The F22 goes operational.

[Aegeon]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Russia doesnt mass produce any of their top of the line aircraft

right?

They certainly don't produce the Mig-35 for sure. The Mig-35 merely got to the prototype stage and then got cancelled.
http://www.answers.com/topic/mikoyan-project-1-44

At best some of the technology might go into a future fighter program, but certain details such as the plane's stealth capabilities remain questionable.

Its also unclear if the possible future fighter program is even going forward.

 

[marincounty]

quote: REP. JERRY LEWIS: But, wait a minute, Senator. The fact is that we began talking about this program in 1985, and the projections then were that the R & D would just be about $12 billion. Currently, as of now we've spent almost $23 billion in the research and development side. The escalation of costs continues forward. And indeed we hear from the Air Force today that we can afford this aircraft, but they keep ratcheting down the numbers that we'll be able to buy or that they need. First we're going to buy 750. Then it came down four times in a row. Now we're at 339. The actual cost with the R & D is going to be $184 million an airplane. And when they were first selling it in 1985, the Air Force told us it would cost about $35 million a plane. So, it's clear that there is a need to review the management that's taken place, look at three lines of different aircraft to be our future tactical aircraft and decide which one among those we can afford, or which two. We certainly can't afford all three. And I said earlier, if we produce all three, it's going to cost us $350 billion and push all kinds of other very critical needs for our young men and women in the services just off the board.
___________________________________________

The military keeps buying gold-plated hardware while soldiers don't have proper body armor or armored vehicles. I think is stupid to be spending so much on this plane when we already have the best fighter.

 

[tommywishbone]

As noted above; nobody will ever come out and fight us again heads-up. They won't go tank-to-tank, the won't scramble jets to intercept, naval encounters ended in the 40's and most likely enemy C&C will never again be concentrated. If I were a Fly-Boy, I'm sure I'd love the F-22, but it seems to me like the F-15, F-16 and even the F-14 are still head & shoulders above everything else out there. But of course, I've been wrong before.

 

[Aegeon]

Originally posted by: tommywishbone
but it seems to me like the F-15, F-16 and even the F-14 are still head & shoulders above everything else out there. But of course, I've been wrong before.

That's clearly not true though. Designs such as the Eurofighter and Rafale do have a bunch of potential advantages over F-15s and F-16s, and may get eventually sold to countries the US ends up fighting. The latest versions of the Soviet SU-30 are also quite capable. Trying to just stick with updated versions of the F-15 and F-16 designs really would be risky over the long term and potentially creates a situation where the US's enemy has the superior quality fighters.

 

[slash196]

Plus, most of those F-14 airframes are 30+ years old. It's simply time for a change. And with the capabilities this sucker has, 179 will be plenty.

 

[judasmachine]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Meuge
Considering that they have a $6B contract with the chinese for these missiles, I would be more skeptical about american capabilities if I were you.

Soviet\Russian equipment has time and time again proved to be overstated on the battfield and ineffective vs equipment from the West.

I bet training also has a lot to do with it. I have read several articles though that had ex Russian generals admitting that their pilots were undertrained and there boasts of equipment were overstated. That being said, all you have to do is eyeball one with a hidden AA gun, as was proven in Kosovo. But luck also had a lot to do with that one.

 

[the splat in the hat]

Well there neat looking planes n all , lets hope no enemy finds a way to detect and shoot them down, because history shows that most top secret documents involving war and weopons , that it usually ends up in the wrong hands , then we need to update , thus the cycle continues.
And you can be sure if documents do fall into the wrong hands not only do they then have the potential to build these things against you , but also to find out a way to detect them, lets hope internal security is up to scratch...

 

[arsbanned]

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: arsbanned

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: dguy6789


2. They are the only plane in history that can travel at super sonic speeds without using an afterburner.

Some of your points are debatable, but I know this one is incorrect.

Ummm yeah, he's WAYYYYYYYY wrong. I don't think anything he said was accurate. Not even his nick. 😛

A supercruising aircraft is able to cruise at supersonic speeds without the use of afterburners.
Aircraft with supercruise include:

F/A-22 Raptor
Eurofighter Typhoon
Concorde
Although supercruise is currently fashionable, it is not new; the first aircraft to exceed Mach 1 in level flight without afterburners was the P.1 prototype of the English Electric Lightning on August 4, 1954.

He's only 50 years off though. 😛
Source

30 years ago the F-14 was able to enagage 11 distinct targets from hundreds of miles out. So multiple targeting is not new either.

DOing so without your enemy knowing you are even there is pretty good. Especially when doing it against our current air superiority fighter which is considered one of the best in the world.

I am sure the F-22 has the capability to target 11 or more targets at once as well. But since they only put it up as 4:1 odds it didnt get to show its colors.

The number of targets you can paint simultaneously is great but the F-14 only carried 4 Phoenix missiles so it could only engage 4 targets at a time.
I believe the F-22 will only carry up to 4 long range missiles too. Which would seem to indicate you could swarm the F-22 and defeat it with sheer numbers.

