded. How about you troll your ass somewhere else?

Only one trolling here is you after another tinfoil conspiracy was disproved.

Disproved eh? By whom? Where? I see no proof of it being disproved.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,215
11
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You still haven't responded to my comment about me being "deputized", because you know it shows how ridiculous the premise of this thread really is.

You bots post 100 threads a day, all absurd, people coming in to shoot you down are not trolling - they're responding to YOUR trolling. That's not a hard concept to understand.
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
Originally posted by: Deeko
You still haven't responded to my comment about me being "deputized", because you know it shows how ridiculous the premise of this thread really is.

No, not "because it shows how ridiculous". I didn't know I was supposed to answer that. Thanks for telling me. We will not see the evidence until or if this martial law presents itself. The problem here is, you can look like your right all the way until it happens. Then if it does happen, what will my "I told you so" mean? Absolutely nothing.

You bots post 100 threads a day, all absurd, people coming in to shoot you down are not trolling - they're responding to YOUR trolling. That's not a hard concept to understand.

Actually, when someone states evidence and you or anyone else who comes in crying "crazy", "loon" or "kook" without any substance, it not only makes you a troll, but a child. Grow up already.

 

wetech

Senior member
Jul 16, 2002
871
6
81
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: Deeko
You still haven't responded to my comment about me being "deputized", because you know it shows how ridiculous the premise of this thread really is.

No, not "because it shows how ridiculous". I didn't know I was supposed to answer that. Thanks for telling me. We will not see the evidence until or if this martial law presents itself. The problem here is, you can look like your right all the way until it happens. Then if it does happen, what will my "I told you so" mean? Absolutely nothing.

You bots post 100 threads a day, all absurd, people coming in to shoot you down are not trolling - they're responding to YOUR trolling. That's not a hard concept to understand.

Actually, when someone states evidence and you or anyone else who comes in crying "crazy", "loon" or "kook" without any substance, it not only makes you a troll, but a child. Grow up already.

You're right. The gov't is handing control of the nation over to Corporate America, giving this select few the right to kill with impunity. Bush is going to declare martial law, and 2 minutes later, Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are going on a killing spree in Times Square.
 

Wheezer

Diamond Member
Nov 2, 1999
6,731
1
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The Titanic was an inside job.

Secret members of government and corporations designed the crash of 1929.

FDR knew the Japanese were going to bomb Pearl Harbor and he did nothing.


Kennedy was killed by a man on the grassy knoll.

The moon landing was a hoax.

The original bombings of the twin towers was an inside job by a covert military group trying to blame members of Islam.

9/11 was an inside job by GWB and Co.

Infared is a covert group of business men who have orders to shoot to kill if martial law is implemented.

are there any other bat-shit crazy conspiracies that I missed?