The end of "MSRP" as we know it.

[NoStateofMind]

MSRP (Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price) IMO will be only something considered "novelty" in the video card market for some time to come. Sadly. It used to be you would get or expect gouging from places like newegg/zipzoomfly/mwave/insert any etailer here. Now it has gone further. Its not just at etailers but also at the board partners. IIRC EVGA used to sell all their video cards at MSRP regardless, until sold out. Now it seems they are superseding their MSRP to capitalize on demand. ATi (and their partners) have followed suit as well. I doubt we see any MSRP video cards anywhere in the near future. Comments are welcomed.

 

[Syntax Error]

Uh, there's no obligation for e-tailers to even honor MSRP. Manufacturers SUGGESTED Retail Price.

8800GT prices were jacked up in part with price gouging, I agree. Newegg, NCIX, ClubIt, whatever were jacking up the prices $10 every two hours on launch day.

However, I more attribute the ridiculous prices of 8800GT with supply issues. Theory of Economics. Supply and Demand has an inverse relationship with one another; if supply is low and demand is high, that's a combination for high prices.

 

[her34]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
MSRP (Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price) IMO will be only something considered "novelty" in the video card market for some time to come. Sadly. It used to be you would get or expect gouging from places like newegg/zipzoomfly/mwave/insert any etailer here. Now it has gone further. Its not just at etailers but also at the board partners. IIRC EVGA used to sell all their video cards at MSRP regardless, until sold out. Now it seems they are superseding their MSRP to capitalize on demand. ATi (and their partners) have followed suit as well. I doubt we see any MSRP video cards anywhere in the near future. Comments are welcomed.

the price gauging happened because of unique circumstances that aren't likely to repeat in the near future

in particular:

1) the previous mid-range products from both amd/nvidia were lacking performance, creating the perception of awesomeness in new mid-range products

2) one company rushing out limited quanities (8800gt) to get an early jump on the competition

3) the release of many quality games (call of duty 4, unreal tournament 3, crysis)

4) these things all happening right before xmas



in your post you seem to simply reason: they are price gauging now so they'll continue price gauging for a long time to come

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: Syntax Error
Uh, there's no obligation for e-tailers to even honor MSRP. Manufacturers SUGGESTED Retail Price.

8800GT prices were jacked up in part with price gouging, I agree. Newegg, NCIX, ClubIt, whatever were jacking up the prices $10 every two hours on launch day.

However, I more attribute the ridiculous prices of 8800GT with supply issues. Theory of Economics. Supply and Demand has an inverse relationship with one another; if supply is low and demand is high, that's a combination for high prices.

I wasn't arguing that there shouldn't be "gouging" by etailers, rather I stated it was expected. What I was pointing out was that not only etailers are doing it anymore. Board partners (EVGA/DIAMOND) have now started to follow suit. That was my point. In the past this was not the case, you could get it at one of the board partners at MSRP but you may have to wait for it to come back in stock.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: her34

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
MSRP (Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price) IMO will be only something considered "novelty" in the video card market for some time to come. Sadly. It used to be you would get or expect gouging from places like newegg/zipzoomfly/mwave/insert any etailer here. Now it has gone further. Its not just at etailers but also at the board partners. IIRC EVGA used to sell all their video cards at MSRP regardless, until sold out. Now it seems they are superseding their MSRP to capitalize on demand. ATi (and their partners) have followed suit as well. I doubt we see any MSRP video cards anywhere in the near future. Comments are welcomed.

the price gauging happened because of unique circumstances that aren't likely to repeat in the near future

in particular:

1) the previous mid-range products from both amd/nvidia were lacking performance, creating the perception of awesomeness in new mid-range products

2) one company rushing out limited quanities (8800gt) to get an early jump on the competition

3) the release of many quality games (call of duty 4, unreal tournament 3, crysis)

4) these things all happening right before xmas



in your post you seem to simply reason: they are price gauging now so they'll continue price gauging for a long time to come

Yeah I think they will continue to gouge/raise their MSRP (Board partners). The stage is set and you pointed out the reasons why. You did well. Neither camp is innocent I'm afraid.

 

[Syntax Error]

I wasn't arguing that there shouldn't be "gouging" by etailers, rather I stated it was expected. What I was pointing out was that not only etailers are doing it anymore. Board partners (EVGA/DIAMOND) have now started to follow suit. That was my point. In the past this was not the case, you could get it at one of the board partners at MSRP but you may have to wait for it to come back in stock.

