13 with another two or three that can be redeployed very quickly, and about another 5 that can be retrofitted and serviceable in about a year, from my rough understanding. Plus two or three being built. The US navy has an amount of military dominance unmatched in history, the entire rest of the worlds navies would hardly be a match. That said i really have no problem with having an outrageously unbalanced navy.
13 with another two or three that can be redeployed very quickly, and about another 5 that can be retrofitted and serviceable in about a year, from my rough understanding. Plus two or three being built. The US navy has an amount of military dominance unmatched in history, the entire rest of the worlds navies would hardly be a match. That said i really have no problem with having an outrageously unbalanced navy.
the stability would probably help reduce oil prices in the case of a muslim theocracy. We cdon't worry about oil supply from iran or sa do we?
*realistically, as opposed to tinfoil hat bs.
way to take something i said and use it in a completely different meaning. I've editted my post to clarify.
- Jan 3, 2001
- 41,920
- 2,161
- 126
Well, in a way, he's right. They passed a bill preventing funding for any "non-green" energy production in the US. We have the largest oil shale deposits in the world and can't use them (one estimate is we could run the country for 300 years on it).
That would definately make a stop gap until they get fuel cells, solar, and other alternative energy sources ready for prime time.
Too bad oil shale is very difficult to tap. The Bakken fields have about 300billion barrels, with only 1-10% of it being usable.
The problem is that we don't already have the infrastructure. We don't have the refining capacity, we don't have the wells built, we don't have a pipeline. The oil that you're talking about is effectively out of reach for the next 5-10 years.
It is not a solution. Maybe it can be a solution to some future recession, but not to this one.
ponyo
Lifer
- Feb 14, 2002
- 19,688
- 2,811
- 126
I think it's going to be worse than what most people think and longer than people think. Credit bubble didn't happen overnight and it won't end overnight. But nothing goes down in straight line so the journey will be long and painful. There will be hint of recovery to get people's hopes up and suck doubters in only to be proved false.
Debt makes you weak and is killer in this environment. People should reduce or eliminate debt and hunker down.
Debt makes you weak and is killer in this environment. People should reduce or eliminate debt and hunker down.
If the rest of the world had 100 ships (total), would it be better that we have 10,000 ships or 100,000 ships? Let's say each ship is identical, just to make the comparison more obvious.
There comes a point where additional military spending is not just unbalanced, but superfluous. Why do we need to outmatch the rest of the world's navies by more than a factor of 5? We can already drop a fleet in any sea in the world in less than a day. What's the point in having more than that?
Where do we stop? 10x more boats than the rest of the world? 100x? 1000x? How much is outrageous enough?
Modelworks
Lifer
- Feb 22, 2007
- 16,240
- 7
- 76
0roo0roo
No Lifer
- Sep 21, 2002
- 64,795
- 84
- 91
no ones talking 1000x
we have a reasonable number of carriers, as said, not all can be used at once, they have to be maintained. certain % of military assets area always offline. we aren't building 10x more, more like about 5x more. and of course theres efficiencies in scale so it doesn't really cost that much more. if you buy 1 the r&d costs will inflate the cost big time. as a % of gdp its just not that much.
you could probably say much of the rest of the west actually spends too little. they aren't meeting their nato obligation of 2% gdp for defense. in Afghanistan the "allies" apparently show their underfunding with decreased capability. as for south korea, it got to build its military because we had the ability to protect it
and well... isolationism... after ww1 we scrapped our military. and you see how well that went, uk had to fight alone for quite a while because we had the military equivalent of some dinky eastern european state at the time.
Svnla
Lifer
- Nov 10, 2003
- 17,986
- 1,388
- 126
Right now I am saving money and watch my dime at every turn even though I am making decent money and my job is safe <government related>. I am putting off for a new house for now, even I have the down payment, credit, and job.
Even I am always a saver and not a spender, I still feel the pains now because of lower savings/investments returns and higher costs for gas, foods, healthcare insurance/etc.
About the future of the US, I worry about how people from the US <especially the youngs> can compete in a global market with the Chinese/Indians/others with their work ethics and skills. Too many of us still in the entitlement/spend now/buy more/don't worry about the future or saving/etc. mode.
I know not all of them are like that. The best of the US can compete with anyone. I am talking about the average person.
Even I am always a saver and not a spender, I still feel the pains now because of lower savings/investments returns and higher costs for gas, foods, healthcare insurance/etc.
About the future of the US, I worry about how people from the US <especially the youngs> can compete in a global market with the Chinese/Indians/others with their work ethics and skills. Too many of us still in the entitlement/spend now/buy more/don't worry about the future or saving/etc. mode.
