The Draft is Back

[LordMagnusKain]

God forbid we stop a genocide in Sudan, a terrorist harboring nation in Syria, and a Nuke building nation in Iran.

I must vehemently disagree. Those are all good reasons to use us military force.

 

[Bulk Beef]

While the link isnt working, I can progbably guess it was Rangell. That guy is nuts.

S. 89 is Hollings - H.R. 163 is Rangel. Same difference. Pure political horsesh*t.

 

[tallest1]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
I'll have to read bill in full, but it sounds like they may finally have gotten it right. There's nothing wrong with asking for some form of civil service, as long as it's EVERYONE and not just men that have to do it. There can be NO exceptions, especially not for the presidents own children. EVERYONE serves if anyone does. It can't be required military, because not everyone believes in harming others. But something. Reserve police officer, medical assistant, community service, park ranger, etc.

I like the idea of giving an option. If you accept civil service and complete it you can receive government assistance, like school loans and pell grants and unemployment. I think the montgomery gi bill should get a boost too and be offered to any civil service participant, not just military. Or keep the gi bill military but add another that anyone can get. If you choose not to serve, you can NEVER for any reason get ANY help from and state or federal agency, PERIOD.

I completely agree. However the only thing that worries me is this part:

"in a civilian capacity that, as determined by the President, promotes the national defense, including national or community service and homeland security.

I'd rather Congress decide on that

 

[phantom309]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Reinstating a draft or any mandatory military service in the US will bring back civil unrest like NOTHING we've seen in the past.

Unfortuantely I doubt that. Young people today are much more submissive to authority then the Vietnam generation. Years of zero tolerance, political correctness, and fear of crime has bred a generation of fat, listless weaklings whose whole world exists on TV and the Net.

 

[xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Reinstating a draft or any mandatory military service in the US will bring back civil unrest like NOTHING we've seen in the past.

...nothing a MOAB couldn't handle; how fast can the baggy-pants kids run with their drawers falling down to their Birkenstocks?

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: tallest1

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
I'll have to read bill in full, but it sounds like they may finally have gotten it right. There's nothing wrong with asking for some form of civil service, as long as it's EVERYONE and not just men that have to do it. There can be NO exceptions, especially not for the presidents own children. EVERYONE serves if anyone does. It can't be required military, because not everyone believes in harming others. But something. Reserve police officer, medical assistant, community service, park ranger, etc.

I like the idea of giving an option. If you accept civil service and complete it you can receive government assistance, like school loans and pell grants and unemployment. I think the montgomery gi bill should get a boost too and be offered to any civil service participant, not just military. Or keep the gi bill military but add another that anyone can get. If you choose not to serve, you can NEVER for any reason get ANY help from and state or federal agency, PERIOD.

I completely agree. However the only thing that worries me is this part:

"in a civilian capacity that, as determined by the President, promotes the national defense, including national or community service and homeland security.

I'd rather Congress decide on that

Agreed. I'd rather go a step farther and say that each state could enact thru general legislation a listing of required jobs that they want to be allowed to fulfill the civic requirement. This duty should be more about community and local service that purely national service anyway. So if Alaska needs a ton of park rangers they could vote to allow rangers to fulfill the requirement, while california ok's lifeguards or beach cleanup crew.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain
Repost of generic democratic fear-mongering.

Nothing more.

Another ChickenHawk??

 

[robertsmcn]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Reinstating a draft or any mandatory military service in the US will bring back civil unrest like NOTHING we've seen in the past.

If the purpose of a draft is to accumulate bodies so we can police every single incident of international discord that we disagree with, then I can understand where civil unrest could become possible and even warranted.

But there's nothing wrong with a draft in and of itself. How many 18 year-olds are around that could use a little discipline and a good kick in the arse? There's nothing wrong with contributing a fair share of civil service.

 

[GoPackGo]

if everyone had to participate it wouldnt be draft, now would it?

I think that it would be good for everyone from 18-21 have to put in 3 years of civil service after graduation.

Does that mean military? no...but it would be an option.

I would like to see 25% for military, 25% to Foreign Humanitarian Aid and 50% for Domestic Humanitarian aid.

Could you imagine the good that would come of this and the maturation of our youth?

 

[xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
if everyone had to participate it wouldnt be draft, now would it?

I think that it would be good for everyone from 18-21 have to put in 3 years of civil service after graduation.

Does that mean military? no...but it would be an option.

I would like to see 25% for military, 25% to Foreign Humanitarian Aid and 50% for Domestic Humanitarian aid.

Could you imagine the good that would come of this and the maturation of our youth?

