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The Earth moves 15cm further from the Sun each year.

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Originally posted by: fleshconsumed
Well, it looks like our Global Warming problem is solved.

Yes, I'm having Futurama flashbacks.
Click to expand...

Announcer: Every year we drop a giant block of ice into the ocean...
Girl: Just like Daddy puts in his drink in the morning... and then he gets mad
...

Announcer: Thus solving global warming once and for all
Girl: ...but...
Announcer: ONCE AND FOR ALL!!
 
In Earth Science back in HS we learned that the Earth's orbit is an ellipse with the Sun has just one foci (the other is in empty space). So I guessing the number they gave was an average. From Wiki: aphelion 152,097,701 km and perihelion 147,098,074 km. With a variation of almost 5 million km in 6 months, I find it hard to believe that they are measuring a 15cm difference. Though I don't doubt that the earth's orbit is expanding, just the numbers they measure.
 
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Originally posted by: lxskllr
Interesting. I wonder what'll happen first; we lose orbit, or the sun burns up....
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We're not going to "lose orbit", we'll become tidally locked with the sun. This means the Earth will be rotating at a rate of 1 rotation per year, and half of the Earth will never see the sun. Of course none of this is news, we've know about this for a couple of hundred years.

And to be honest I'm not sure which will happen first, but I suspect the tidal lock will happen before the Sun goes red giant.
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And really, who cares? We will be all dead by then and there's not a damn thing we could do about it.
 
Originally posted by: JTsyo
In Earth Science back in HS we learned that the Earth's orbit is an ellipse with the Sun has just one foci (the other is in empty space). So I guessing the number they gave was an average. From Wiki: aphelion 152,097,701 km and perihelion 147,098,074 km. With a variation of almost 5 million km in 6 months, I find it hard to believe that they are measuring a 15cm difference. Though I don't doubt that the earth's orbit is expanding, just the numbers they measure.
Click to expand...

Well you'd certainly know better than those snooty astrophysicists. You did Earth Science in high school.
 
Originally posted by: SagaLore
Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
it's not moving further. it's burning out and getting smaller.
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Actually as it burns out, it gets larger.
Click to expand...

As it releases energy it's mass has to decrease.

It gets larger and hotter as it gradually begins fusing helium or something.
 
The sun's own diameter is not even fixed. Plus I doubt the technology exists to measure these astronomic distances so accurately. It's not even that easy to measure the length of certain things here on Earth, like mountains.
 
Originally posted by: xboxist
I love how we have the technology to to calculate the distance to the Sun down to a thousandth of a kilometer and explore the solar system, but we still haven't thoroughly explored our own planet's oceans yet.
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The pressure differential between atmosphere and space is just a tad bit less than that between atmosphere and deep ocean. 🙂



Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Originally posted by: EKKC
i didnt click on the link, but, can it be possible that the sun is burning nonstop and losing its diameter at a rate of 30cm/year?

just a thought... just a thought.
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/facepalm
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Well the Sun does lose many millions of tons of mass per second.


Originally posted by: dainthomas
Originally posted by: SagaLore
Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
it's not moving further. it's burning out and getting smaller.
Click to expand...

Actually as it burns out, it gets larger.
Click to expand...

As it releases energy it's mass has to decrease.

It gets larger and hotter as it gradually begins fusing helium or something.
Click to expand...
Yup. I think that as it starts fusing heavier elements, it generates less heat, which doesn't generate sufficient pressure to hold the plasma sphere against its own gravity. The outer layers puff off, and the inside contracts into a white dwarf.
Buy real estate on Mercury - by then, maybe it'll be a bit cooler there. Sure it'll still be a vacuum, but, you know, it's not metal-meltingly hot anymore. 😛

 
But Takaho Miura of Hirosaki University in Japan and three colleagues think they have the answer. In an article submitted to the European journal Astronomy & Astrophysics, they argue that the sun and Earth are literally pushing each other away due to their tidal interaction.
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This is news? I thought this was well known??
 
Originally posted by: EKKC
i didnt click on the link, but, can it be possible that the sun is burning nonstop and losing its diameter at a rate of 30cm/year?

just a thought... just a thought.
Click to expand...

Not quite. The sun does lose mass over time (about a billion kg a second IIRC... a total of about 100 earths over its lifetime), but this won't make a 15 cm/yr difference.
 
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Originally posted by: lxskllr
Interesting. I wonder what'll happen first; we lose orbit, or the sun burns up....
Click to expand...

We're not going to "lose orbit", we'll become tidally locked with the sun. This means the Earth will be rotating at a rate of 1 rotation per year, and half of the Earth will never see the sun. Of course none of this is news, we've know about this for a couple of hundred years.

And to be honest I'm not sure which will happen first, but I suspect the tidal lock will happen before the Sun goes red giant.
Click to expand...