Granted, I only point out the non-binding terms that "MSRP" entails, in that the 8800GT case may be a very rare and temporary case, as her34 pointed out. Let's hope for everyone's sake that this is the case and we won't have to go through this bullshit again in the near future.

 

[AzN]

Stop buying and the prices will fall. I think America is the only nation that does this. Selling over MSRP. I bet you East Asian countries don't jack up the prices.

 

[lopri]

I feel bad now having two 8800 GT's.. (one from Step-Up and one impulse from local BB.. 10% off under MSRP) I haven't even opened one of them. Was going to give to a brother as a gift.. Hmm..

 

[Cellulose]

Originally posted by: Azn
Stop buying and the prices will fall. I think America is the only nation that does this. Selling over MSRP. I bet you East Asian countries don't jack up the prices.

Well here in the UK the price is double on some cards so Im glad it doesnt get any higher 🙂

 

[nyker96]

Just look at the prices from say pricegraber.com all the company are selling the same product at different prices. Not only MSRP don't mean much, there's not even a fixed pricing. Some company like CompUSA//Circuit city has stores that attract novice buyers so they can sell their products at much higher price. Others internet based stores has more competitive pricing. If at any one point the demand/supply ratio changes, you can expect price change with that. So expect a fixed MSRP for all companies isn't going to happen. If they can sell an 8800GT at 290 why sell them at the MSRP of 250? but if say at some point ATI has a killer card that over shadows 8800GT then there ain't no way you can sell them at even the MSRP if say there's ample supply and few buyers.

 

[vanvock]

Yep, prices will be whatever the market will bear. As long as people line up to pay near $300 for a $200 card that's the way it will be. Don't blame the snake for biting you when you grab it by the tail. Impatience is expensive, it's really the consumer sticking it to themselves for playing into this trap. The "limited availability" is likley by design.

 

[her34]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: her34

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
MSRP (Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price) IMO will be only something considered "novelty" in the video card market for some time to come. Sadly. It used to be you would get or expect gouging from places like newegg/zipzoomfly/mwave/insert any etailer here. Now it has gone further. Its not just at etailers but also at the board partners. IIRC EVGA used to sell all their video cards at MSRP regardless, until sold out. Now it seems they are superseding their MSRP to capitalize on demand. ATi (and their partners) have followed suit as well. I doubt we see any MSRP video cards anywhere in the near future. Comments are welcomed.

the price gauging happened because of unique circumstances that aren't likely to repeat in the near future

in particular:

1) the previous mid-range products from both amd/nvidia were lacking performance, creating the perception of awesomeness in new mid-range products

2) one company rushing out limited quanities (8800gt) to get an early jump on the competition

3) the release of many quality games (call of duty 4, unreal tournament 3, crysis)

4) these things all happening right before xmas



in your post you seem to simply reason: they are price gauging now so they'll continue price gauging for a long time to come

Yeah I think they will continue to gouge/raise their MSRP (Board partners). The stage is set and you pointed out the reasons why. You did well. Neither camp is innocent I'm afraid.

reading is fundamental chicken little

 

[ronnn]

Looks like the 8800gt was released early in small numbers, with an unrealistic mrsp - because nvidia desperately needed something to compete. I am sure when production problems are ironed out, the price will drop. The 3800 series has been priced around mrsp in canada, but supply did run out at ncix for the 3870.

 

[vanvock]

Originally posted by: her34

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: her34

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
MSRP (Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price) IMO will be only something considered "novelty" in the video card market for some time to come. Sadly. It used to be you would get or expect gouging from places like newegg/zipzoomfly/mwave/insert any etailer here. Now it has gone further. Its not just at etailers but also at the board partners. IIRC EVGA used to sell all their video cards at MSRP regardless, until sold out. Now it seems they are superseding their MSRP to capitalize on demand. ATi (and their partners) have followed suit as well. I doubt we see any MSRP video cards anywhere in the near future. Comments are welcomed.

the price gauging happened because of unique circumstances that aren't likely to repeat in the near future

in particular:

1) the previous mid-range products from both amd/nvidia were lacking performance, creating the perception of awesomeness in new mid-range products

2) one company rushing out limited quanities (8800gt) to get an early jump on the competition

3) the release of many quality games (call of duty 4, unreal tournament 3, crysis)

4) these things all happening right before xmas



in your post you seem to simply reason: they are price gauging now so they'll continue price gauging for a long time to come

Yeah I think they will continue to gouge/raise their MSRP (Board partners). The stage is set and you pointed out the reasons why. You did well. Neither camp is innocent I'm afraid.

reading is fundamental chicken little

I guess that's a poke at me, right?