I know not all of them are like that. The best of the US can compete with anyone. I am talking about the average person.
Scarpozzi
Lifer
- Jun 13, 2000
- 26,392
- 1,780
- 126
1. We have a government that doesn't want to fix the oil crisis. Too many politicians are making money from the oil companies. Speaking of oil companies, we rely too much on foreign oil....we are paying what they want us to. Eventually, the price will rise until people can no longer pay it. When that happens, there is going to be more supply because demand will fall and the price will eventually stablize. Simple economics. Do you think the Chinese citizens that can afford cars will be able to pay $4.00+ a gallon? Maybe....maybe not.
The people who are going to suffer the most here are those making minimum wage. They'll be forced to pay higher food prices due to gas prices fueling inflation. Something's gotta give in the next year. I just don't know when or how. I'm already stocking up on beans and rice.
2. It's an election year and there is a lot of certainty that Bush can't be re-elected. This increases the odds that policy is going to change more drasticly. Change can be good, but ususally its bad for an economy because it fuels doubt. 12 months from now, that doubt will slowly start to disappear.
3. The housing market is getting what it deserved. I have no sympathy for those who got stuck in it, but do feel for those in places like California and Michigan because some had few choices. I just can't believe the "value" they're able to slap on a home that is practically on a fault line.
My advice for everyone is to start paying off debt as soon as you can. Try to get your monthly expenses down and hold on for the ride. Things are bad, but we've all seen them worse... It's just difficult to get used to eating out every night, taking long drives for fun, and flying somewhere on vacation..........then having to stop because of inflated prices.
The people who are going to suffer the most here are those making minimum wage. They'll be forced to pay higher food prices due to gas prices fueling inflation. Something's gotta give in the next year. I just don't know when or how. I'm already stocking up on beans and rice.
2. It's an election year and there is a lot of certainty that Bush can't be re-elected. This increases the odds that policy is going to change more drasticly. Change can be good, but ususally its bad for an economy because it fuels doubt. 12 months from now, that doubt will slowly start to disappear.
3. The housing market is getting what it deserved. I have no sympathy for those who got stuck in it, but do feel for those in places like California and Michigan because some had few choices. I just can't believe the "value" they're able to slap on a home that is practically on a fault line.
My advice for everyone is to start paying off debt as soon as you can. Try to get your monthly expenses down and hold on for the ride. Things are bad, but we've all seen them worse... It's just difficult to get used to eating out every night, taking long drives for fun, and flying somewhere on vacation..........then having to stop because of inflated prices.
TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2004
- 16,852
- 59
- 86
The problem is not the economy, it's perception and expectations. Somehow people have come to expect that the economic growth we've experienced over the last decade or so is the norm and should continue unabated. But what we've seen in the last 10 years is the exception, not the rule. Now we're returning to some normalcy.
Welcome to the world of the real.
Welcome to the world of the real.
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
no ones talking 1000x
we have a reasonable number of carriers, as said, not all can be used at once, they have to be maintained. certain % of military assets area always offline. we aren't building 10x more, more like about 5x more. and of course theres efficiencies in scale so it doesn't really cost that much more. if you buy 1 the r&d costs will inflate the cost big time. as a % of gdp its just not that much.
you could probably say much of the rest of the west actually spends too little. they aren't meeting their nato obligation of 2% gdp for defense. in Afghanistan the "allies" apparently show their underfunding with decreased capability. as for south korea, it got to build its military because we had the ability to protect it
There's a huge difference between almost no military and a military that can defeat the entire world 10x over. It's a lot of wasted money that could be better spent elsewhere (science, education, sensible healthcare system, etc.). Science budgets got slashed again this year.
WHY are we building 2-3 supercarriers? Why do we need them? That's a TON of money that would be better spent elsewhere. R&D costs are one thing, but actually building the ship is also a huge expense (followed by the years of maintenance costs). All I see is a ton of money being thrown away on a few more boats that we don't need.
We already have an excessive navy, WTF? How about we NOT build those extra 2-3 supercarriers and instead lay the infrastructure for converting the SW states to solar power? The cost of one supercarrier could probably fund enough research and infrastructure development to have half of the country on 50-75% solar power within 5 years. THAT will get us off oil.
Military spending is a disproportional chunk of the budget, and that's during PEACE conditions. How about throwing a few more % toward other important areas? Having the world's biggest military 5x over is a great thing, but how about we try to be #1 in a few other things, too?
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