The elite liberals and racism

[Moonbeam]

So in real terms, how does one stand in the middle of the highway and surrender? Yes I understand that it would be the death of ego, but how does one go about surrendering moment to moment? You see what I am trying to get at?

There is nowhere to go, nothing to do, nothing to become. Everybody is enlightened. Everything is perfect. I am saying relax and you demand I tell you how to maintain tight control. How. Do you relax if your ego says it needs to find a way to relax. The feeling of need is the prison. There is no need. No need and your there. That is surrender. Surrender the need to surrender. Do you remember moments playing as a child when everything was perfect? What do puppies experience when they play. What would be a reason for monks to become aware of breathing. Why are vacations sometimes memorable. What is it like to fear to ask a girl out and she asks you? At the end of ones rope one clings the tightest. It is when we cling the tightest that the shift in awareness, of consciousness, between holding on and letting go is most extreme and produces the greatest resolution, the biggest ah ha possible. This is experience of a shift in conscious state, not an intellectual understanding to be had by the ego.

 

[Moonbeam]

There is nowhere to go, nothing to do, nothing to become. Everybody is enlightened. Everything is perfect. I am saying relax and you demand I tell you how to maintain tight control. How. Do you relax if your ego says it needs to find a way to relax. The feeling of need is the prison. There is no need. No need and your there. That is surrender. Surrender the need to surrender. Do you remember moments playing as a child when everything was perfect? What do puppies experience when they play. What would be a reason for monks to become aware of breathing. Why are vacations sometimes memorable. What is it like to fear to ask a girl out and she asks you? At the end of ones rope one clings the tightest. It is when we cling the tightest that the shift in awareness, of consciousness, between holding on and letting go is most extreme and produces the greatest resolution, the biggest ah ha possible. This is experience of a shift in conscious state, not an intellectual understanding to be had by the ego.

Moon, a little anecdote if you will. The other day I was sitting in a parking lot. This guy came out of a hair salon and before getting into this vehicle, stood next to it and started brushing hair off his body with his hands. The head, shoulders, arms, back...and then repeat. It went on and on. I was thinking...what a weird guy. He is so attached to his car, looks like he identifies himself with it. Something along those lines. But then I caught myself - am *I* not identifying myself with the ego as well? That I am not weird like him. You see what I am trying to get at? It is so very hard *not* to identify with your ego. To just accept the moment, surrender to it as you say. How?

There is a Sufi saying, Who should not criticize? You.

I take that to mean that criticism is belief that is delusion. Oddly enough I just picked up a book that was sitting on my desk I want to read sometime from the same author I got that quote from. The name of the book is The Commanding Self and I just noticed this on the jacket:

“The commanding self , in Sufi terminology, is that mixture of primitive and conditional responses, common to everyone, which inhibits and distorts human progress and understanding.”

My guess is that those are just some words that suggest something much more than those word can reveal.

The general idea of a book or a teaching designed to educate us on how we operate implies that the more our understanding grows the less unaware we become. I am just a nobody who lost his religious faith and found what I think is the fountain from which religion springs. It seems to me there are traditional methodologies more or less suited to modern day people who may know what I really don’t know, how to teach. The art of teaching is not the same as having some experience that changed how I see things.

 

[Noah Abrams]

The art of teaching is not the same as having some experience that changed how I see things.

Yes some things can’t be taught. But perhaps there are sign posts that can be used by others

If I may, how did your first experience come about, if there was one? Or was it a slow gradual experience over a period of time

 

[FerrelGeek]

Your larger point isn't about racism, it's about the elitist disdain for the plebes, which does cross party lines. So dispense with the bullshit, and put your wedge and sledge down.

I agree with you on this point. Also, this is one of the things that feeds so-called 'anti intellectualism'.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Funny. This describes most of the libs on here. This attitude is also one of the reasons for so-called 'anti intellectualism'.

No, we call you all sorts of things because you're a sanctimonious know-it-all who acts as if he has unique insight into how the world works, and that people who disagree with you just haven't been 'enlightened' yet.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Sure, and to the right, racism isn't racism depending on whose doing it.

As long as you are the victim you can't be racist, right, victim21?

Your last line is what liberal minority SJWs use to justify their racism not being racism.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Oh yes, my white buddies and I talk about all the lynchings we've done regularly. We get together, drink our Bud light, and show the vids we made of them darkies danglin' in the wind for touchin' our blonde daughters.

The above is sarcasm / ridicule for the sake of the idiots on here who are incapable of recognizing it. Your stupid comment about lynching is why non-liberals don't take people like you seriously. Your comment is what the lib pseudo-elites actually think, which is another reason for so-called 'anti intellectualism'.

racism on the left is going home to your husband and talking smack on your mexican neighbor for playing his music too loud.

racism on the right is going home and lynching your black neighbor and then voting for closed borders because you're afraid some mexican is going to rob you at night.