On the surface, it sounds like utopia, but Germany has the conscription plan you speak of...would hate the see our military filled 25% with kids who don't want to be there...I've seen it in Germany and would argue that it's more trouble than it's worth...so long as volunteerism in America isn't dead.

 

[tallest1]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
if everyone had to participate it wouldnt be draft, now would it?

I think that it would be good for everyone from 18-21 have to put in 3 years of civil service after graduation.

Does that mean military? no...but it would be an option.

I would like to see 25% for military, 25% to Foreign Humanitarian Aid and 50% for Domestic Humanitarian aid.

Could you imagine the good that would come of this and the maturation of our youth?

If such a thing were to pass, I'd rather the citizens/volunteers be equally assigned where needed. Setting percentages would have flocks of people rich and poor doing anything possible to get into the Domestic Humanitarian bucket or none at all

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: tallest1

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
if everyone had to participate it wouldnt be draft, now would it?

I think that it would be good for everyone from 18-21 have to put in 3 years of civil service after graduation.

Does that mean military? no...but it would be an option.

I would like to see 25% for military, 25% to Foreign Humanitarian Aid and 50% for Domestic Humanitarian aid.

Could you imagine the good that would come of this and the maturation of our youth?

If such a thing were to pass, I'd rather the citizens/volunteers be equally assigned where needed. Setting percentages would have flocks of people rich and poor doing anything possible to get into the Domestic Humanitarian bucket or none at all

No, you have ot get the right to refuse service that might result in the need to cause injury to another, even indirectly. Those people should be able to serve as medical assistants and such, helping instead of harming.

 

[xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx]

Originally posted by: tallest1

If such a thing were to pass, I'd rather the citizens/volunteers be equally assigned where needed. Setting percentages would have flocks of people rich and poor doing anything possible to get into the Domestic Humanitarian bucket or none at all

..because kids today hate America. In Germany, they have no problems with kids signing up...those who go to the hospital to clean bed pans are viewed as 'pussies'

 

[classy]

Its sad. Here we are the most technologically advanced country and we now have to maybe institute the draft the fight some commie's war. Its an absolute disgrace where we are today where we were as country just 4 years ago. President Bush is a Nazi.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: phantom309

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Reinstating a draft or any mandatory military service in the US will bring back civil unrest like NOTHING we've seen in the past.

Unfortuantely I doubt that. Young people today are much more submissive to authority then the Vietnam generation. Years of zero tolerance, political correctness, and fear of crime has bred a generation of fat, listless weaklings whose whole world exists on TV and the Net.

You can't be serious. The honest ones will be the one's protesting and getting arrested; the rest of us (including me) would get as far away from the fvcking US as possible before it goes to sh1t.

But to say that today's generation would just submit to authority and report to duty if they disagree with the motives or leadership......we're not that submissive.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Reinstating a draft or any mandatory military service in the US will bring back civil unrest like NOTHING we've seen in the past.

...nothing a MOAB couldn't handle; how fast can the baggy-pants kids run with their drawers falling down to their Birkenstocks?

:roll:

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx

Originally posted by: tallest1

If such a thing were to pass, I'd rather the citizens/volunteers be equally assigned where needed. Setting percentages would have flocks of people rich and poor doing anything possible to get into the Domestic Humanitarian bucket or none at all

..because kids today hate America.

I don't think they hate America. I do think they are disenchanted with our generation (their parents generation) and disgusted with our leaders.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx

Originally posted by: tallest1

If such a thing were to pass, I'd rather the citizens/volunteers be equally assigned where needed. Setting percentages would have flocks of people rich and poor doing anything possible to get into the Domestic Humanitarian bucket or none at all

..because kids today hate America.

I don't think they hate America. I do think they are disenchanted with our generation (their parents generation) and disgusted with our leaders.

Amen. Out of a broad spectrum of people I took classes with at my university, I can say with certainty that most were not even remotely interested in any voluntary service in our armed forces. Mandatory service in an illegitimate war would not be well recieved.

 

[Mockery]

I just thought I?d like to point out something that I haven?t seen touched on in this thread.

