The doers against the "thinkers"

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PJABBER

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Feb 8, 2001
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I know that many posters on this forum have imaginary friends, but just imagine that these constant companions had analogues in the real world.

David Brooks of The New York Times has two imaginary friends he calls Mr. Bentham and Mr. Hume. Bentham vs. Hume. As I am a particular fan of David Hume, in all fairness I have to take a step away from immediately identifying with the "Mr. Hume" of Mr. Brook's imagination.

So, I found a follow-on commentary by David Harsanyi of The Denver Post that identifies his own two friends, Mr. Hoover and Jim. I may not know Jim, but I know hundreds just like him, as I know dozens and dozens of Mr. Hoovers, being in DC and all.

I admit that, like Mr. Hoover, I, too, know where the best Ethiopian restaurants are in the DC metropolitan area. And I can reel off the best vintages on most any wine list like Mr. Bentham. Sadly, I may have been here too long, but not nearly as too many politicians have been here too long.

There is a big debate going on between all of our imaginary friends and there is a more serious debate going on between their real life analogues. It is not necessarily a debate between the Democrats and the Republicans but a schism between the doers and the "thinkers."

Unlike the above authors, I do not know who will win, but I know who's side I am on.

Do you?

The doers against the "thinkers"

Harsanyi: The doers against the "thinkers"

By David Harsanyi
The Denver Post
10/07/2009

This week, New York Times columnist David Brooks introduced readers to his imaginary friends, Mr. Bentham and Mr. Hume, as a way of highlighting the nation's philosophical divide.

If only our ideological split were that complicated.

As it happens, I also have two imaginary friends (and boy, do I need them) named Mr. Hoover and Jim.

Mr. Hoover knows everything. He attended a high-brow graduate school and worked as a Senate aide before becoming a policy expert. (He even pretends to understand Jeremy Bentham.) He is a man who craves acceptance from the other smart people who surround him.

Jim is pretty smart, too, but hasn't squandered his talent working in Washington. Rather than theorizing about economics, Jim takes an authentic risk by starting a business. He ends up employing 20 people and creating the capital that helps pay for their health insurance ? as well as fund many of the social safety net programs that Mr. Hoover dreams up.

Mr. Hoover is an awesome lunch partner, though. If you ask him to recommend an Ethiopian restaurant, he'll rattle off the six best in Washington. Jim would never eat Ethiopian, though he unapologetically gulps high-fructose carbonated drinks while rooting for his state school's middling football team.

If you put a man like Mr. Hoover in charge of government, he'd take to the task with an unrestrained confidence. Since he's so much smarter than you, he'd have no compunction forcing you to do the right thing on an array of issues, from your light bulbs to your health care.

If you told him to solve an intricate problem like global warming, he'd assemble a group of similarly dazzling thinkers to centralize the entire energy economy for the next 40 years through taxation, subsidies, mandates and corporate giveaways. He does this because he knows precisely what the weather will be like in 2050. That's how smart he is.

Now, Jim, I'm afraid, would be far less impressive. If you asked him to "solve" global warming, he'd question the costs and benefits of federal-controlled energy production. He understands, from his own life experiences, that you can't decree an economic outcome.

Jim, who has never read Hume in his life, might take time to study the failed European cap-and-trade scheme and wonder why anyone would hamper the American economy with a regressive tax that brings only marginal environmental gains. He's no cynic, but he understands from experience that corporations ? even those swine in the fossil fuel business ? are tax collectors, not taxpayers.

"I don't know the best way to generate clean energy," he'd justifiably declare, "because who the hell knows what technology will win out?" He might also ask, "Since when do we have the right to tell people what kind of energy they can use?"

Even when Mr. Hoover has come up with a sensible idea, Jim hates that it will be implemented by the state through force.

David Brooks might believe it's Mr. Bentham and Mr. Hume who represent the choices we face in this nation on issue after issue. I believe it's Mr. Hoover and Jim.

The United States has from its inception squabbled over the appropriate role of government ? one that pundits on cable TV, for all their bluster, rightly label a debate between socialism and free markets. Yes, this debate pits the theoreticians against the doers, but it is largely a fight between the state and the individual.

So let's have the debate. But before we do, let's understand that Mr. Hoover is going to win. Mr. Hoover always wins. He takes no real risk. If he can't convince us, he has the power to bribe, print money, "compel" citizens, bully and monopolize the process. It's no more complicated than that.

If you want to pass anything, he is your man.
 

TheBDB

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Jan 26, 2002
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That article has a little too much stereotype and isn't really valid. We have to choose between thinking or doing? Give me a break.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
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Originally posted by: TheBDB
That article has a little too much stereotype and isn't really valid. We have to choose between thinking or doing? Give me a break.

I think the lesson is that one learned from a textbook, the other from experience.

Although I grant there's a lot of stereotypes inherent.
 

PJABBER

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Feb 8, 2001
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Originally posted by: TheBDB
That article has a little too much stereotype and isn't really valid. We have to choose between thinking or doing? Give me a break.

OK, you want to make it political? :confused:

Thinkers Anonymous

It started out innocently enough. I began to think at parties now and then -- to loosen up. Inevitably, though, one thought led to another, and soon I was more than just a social thinker. I began to think alone -- "to relax," I told myself -- but I knew it wasn't true.

Thinking became more and more important to me, and finally I was thinking all the time. That was when things began to sour at home. One evening I had turned off the TV and asked my wife about the meaning of life. She spent that night at her mother's.