FYI, Bead Head: these boards are full of "smater than you" Aholes who think that after their injection it's /thread time which, as the market goes, puts you way below msrp. Dirt cheap actually.

 

[nubian1]

MSRP is just another thing a company can use to affect demand even if they fully know that in the retail space a very small quantity of their products will actually be sold for that price. It's like throwing a few bloody fish in a shark tank. There isn't enough for everyone to eat but they will still swarm like crazy most having to settle for scraps (In this case units at a price gouge levels).

 

[Aiden]

Originally posted by: lopri
I feel bad now having two 8800 GT's.. (one from Step-Up and one impulse from local BB.. 10% off under MSRP) I haven't even opened one of them. Was going to give to a brother as a gift.. Hmm..

sell it for 325$ on ebay and give your brother a 200$ gift cert instead😛

On a more serious note, yes MSRP is a joke. All you had to do was watch partner websites and watch MSRP go up as they realized demand was high. EVGA started at 230-260$ for the 4 8800gt cards, and then changed it several times on their website.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
MSRP (Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price) IMO will be only something considered "novelty" in the video card market for some time to come. Sadly. It used to be you would get or expect gouging from places like newegg/zipzoomfly/mwave/insert any etailer here. Now it has gone further. Its not just at etailers but also at the board partners. IIRC EVGA used to sell all their video cards at MSRP regardless, until sold out. Now it seems they are superseding their MSRP to capitalize on demand. ATi (and their partners) have followed suit as well. I doubt we see any MSRP video cards anywhere in the near future. Comments are welcomed.

I bought my EVGA 8800GT SSC at MSRP directly from EVGA.com. How are they charging more? They received a new stock and are still selling at that price.

Sorry, weak rant. It happens for all products when Demand is greater than Supply. Happen'd when the first AMD X2 cpu's came out. Was like that for the Toyota Prius and FJ Cruiser.

edit - Welcome to Capitalism. If you don't like it, move to North Korea.

 

[Avalon]

All of the ATI 3870 and 3850 cards I've seen for sale are at their MSRP of $219 and $179 respectively.

 

[Aiden]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
MSRP (Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price) IMO will be only something considered "novelty" in the video card market for some time to come. Sadly. It used to be you would get or expect gouging from places like newegg/zipzoomfly/mwave/insert any etailer here. Now it has gone further. Its not just at etailers but also at the board partners. IIRC EVGA used to sell all their video cards at MSRP regardless, until sold out. Now it seems they are superseding their MSRP to capitalize on demand. ATi (and their partners) have followed suit as well. I doubt we see any MSRP video cards anywhere in the near future. Comments are welcomed.

I bought my EVGA 8800GT SSC at MSRP directly from EVGA.com. How are they charging more? They received a new stock and are still selling at that price.

Sorry, weak rant. It happens for all products when Demand is greater than Supply. Happen'd when the first AMD X2 cpu's came out. Was like that for the Toyota Prius and FJ Cruiser.

edit - Welcome to Capitalism. If you don't like it, move to North Korea.

EVGA changed the MSRP on the 8800GT early on. your paying 40$ more for the same card from what was first listed on the evga site.

 

[gorobei]

Good grief people. Can't find it anymore but there was an article about motherboards and how one poor selling chipset screwed over a bunch of e-retailers. It explained how the whole component distribution and retail process works and explained general pricing(which shouldn't be a mystery after even if you only just got into building PCs this year.)

In short:
-chipdesigner comes out with new model.
-manufactures in china/taiwan make product with new chip.
-retailers/distributors view early product and place orders.
[To satisfy early adopters and enthusiast crowd, they ship in a small quantity by air freight(big fast plane) which is obviously MORE expensive. The bulk of the order is shipped by cheaper, slower overseas(bigger slow boat) shipping.]
-the retailers get the smaller air shipment first and the price reflects the increased cost of air shipping and consumer demand.
-the ship comes in and retailer now has plenty of product. The price then drops to msrp.


Nvidia is partially responsible for your poor impulse control, in that they started the whole "hard launch" process back with the gf6800 release a couple of years back. If you think it's hard to find a 8800gt now, you should have seen the older "soft launches." Reviewers would cover new cards and the product wouldn't hit the shelves until 6 to 8 months later.