 

[fskimospy]

Oh yes, my white buddies and I talk about all the lynchings we've done regularly. We get together, drink our Bud light, and show the vids we made of them darkies danglin' in the wind for touchin' our blonde daughters.

The above is sarcasm / ridicule for the sake of the idiots on here who are incapable of recognizing it. Your stupid comment about lynching is why non-liberals don't take people like you seriously. Your comment is what the lib pseudo-elites actually think, which is another reason for so-called 'anti intellectualism'.

You're really hung up on this 'anti intellectualism' thing.

If you want to believe stupid things and act in stupid ways because you think it will pwn the libs that look down on you I guess that's your business. It's kind of a dumb reason to do things though and it seems like it kind of justifies their low opinion of you, haha.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Here's a bitter pill for you libs to swallow. Your lib elitist only care about black people and illegals because they see them as a potential voter block. If by some chance the black people in this country turn away from the dems and the illegals showed signs of not voting for dems if they were given the right, the lib elites would kick them to the curb and they'd steamroll over Trump to build the wall.

 

[Moonbeam]

Yes some things can’t be taught. But perhaps there are sign posts that can be used by others

If I may, how did your first experience come about, if there was one? Or was it a slow gradual experience over a period of time

I already described that to you in a previous post somewhere quite recently on the forum.

 

[fskimospy]

Here's a bitter pill for you libs to swallow. Your lib elitist only care about black people and illegals because they see them as a potential voter block. If by some chance the black people in this country turn away from the dems and the illegals showed signs of not voting for dems if they were given the right, the lib elites would kick them to the curb and they'd steamroll over Trump to build the wall.

This is some pretty hard core projection you've got going on here. It's pretty telling that you think liberals would only pursue a more just country in order to get votes instead of viewing a more just country to be a worthy goal all on its own.

Maybe black and Hispanic people disproportionately vote for Democrats because Republicans have come an explicitly racist, white nationalist party. Shocking that Hispanics wouldn't vote for someone who categorized them as rapists, I know.

 

[Starbuck1975]

This isn’t seeing what you believe?

No While bias may sometimes influence perception, there are also times when observations are simply just that.

How do you see yourself if not as believing you believe what is true? Isn’t that exactly how you see it?

Not if viewed objectively

How do you maintain that when the overt racists are back in their holes, whatever it is that you see those to be, that underlying socioeconomic conditions you believe you see will persist to impede the swallowing of a more bitter pill, is a fact for you because that’s how you see it? Where is the bitterness for you in that pill, by the way?

The bitterness is in knowing that racism persists because, like any issue tied to identity, it is easily exploitable independent of political allegiance.

What I have expressed in this thread so far is that the beliefs that we hold are moral in nature and because they are unconsciously held are not amenable to rational analysis, and thus they operate as bigotry in all of those cases where the root cause of such belief was the result of fear induced conditioning and a need to please. This I have also described as creating a motive to believe and a motive to deny this so called reality I am here saying I see.

I don’t think there is a moral component to making objective observations around sanctimony.

I have further stated that if this is true, then, that what we believe is there to protect us from the fear that comes with doubt in our moral certainty, that we actually know nothing and everything we believe in is a smokescreen, a protection from a much more bitter bill than the one you believe you see so you don’t have to tee this one.

Who then knows what is truth?

And this is why I would add your word ‘lecturing’ to the list of things you believe because you see but is not really there.

That’s fair

So I believe that belief creates our reality, a prison of our own making and as soon as the socioeconomic causes of racism are fixed racism will take a new form

I read an article once that the prosperity of the 1950s is what enabled the civil rights era...that when the majority or those in positions of power or privilege are content, that it allows for progress on issues of social justice. The problem we have today is that beliefs central to American identity...meritocracy and social mobility...are essentially dead, which makes race an exploitable exposed nerve relative to identity.

 

[brycejones]

Congrats to the OP for providing a space where the usual "I'm not a racist but" crowd has felt free to blame everyone else for their racism.

 

[Noah Abrams]

Here's a bitter pill for you libs to swallow. Your lib elitist only care about black people and illegals because they see them as a potential voter block. If by some chance the black people in this country turn away from the dems and the illegals showed signs of not voting for dems if they were given the right, the lib elites would kick them to the curb and they'd steamroll over Trump to build the wall.