From the initial H.R. 163 Bill proposal here:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d108:H.R.163:

To the names of sponsors and cosponsors here
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/...ry/z?d108:HR00163@@P

D Rep Senator Fritz Hollings (D-South Carolina).
D Rep Charles Rangel (D-New York)
D Rep Abercrombie, Neil - 1/7/2003 [HI-1]
D Rep Brown, Corrine - 1/28/2003 [FL-3]
D Rep Christensen, Donna M. - 5/19/2004 [VI]
D Rep Clay, Wm. Lacy - 1/28/2003 [MO-1]
D Rep Conyers, John, Jr. - 1/7/2003 [MI-14]
D Rep Cummings, Elijah E. - 1/28/2003 [MD-7]
D Rep Hastings, Alcee L. - 1/28/2003 [FL-23]
D Rep Jackson-Lee, Sheila - 1/28/2003 [TX-18]
D Rep Lewis, John - 1/7/2003 [GA-5]
D Rep McDermott, Jim - 1/7/2003 [WA-7]
D Rep Moran, James P. - 1/28/2003 [VA-8]
D Rep Norton, Eleanor Holmes - 1/28/2003 [DC]
D Rep Stark, Fortney Pete - 1/7/2003 [CA-13]
D Rep Velazquez, Nydia M. - 1/28/2003 [NY-12]

Why is it that every single one of these people are Democrats?

Why is it that every single one of these people have thrown there support behind John Kerry, and not President Bush this election?

This is either fear-mongering to the highest level, or some outright, scary new form of Neo-Liberalism that we need to be concerned about.

Is it safe to say that Kerry = Draft if elected?.From the people supporting this Bill it would appear so.

Edit typo:

 

[xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx]

Originally posted by: Mockery
I just thought I?d like to point out something that I haven?t seen touched on in this thread.

From the initial H.R. 163 Bill proposal here:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d108:H.R.163:

To the names of sponsors and cosponsors here
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/...ry/z?d108:HR00163@@P

D Rep Senator Fritz Hollings (D-South Carolina).
D Rep Charles Rangel (D-New York)
D Rep Abercrombie, Neil - 1/7/2003 [HI-1]
D Rep Brown, Corrine - 1/28/2003 [FL-3]
D Rep Christensen, Donna M. - 5/19/2004 [VI]
D Rep Clay, Wm. Lacy - 1/28/2003 [MO-1]
D Rep Conyers, John, Jr. - 1/7/2003 [MI-14]
D Rep Cummings, Elijah E. - 1/28/2003 [MD-7]
D Rep Hastings, Alcee L. - 1/28/2003 [FL-23]
D Rep Jackson-Lee, Sheila - 1/28/2003 [TX-18]
D Rep Lewis, John - 1/7/2003 [GA-5]
D Rep McDermott, Jim - 1/7/2003 [WA-7]
D Rep Moran, James P. - 1/28/2003 [VA-8]
D Rep Norton, Eleanor Holmes - 1/28/2003 [DC]
D Rep Stark, Fortney Pete - 1/7/2003 [CA-13]
D Rep Velazquez, Nydia M. - 1/28/2003 [NY-12]

Why is it that every single one of these people are Democrats?

Why is it that every single one of these people have thrown there support behind John Kerry, and not President Bush this election?

This is either fear-mongering to the highest level, or some outright, scary new form of Neo-Liberalism that we need to be concerned about.

Is it safe to say that Kerry = Draft if elected?.From the people supporting this Bill it would appear so.

Edit typo:

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: sward666
Your pony needs a new trick, Red.

Well if the Dub decides to go after the Sudan, Syria and Iran who is he going to use to fight those wars?

Is it not the fvcking democrats who want the draft, not the republicans?

^what He said.

 

[SoylentGreen]

I say enact it just so all these internet armchair wusses in support of the war in Iraq STFU.

Now they can rant how they don't want to be drafted and go to Iraq for no good reason.

 

[imported_judge]

after listening to nbc nightly news i am more now convience that draft will be brought back next year if bush is elected. I have decided to pack my bag and be ready to go to mexico and then to iraq if draft is brought back which i am convience will be brought back if bush gets another 4 years

 

[gutharius]

My Concerns and Observations:

1. There has been no major action on this bill for over a year and a half. This seems like a 9/11 motivated bill which lost steam as america got past its anger and sadness ver the 9/11 attacks.
2. I wonder if after a certain amount of inactivity if a bill is just dropped and has to start all over again???
3. Being that this bill was introduced by Charles Rangel, WHICH ABSOLUTLY FLOORS ME BTW, I wonder if this is a democratic ploy to use against Bush in some fashion. i.e. Propose the draft for discussion in a Senate hearing and drag in some bush administration cronies who support it then turn tail and blast them for sending our sons and daughters off to be slautered (sp?).
4. This is from the lunatic fringe but still a light hearted discussion point, a few credible psychics have predicted a draft sometime in late 2004 to early 2005 and a possible war with Iran or an organized Arab Coalition.

 

[judasmachine]

yeah and mandatory Champagne service for rich kids.