I doubt we'll ever be tidally locked to the sun. To be tidally locked with the moon (such that 1 earth day is about 1 month), assuming that the slowdown is a constant 0.000017 seconds/year as the article states, it'd take about 10^11 years. And that's just to get us to having a month-long day. It'd take much longer than that (factor of 10 about?) to get us to a year-long day. 10^12 years. Longer than the age of the universe.
 
Originally posted by: darkxshade
so how much time would have to pass for Earth to become too cold to sustain human life at this rate?
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To get to Mars' distance it'd take 10^11 years (100 billion years). The sun will have died long before then.
 
Originally posted by: dainthomas
Originally posted by: SagaLore
Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
it's not moving further. it's burning out and getting smaller.
Click to expand...

Actually as it burns out, it gets larger.
Click to expand...

As it releases energy it's mass has to decrease.

It gets larger and hotter as it gradually begins fusing helium or something.
Click to expand...

It should slowly get dimmer and cooler as it burns through its hydrogen. Once the core runs out of hydrogen the sun will contract quite quickly as there is no longer any outward pressure. The sun will compress its core and this will ignite the helium quite suddenly. The extreme energy release from fusing helium will cause the sun to expand rapidly to red giant mode.
 
Originally posted by: Jeff7
Originally posted by: xboxist
I love how we have the technology to to calculate the distance to the Sun down to a thousandth of a kilometer and explore the solar system, but we still haven't thoroughly explored our own planet's oceans yet.
Click to expand...
The pressure differential between atmosphere and space is just a tad bit less than that between atmosphere and deep ocean. 🙂
Click to expand...

Well, it depends on how you look at it. The pressure at the bottom of the ocean is about 15000 psi. Atmosphere is 15 psi. Space is effectively 0. So yes, 14985 > 15, but if you look at it another way it's a different story. Ocean pressure is 1000x atmospheric. Atmospheric is about 10^13 times outer space... that's 10 billion times greater difference.



Originally posted by: Jeff7
As it releases energy it's mass has to decrease.

It gets larger and hotter as it gradually begins fusing helium or something.
Click to expand...
Yup. I think that as it starts fusing heavier elements, it generates less heat, which doesn't generate sufficient pressure to hold the plasma sphere against its own gravity. The outer layers puff off, and the inside contracts into a white dwarf.
Buy real estate on Mercury - by then, maybe it'll be a bit cooler there. Sure it'll still be a vacuum, but, you know, it's not metal-meltingly hot anymore. 😛

[/quote]

Fusing heavier elements releases more energy IIRC. When you get to white dwarf stage, fusion has stopped at carbon and there is no more fusion at all. White dwarfs don't produce any energy, the just radiate the thermal energy they have and slowly cool.
 
Originally posted by: silverpig
Well, it depends on how you look at it. The pressure at the bottom of the ocean is about 15000 psi. Atmosphere is 15 psi. Space is effectively 0. So yes, 14985 > 15, but if you look at it another way it's a different story. Ocean pressure is 1000x atmospheric. Atmospheric is about 10^13 times outer space... that's 10 billion times greater difference.
Click to expand...
Easier from an engineering standpoint. Yes, if you want to go for multiples, then it's much larger.
If you're looking at psi though, which is what an engineer would be concerned with, 15000 psi is much much worse than (effectively) 0. 🙂



Fusing heavier elements releases more energy IIRC. When you get to white dwarf stage, fusion has stopped at carbon and there is no more fusion at all. White dwarfs don't produce any energy, the just radiate the thermal energy they have and slowly cool.
Click to expand...
You sure? I think there's a bit of a spike in energy released at helium, but after that it's a steady decline until reaching iron, at which point the energy gained from fusion turns negative - it'd take more energy to cause fusion than could ever be produced from the reaction.

 
Originally posted by: Jeff7
Originally posted by: silverpig
Well, it depends on how you look at it. The pressure at the bottom of the ocean is about 15000 psi. Atmosphere is 15 psi. Space is effectively 0. So yes, 14985 > 15, but if you look at it another way it's a different story. Ocean pressure is 1000x atmospheric. Atmospheric is about 10^13 times outer space... that's 10 billion times greater difference.
Click to expand...
Easier from an engineering standpoint. Yes, if you want to go for multiples, then it's much larger.
If you're looking at psi though, as an engineer would be concerned with, 15000 psi is much much worse than (effectively) 0. 🙂



Fusing heavier elements releases more energy IIRC. When you get to white dwarf stage, fusion has stopped at carbon and there is no more fusion at all. White dwarfs don't produce any energy, the just radiate the thermal energy they have and slowly cool.
Click to expand...
You sure? I think there's a bit of a spike in energy released at helium, but after that it's a steady decline until reaching iron, at which point the energy gained from fusion turns negative - it'd take more energy to cause fusion than could ever be produced from the reaction.
Click to expand...

Per atom yes that is true, but IIRC in the context of stars they put out more energy the farther along they are in their element burning. That could be wrong though.
 
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