Unfortunately, there is a quite a bit of truth in the above. I was in the company of several immigrants (either full immigrants or on visa here) the other day and the talk turned to about more merit based vs less family based immigration. About eliminating some categories of family based in favor of more merit based. Most of the guys wanted it that way. I meekly suggested that would not be possible politically. "Of course not! The Democrats won't allow it because that would mean less votes for them" was the immediate reply of one guy. I thought that was quite instructive and revealing.

 

[Moonbeam]

Here's a bitter pill for you libs to swallow. Your lib elitist only care about black people and illegals because they see them as a potential voter block. If by some chance the black people in this country turn away from the dems and the illegals showed signs of not voting for dems if they were given the right, the lib elites would kick them to the curb and they'd steamroll over Trump to build the wall.

What utter rubis. Imigrants are the natural allies of conservatives having escaped from conservative cultures but bring with them the same mental attitued they are trying to escape. Hispanics would probably vote conservative by vast majorities if Republicans weren't such obvious hateful racists. And they will become more conservatrive the more the Republican party becomes extinct. Liberals operate on the moral values of fairness and equality and republican group think destroyed that for them regarding outsiders. Liberals aren't such hypocrits and will vote truth against their own personal interests more than conservatives will.

 

[woolfe9998]

Here's a bitter pill for you libs to swallow. Your lib elitist only care about black people and illegals because they see them as a potential voter block. If by some chance the black people in this country turn away from the dems and the illegals showed signs of not voting for dems if they were given the right, the lib elites would kick them to the curb and they'd steamroll over Trump to build the wall.

Yeah? What the f**k do you know about what is motivating other people who you aren't even acquainted with? Either you are legitimately telepathic or you're behaving like an arrogant douche. Since my pro-science attitude makes me skeptical of claims of psychic abilities, I'm going with the latter.

 

[fskimospy]

Unfortunately, there is a quite a bit of truth in the above. I was in the company of several immigrants (either full immigrants or on visa here) the other day and the talk turned to about more merit based vs less family based immigration. About eliminating some categories of family based in favor of more merit based. Most of the guys wanted it that way. I meekly suggested that would not be possible politically. "Of course not! The Democrats won't allow it because that would mean less votes for them" was the immediate reply of one guy. I thought that was quite instructive and revealing.

Wow, you know immigrants AND Muslims? Such a worldly man. I hear you also live in a big city, which is very impressive as well.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I agree with you on this point. Also, this is one of the things that feeds so-called 'anti intellectualism'.

I cant justify anti intellectual attitudes and choices, it's self defeating in every way. Regardless of how someone looks down on you, education makes a difference in almost every facet of life.

 

[ivwshane]

Here's a bitter pill for you libs to swallow. Your lib elitist only care about black people and illegals because they see them as a potential voter block. If by some chance the black people in this country turn away from the dems and the illegals showed signs of not voting for dems if they were given the right, the lib elites would kick them to the curb and they'd steamroll over Trump to build the wall.

That's some mighty strong projection there.

Although, I do remember Hillary looking into the camera and telling black people, "what do you have to lose", while she provided literally zero policies that would help your average black person. That's how you remembered it too, right?

Its those damn liberal elites that are the problem! Why can't they be like Republicans and who bring their elites out from the shadows and put them to work in government? Why can't the liberal elites pass legislation like the Republicans who help everyone like they did with their tax cuts? I can feel the $60 dollars a year difference, why can't they? If only the elite liberals could use the EPA to actually do things like provide clean drinking water like the EPA does under Republican control?

I'm with you on this one ferrelgeek, I too think things would be better if we all stuck our head in the sand!

/s

 

[ivwshane]

Yeah? What the f**k do you know about what is motivating other people who you aren't even acquainted with? Either you are legitimately telepathic or you're behaving like an arrogant douche. Since my pro-science attitude makes me skeptical of claims of psychic abilities, I'm going with the latter.

You see, if you weren't such a liberal elite, you too, would be able to know what motivates other people.


/s

 

[Moonbeam]

No While bias may sometimes influence perception, there are also times when observations are simply just that.

Not if based on unconscious unexamined assumptions;

Not if viewed objectively

If if if

The bitterness is in knowing that racism persists because, like any issue tied to identity, it is easily exploitable independent of political allegiance.

How can bitterness and objectivity co-exist?

I don’t think there is a moral component to making objective observations around sanctimony.

We call observations made objectively about reality objective observations. We call moral evaluations about people being sanctimonious relative to their moral values.

Who then knows what is truth?

The truth may be that we don't know what it is and that's the truth.

I read an article once that the prosperity of the 1950s is what enabled the civil rights era...that when the majority or those in positions of power or privilege are content, that it allows for progress on issues of social justice. The problem we have today is that beliefs central to American identity...meritocracy and social mobility...are essentially dead, which makes race an exploitable exposed nerve relative to identity.