That would be correct, if the F-14 carried ONLY Pheonix missles. 😉

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: arsbanned

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: arsbanned

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: dguy6789


2. They are the only plane in history that can travel at super sonic speeds without using an afterburner.

Some of your points are debatable, but I know this one is incorrect.

I was under the impression the Phoenix was so large and heavy that 4 of them were a full weapons load by themselves.


Ummm yeah, he's WAYYYYYYYY wrong. I don't think anything he said was accurate. Not even his nick. 😛

A supercruising aircraft is able to cruise at supersonic speeds without the use of afterburners.
Aircraft with supercruise include:

F/A-22 Raptor
Eurofighter Typhoon
Concorde
Although supercruise is currently fashionable, it is not new; the first aircraft to exceed Mach 1 in level flight without afterburners was the P.1 prototype of the English Electric Lightning on August 4, 1954.

He's only 50 years off though. 😛
Source

30 years ago the F-14 was able to enagage 11 distinct targets from hundreds of miles out. So multiple targeting is not new either.

DOing so without your enemy knowing you are even there is pretty good. Especially when doing it against our current air superiority fighter which is considered one of the best in the world.

I am sure the F-22 has the capability to target 11 or more targets at once as well. But since they only put it up as 4:1 odds it didnt get to show its colors.

The number of targets you can paint simultaneously is great but the F-14 only carried 4 Phoenix missiles so it could only engage 4 targets at a time.
I believe the F-22 will only carry up to 4 long range missiles too. Which would seem to indicate you could swarm the F-22 and defeat it with sheer numbers.

That would be correct, if the F-14 carried ONLY Pheonix missles. 😉

 

[arsbanned]

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson

Originally posted by: halik
130mil a pop...damn

Now THAT would be an expensive *POP!*

This reminds me of the Serbians with banners reading "Sorry, we didn't know it was supposed to be invisible!", when they shot down an F-117, during the Kossovo conflict...

Hello, Slobodan. How's prison?

 

[judasmachine]

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: arsbanned

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: arsbanned

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: dguy6789


2. They are the only plane in history that can travel at super sonic speeds without using an afterburner.

Some of your points are debatable, but I know this one is incorrect.

I was under the impression the Phoenix was so large and heavy that 4 of them were a full weapons load by themselves.


Ummm yeah, he's WAYYYYYYYY wrong. I don't think anything he said was accurate. Not even his nick. 😛

A supercruising aircraft is able to cruise at supersonic speeds without the use of afterburners.
Aircraft with supercruise include:

F/A-22 Raptor
Eurofighter Typhoon
Concorde
Although supercruise is currently fashionable, it is not new; the first aircraft to exceed Mach 1 in level flight without afterburners was the P.1 prototype of the English Electric Lightning on August 4, 1954.

He's only 50 years off though. 😛
Source

30 years ago the F-14 was able to enagage 11 distinct targets from hundreds of miles out. So multiple targeting is not new either.

DOing so without your enemy knowing you are even there is pretty good. Especially when doing it against our current air superiority fighter which is considered one of the best in the world.

I am sure the F-22 has the capability to target 11 or more targets at once as well. But since they only put it up as 4:1 odds it didnt get to show its colors.

The number of targets you can paint simultaneously is great but the F-14 only carried 4 Phoenix missiles so it could only engage 4 targets at a time.
I believe the F-22 will only carry up to 4 long range missiles too. Which would seem to indicate you could swarm the F-22 and defeat it with sheer numbers.

That would be correct, if the F-14 carried ONLY Pheonix missles. 😉

F-14 with no room to spare, and 6 Phoenix missiles. Yup with more than four there isn't any room for anything else but the integral cannon.

 

[arsbanned]

F-14 A/A+/D ARMAMENT:
RMAMENT:

One General Electric M61A-1 Vulcan 20 mm gun mounted in the port side of forward fuselage, with 675 rounds of ammunition. Four AIM-7 Sparrow air-to-air missiles mounted partially submerged in the underfuselage, or four AIM-54 Phoenix missiles carried on special pallets which attach to the bottom of the fuselage. Two wing pylons, one under each fixed-wing section, can carry four AIM-9 Sidewinder missiles or, two Sparrow or Phoenix missiles with two Sidewinders. F-14D has bombing capability; Rockeye and CBU-59 cluster bombs validated for F-14 December 1992; GBU-16 LGB and Gator mine to follow;

So you've got the under fuselage stations plus the wing stations which can be set up a variety of ways. I've seen these
things bristling with air-air/air-surface configuration. This was in the 80s though. I was trying to point out that multiple target engagement is not a new thing, and am certainly not suggesting the F-14 compares with the new fighter, OBVIOUSLY. 🙂 I would HOPE it didn't, with all they've spent on it....

That is all.
Dan out.