I began to think on the job. I knew that thinking and employment don't mix, but I couldn't stop myself. I began to avoid friends at lunch time so I could read Thoreau and Kafka. I would return to the office dizzied and confused, asking, "What is it exactly we are doing here?"

One day the boss called me in. He said, "Listen, I like you, and it hurts me to say this, but your thinking has become a real problem. If you don't stop thinking on the job, you'll have to find another job."

This gave me a lot to think about.

I came home early after my conversation with the boss. "Honey," I confessed, "I've been thinking ..." "I know you've been thinking," she said, "and I want a divorce!"

"But Honey, surely it's not that serious."

"It is serious," she said, lower lip aquiver. "You think as much as college professors, and college professors don't make any money, so if you keep on thinking, we won't have any money!"

"That's a faulty syllogism," I said impatiently. She exploded in tears of rage and frustration, but I was in no mood to deal with the emotional drama.

"I'm going to the library," I snarled as I stomped out the door. I headed for the library, in the mood for some Nietzsche. I roared into the parking lot with NPR on the radio and ran up to the big glass doors... They didn't open. The library was closed. To this day, I believe that a Higher Power was looking out for me that night.

As I sank to the ground, clawing at the unfeeling glass, whimpering for Zarathustra, a poster caught my eye. "Friend, is heavy thinking ruining your life?" it asked. You probably recognize that line. It comes from the standard Thinker's Anonymous poster. Which is why I am what I am today: a recovering thinker. I never miss a TA meeting.

At each meeting we watch a non-educational video; last week it was "Porky's." Then we share experiences about how we avoided thinking since the last meeting. I still have my job, and things are a lot better at home.

Life just seemed ... easier, somehow, as soon as I stopped thinking. I think the road to recovery is nearly complete for me. Today, I registered to vote Democrat.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
Originally posted by: PJABBER
Originally posted by: TheBDB
That article has a little too much stereotype and isn't really valid. We have to choose between thinking or doing? Give me a break.

OK, you want to make it political? :confused:

Thinkers Anonymous

It started out innocently enough. I began to think at parties now and then -- to loosen up. Inevitably, though, one thought led to another, and soon I was more than just a social thinker. I began to think alone -- "to relax," I told myself -- but I knew it wasn't true.

Thinking became more and more important to me, and finally I was thinking all the time. That was when things began to sour at home. One evening I had turned off the TV and asked my wife about the meaning of life. She spent that night at her mother's.

I began to think on the job. I knew that thinking and employment don't mix, but I couldn't stop myself. I began to avoid friends at lunch time so I could read Thoreau and Kafka. I would return to the office dizzied and confused, asking, "What is it exactly we are doing here?"

One day the boss called me in. He said, "Listen, I like you, and it hurts me to say this, but your thinking has become a real problem. If you don't stop thinking on the job, you'll have to find another job."

This gave me a lot to think about.

I came home early after my conversation with the boss. "Honey," I confessed, "I've been thinking ..." "I know you've been thinking," she said, "and I want a divorce!"

"But Honey, surely it's not that serious."

"It is serious," she said, lower lip aquiver. "You think as much as college professors, and college professors don't make any money, so if you keep on thinking, we won't have any money!"

"That's a faulty syllogism," I said impatiently. She exploded in tears of rage and frustration, but I was in no mood to deal with the emotional drama.

"I'm going to the library," I snarled as I stomped out the door. I headed for the library, in the mood for some Nietzsche. I roared into the parking lot with NPR on the radio and ran up to the big glass doors... They didn't open. The library was closed. To this day, I believe that a Higher Power was looking out for me that night.

As I sank to the ground, clawing at the unfeeling glass, whimpering for Zarathustra, a poster caught my eye. "Friend, is heavy thinking ruining your life?" it asked. You probably recognize that line. It comes from the standard Thinker's Anonymous poster. Which is why I am what I am today: a recovering thinker. I never miss a TA meeting.

At each meeting we watch a non-educational video; last week it was "Porky's." Then we share experiences about how we avoided thinking since the last meeting. I still have my job, and things are a lot better at home.

Life just seemed ... easier, somehow, as soon as I stopped thinking. I think the road to recovery is nearly complete for me. Today, I registered to vote Democrat.

i had a good lol at that
 

n yusef

Platinum Member
Feb 20, 2005
2,158
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Ironic is it not, a professional writer who doesn't like thinking?
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
81
Originally posted by: TheBDB
That article has a little too much stereotype and isn't really valid. We have to choose between thinking or doing? Give me a break.

no, some do neither
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
'Jim' would leave healthcare to the free market, let healthcare inflation keep exploding and only the rich would have access to good healthcare in the future.

I'm actually questioning if 'jim' is able to afford good healthcare for his employees since he apparently doesn't own a very big business.

 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Originally posted by: TheBDB
That article has a little too much stereotype and isn't really valid. We have to choose between thinking or doing? Give me a break.

Yup, Harsanyi piece is garbage.
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
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My thoughts on Jeremy Bentham go like this...

As requested in his will, his body was preserved and stored in a wooden cabinet called an "Auto-icon." Originally kept by his disciple Thomas Southwood Smith, it was acquired by University College London in 1850. It is normally kept on public display at the end of the South Cloisters in the main building of the college, but for the 100th and 150th anniversaries of the college, it was brought to the meeting of the College Council, where it was listed as "present but not voting."

The Auto-icon has a wax head, as Bentham's head was badly damaged in the preservation process. The real head was displayed in the same case for many years, but became the target of repeated student pranks, including being stolen on more than one occasion. It is now locked away securely.

As it should be.
 
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