I agree. Conservatism manifests with fear and uncertainty. But in my opinion that just means that whatever evokes fear and uncertainty from time to time and place to place is just the local expression of any number of potential triggers. To me that means the important piece of data isn't that fixing the environment is the answer, although it can't help but help, but that rather people who understand themselves aren't subject to such manipulation. My contention that for a lack of better words 'enlightened' people can't be manipulated by external triggers having died to the belief in such triggers.

 

[ivwshane]

Unfortunately, there is a quite a bit of truth in the above. I was in the company of several immigrants (either full immigrants or on visa here) the other day and the talk turned to about more merit based vs less family based immigration. About eliminating some categories of family based in favor of more merit based. Most of the guys wanted it that way. I meekly suggested that would not be possible politically. "Of course not! The Democrats won't allow it because that would mean less votes for them" was the immediate reply of one guy. I thought that was quite instructive and revealing.

So let me get this straight. Immigrants who are here legally and who can vote, would not vote against their interests and you think that's a negative against Democrats for not supporting policies their constituents don't support? Hmm...that's some brilliant insight there. What's next? Are you going to tell us that the only reason NRA, anti abortion, and religious people vote for Republicans is because Republicans support their political positions on such subjects? Lol

What's telling is that apparently you hang out with people who are just as unintelligent and are just as incapable of critical thinking as you. Quite instructive and revealing indeed!

 

[Thebobo]

Here's a bitter pill for you libs to swallow. Your lib elitist only care about black people and illegals because they see them as a potential voter block. If by some chance the black people in this country turn away from the dems and the illegals showed signs of not voting for dems if they were given the right, the lib elites would kick them to the curb and they'd steamroll over Trump to build the wall.

Didnt you mean you? Cause I don't own any Lib elitist.

 

[Moonbeam]

You see, if you weren't such a liberal elite, you too, would be able to know what motivates other people.


/s

As a liberal elite I know what motivates everybody because I know what motivates me. This doesn't require psychic ability. I think it requires need. You can work up some pretty intense need if you feel like the possibility of ever being happy has ended. Lots of raw pain.

 

[bshole]

Here's a bitter pill for you libs to swallow. Your lib elitist only care about black people and illegals because they see them as a potential voter block. If by some chance the black people in this country turn away from the dems and the illegals showed signs of not voting for dems if they were given the right, the lib elites would kick them to the curb and they'd steamroll over Trump to build the wall.

I believe that to be true now as well. This represents a rather large worldview change for me.

The data to me could not be more clear. When I look at income inequality by state, the worst ten include Democratic states, New York at number 1 and California at number 7. When at I look at the poverty rate adjusted for cost of living I see California at the top with a staggering 24% with New York a bit better at 18% (my own state of Wisconsin has a poverty rate of 10%, my state also has some of the least wealth inequality). When I then look at economic security, I once again run into New York and California in the bottom 12.

Democrats have had DECADES in these states to address these issues via a progressive income tax and creation of more housing aimed at the middle and lower classes. They have not done this patently obvious step. This brings us to today where they have jumped into identity politics sewer with Republicans to incite enmity between the races. It is a good diversion for them. It of course does not a damn thing to help the people they purportedly want to help but is certainly effective in telling them who they should hate. Tribalism 101 for the win y'all.

I have been watching a lot of debates between professors lately about the collapse of civilizations. The people I watched pointed out two characteristics of collapsing civilizations.

1. Relative wealth inequality within a society. America now has more wealth inequality than at any time in its history. It is worse now that it was before the Great Depression. America is breaking into a caste system where the powerful own political puppets who do nothing except for those controlling them. It looks like it is now a political impossibility to ever address the wealth inequality. The Democrats seem to only speak on this topic in the realm of race. If they spoke of it in terms of CLASS and spoke of it every day for a year to the exclusion of damn near everything else and truly advocated for a strong progressive tax, I believe they would win in a landslide. I believe this is what society wants most and what is being denied to them. There is a reason that they have lost 9% of millennials in the last year and it has much to do with what the Democratic Party is talking about and what they are not talking about.

2. Scarcity of resources. We seem pretty safe on this one at the moment. Wonder what will happen when China/India start consuming resources at our level.

The other thing that was kind of frightening was the assertion that as collapse occurs, tribalism always comes back and accelerates the process The Middle East is an exceptional evidence of that. Tribalism is both a symptom and a cause of civilization death. It is the canary in the coal mine.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-millennials-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN1I10YH
https://www.mercatus.org/statefiscalrankings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_poverty_rate
https://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/income-inequality-states-biggest-wealth-gaps.html/?a=viewall