 

[Phynaz]

Originally posted by: gorobei
Good grief people. Can't find it anymore but there was an article about motherboards and how one poor selling chipset screwed over a bunch of e-retailers. It explained how the whole component distribution and retail process works and explained general pricing(which shouldn't be a mystery after even if you only just got into building PCs this year.)

In short:
-chipdesigner comes out with new model.
-manufactures in china/taiwan make product with new chip.
-retailers/distributors view early product and place orders.
[To satisfy early adopters and enthusiast crowd, they ship in a small quantity by air freight(big fast plane) which is obviously MORE expensive. The bulk of the order is shipped by cheaper, slower overseas(bigger slow boat) shipping.]
-the retailers get the smaller air shipment first and the price reflects the increased cost of air shipping and consumer demand.
-the ship comes in and retailer now has plenty of product. The price then drops to msrp.


Nvidia is partially responsible for your poor impulse control, in that they started the whole "hard launch" process back with the gf6800 release a couple of years back. If you think it's hard to find a 8800gt now, you should have seen the older "soft launches." Reviewers would cover new cards and the product wouldn't hit the shelves until 6 to 8 months later.

Good post.

My employer sometimes has to arrange the same kind of shipping. To charter a Fed-Ex plane on short notice for one trip from Asia to the US is well above $1M.

 

[DaveSimmons]

ATI was even sending out card for review at one point without ever building any of that model for retail. The main AnandTech site was running disclaimers for a year or two after that, to warn readers that the ATI card or mobile chipset being covered might or might not ever be available for you to buy.

Yeah I think they will continue to gouge/raise their MSRP (Board partners). The stage is set and you pointed out the reasons why. You did well. Neither camp is innocent I'm afraid

No, as her34 pointed out this was a rare intersection of (poor supply) + (lackluster previous generation of cards) + (no competition) + (a bunch of new games).

That means it's not likely to happen again with next year's models of cards, nor in following years.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
ATI was even sending out card for review at one point without ever building any of that model for retail. The main AnandTech site was running disclaimers for a year or two after that, to warn readers that the ATI card or mobile chipset being covered might or might not ever be available for you to buy.

Yeah I think they will continue to gouge/raise their MSRP (Board partners). The stage is set and you pointed out the reasons why. You did well. Neither camp is innocent I'm afraid

No, as her34 pointed out this was a rare intersection of (poor supply) + (lackluster previous generation of cards) + (no competition) + (a bunch of new games).

That means it's not likely to happen again with next year's models of cards, nor in following years.

What I'm saying is when a new 8800GTS is released ($350-$399 MSRP?) they will start at that price, maybe. With the 8800GT selling at $300 do you think that MSRP for a new GTS will stick? I don't think so. Those reasons supplied above will continue into 2008 IMO. Again, I'm talking about EVGA/BFG/DIAMOND and such, not newegg/zipzoomfly.

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

The "big boat" mentioned will probably arrive in the next week or 2 for e-tailers. Then prices will drop due to a large supply.

Edit: Newegg's pricing goes by stock automatically (except for some products). As the 8800 GT's sold more, Newegg's prices went up and up due to a lower supply. The HD 3870 is likely being kept at the same price because a large supply is imminent and ATi wants Newegg (a big e-tailer) to keep them competitive.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
ATI was even sending out card for review at one point without ever building any of that model for retail. The main AnandTech site was running disclaimers for a year or two after that, to warn readers that the ATI card or mobile chipset being covered might or might not ever be available for you to buy.

Yeah I think they will continue to gouge/raise their MSRP (Board partners). The stage is set and you pointed out the reasons why. You did well. Neither camp is innocent I'm afraid

No, as her34 pointed out this was a rare intersection of (poor supply) + (lackluster previous generation of cards) + (no competition) + (a bunch of new games).

That means it's not likely to happen again with next year's models of cards, nor in following years.

What I'm saying is when a new 8800GTS is released ($350-$399 MSRP?) they will start at that price, maybe. With the 8800GT selling at $300 do you think that MSRP for a new GTS will stick? I don't think so. Those reasons supplied above will continue into 2008 IMO. Again, I'm talking about EVGA/BFG/DIAMOND and such, not newegg/zipzoomfly.

Possibly into early 2008, but I'd guess only if the new 88xx GTS/GTX model is in low supply compared to the much smaller demand for $500 cards.

If there aren't any major problems with chip yields, it's going to be much easier for nvidia to supply enough $500 cards than it was the $250 cards, especially since the $250 cards will have been out for months by then.