 

[MadRat]

Originally posted by: slash196
Plus, most of those F-14 airframes are 30+ years old. It's simply time for a change. And with the capabilities this sucker has, 179 will be plenty.

JSF, not F-22A, are the replacements of the F-14A replacements, the F/A-18E and F/A-18F. And if memory serves right the last F-14 came off the assembly line in the mid-80's, so it would be around twenty years old which is younger than the F-15C's. And every F-14 converted to the F-14A standard had a major overhaul so its probably safe to fly them another twenty years with a little extension of the programs.

 

[arsbanned]

F-14 HISTORY:
First Flight (F-14A) 21 December 1970
(F-14D) 24 November 1987
Service Entry October 1972
Retirement

(F-14A) 8 September 2004
(F-14B) planned for November 2005
(F-14D) planned for May 2006

 

[arsbanned]

Originally posted by: MadRat

Originally posted by: slash196
Plus, most of those F-14 airframes are 30+ years old. It's simply time for a change. And with the capabilities this sucker has, 179 will be plenty.

<snip> And every F-14 converted to the F-14A standard had a major overhaul so its probably safe to fly them another twenty years with a little extension of the programs.

Actually, the first F-14 model was the "A"
They also produced a F-14A+ model with improved P&W engines. The"D" model has (much) improved GE engines.

Edit: Correction: The A+ actually had GE engines apparently, not P&W. Only the original F-14 A had the Pratt and Whitney engines.

 

[Rastus]

Don't forget, some of those F-14's had marine pilots. That alone will take 10 years off the lifespan of an airplane because of the overstressing of the airframe.

 

[MadRat]

F-14A+ upgraded airframes were all renamed back to the F-14A model.

Too bad there is such a major rift between the USN and USAF. The F-14A's would of made excellent fighter-bombers if they took a page from the F-111 book. The AF had an excellent delivery system for dumb bombs that allowed them to drop iron bombs into about 100 feet of CEP. The A-6 had a less advanced system that couldn't of really worked with the F-14, but the one attached to the F-111 was possible to adapt. The USN rejected private contractor suggestions and never even remotely investigated the proposal because they were so diehard to get the F/A-18 into full service. Any adaption of the F-14 to (more lethal*) a2g would of stifled F/A-18 procurement. Plenty of sea brass at the time had their retirements banked on the F/A-18 program. Cutting orders would of cut their kickbacks.

* it actually had some a2g capability, just not for CAS.

 

[CaptnKirk]

F-16

<Ft.Worth Star>

The story wasn't bannered across the front page of Wednesday's paper, but the report that the Greek government has signed a letter of offer and acceptance with the United States to buy additional F-16 fighter jets is huge news -- and not just for Fort Worth-based Lockheed Martin.
Given the financial impact that the aeronautics facility has on the entire North Texas economy when it's at full production, the agreement with the Hellenic Air Force to buy 30 F-16s -- with an option on 10 more -- is very good news.
Without this deal, Lockheed faced a potential gap in production as the F-16 line completed existing orders before full production of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter ramped up. The Greek contract will extend the F-16 line through 2009, and possibly through 2010 or beyond.
The HAF order is worth almost $2 billion, with about $1.2 billion going into Lockheed's coffers.
And The Associated Press forwarded a report from the daily El Mercurio in Santiago that Chile has reached an agreement to buy 18 used F-16s from the Netherlands. These planes would be in addition to 10 that Chile is buying directly from the United States.
Barring any unforeseen disasters that might derail these agreements, Lockheed Martin employees are looking forward to very happy holidays this year and for several years to come.

 

[MadRat]

That damn F-16 is turning into the "Mirage" of the 21st century. It wasn't too long ago that everyone off the top tier owned Mirages. Now almost all of the Mirages are getting junked and those second-teir and below are picking up used F-16A/B's for a song and a dance price. I feel sorry for the ones that pick them up without being on the export lists for spare parts. Kind of hard to fly the older models without a steady supply of parts, just ask Venezuela.

 

[Jediab]

When the F-22 took on the F-15s how was it done? Was it live flying or simulators?

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Jediab
When the F-22 took on the F-15s how was it done? Was it live flying or simulators?

Live flying excercise.

btw I think the B-52 will end up being the reigning champion of service. Entered service in 1954, planned date of decomission is 2040.

Nearly 90 years of service and the base of the bomber was designed in 1946.

 

[mackle]

Dear Secret Santa.
My dream is almost become truth which one day I will own an F-22 Raptor. I just heard that the government got their F-22s already so next year could be it. So can I get an F-22 as my present for next year please?? I'll try to be a really good boy this year.

 

[sandorski]

AA missiles? How quaint! Load up on Mavericks, fly into enemy space, take out Ground Targets, switch HUD to AA, wait for enemy fighters, and take them out with Cannons!


<<< played too much F19 😀

 

[MadRat]

JSOW is the better choice. Mavericks are so 1980's.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: MadRat
JSOW is the better choice. Mavericks are so 1980's.

ya, but that's when i played it.