The do nothing house does something

[Lemon law]

The long and short of it is that the house has passed a funding measure to continue the war.
But it has strings attached requiring GWB do start troop withdrawals GWB is unlikely to sign.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...uWpMVk6kLS5NmZ0GWs0NUE

The measure passed yesterday now goes on to the Senate as the existing funding measure.

The President can either veto the bill and hope a bill more to his liking can be passed or GWB
may just run out of funding. And GWB has now dispatched Defense Secretary Gates to sing the horrors of how jobs and contracts will be lost if action is not taken within days.

Now the question is who is going to blink in this game of chicken. And dare we hope that congress will have the will to finally tell GWB that he is no longer the sole decider?

And who will the American people support?

And what compromises are possible?

One thing for sure, the public relations war is starting up.

 

[Pabster]

The Dems will blink, as they always do. Just watch :laugh:

The bill the House passed will be VOA (Vetoed-On-Arrival).

 

[bl4ckfl4g]

The Dems will fold as usual. It sucks that the only people in a real position to do anything about this pos worthless war are spineless.

 

[techgamer]

Repubs are whats wrong with our country

edit: Dems aren't spinelss. They are trying to end this mockery but they know nothing will happen unless they concede some things to the Repubs

 

[Fern]

It prolly won't pass the Senate.

But they're a day late and a dollar short.

The troops are already being drawn down. And they shoulda done this back when all the Iraq news was bad, not now after successes are being reported.

As usual for this group, bad timing etc.

Fern

 

[Lemon law]

No bill no funding period. The can still is kicked back to the house if the President vetoes. The can is still kicked back to the house if the Senate fails to pass the bill. Its the President who may have to do the compromising for a change if the democratic congress finally sticks to their guns and puts strings on war funding.

As Fern points out it may be bad timing for the dems because Iraq is getting marginally better,
but its also bad timing for the R's because an election is coming and and the public is sick of congressional inaction.

I think it may boil down to public support, GWB will certainly appeal for that support, but the public no longer believes in GWB and may actually support their congress.

Time will tell.

 

[jonks]

I'm with "the bill will be vetoed, and the Dems will fold and subsequently approve a no-strings attached funding measure." Please surprise me.

 

[StageLeft]

Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Thursday that unless Congress passes funding for the Iraq war within days, he will direct the Army and Marine Corps to begin developing plans to lay off employees and terminate contracts early next year.

Great!

edit: Dems aren't spinelss. They are trying to end this mockery but they know nothing will happen unless they concede some things to the Repubs

Shame on you. They have been in power for a year and passed money over continually without substantial strings attached that would let them do what they said they'd do when they were trying to get into office.

Oh yes, the dems are very spineless indeed. They've had an opportunity to put the screws to Bush and this mess for a while and have not done so. It would be nice now if they did because for Bush to veto this it will be like a kid asking his dad for allowance and his dad says "Here's $15" and the kid says "Screw you! I refuse it, I want $20!" and his dad says "$15 or nothing, now piss off!" and the kid screms about how it isn't fair and parents just don't understand, but dad ain't budging because he holds all the power.

So the Dems will either be Dad in this situation or they'll be the bendover mom who has no respect from her son and gives him the $20 whenever he asks.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Thursday that unless Congress passes funding for the Iraq war within days, he will direct the Army and Marine Corps to begin developing plans to lay off employees and terminate contracts early next year.

Great!

edit: Dems aren't spinelss. They are trying to end this mockery but they know nothing will happen unless they concede some things to the Repubs

Shame on you. They have been in power for a year and passed money over continually without substantial strings attached that would let them do what they said they'd do when they were trying to get into office.

Oh yes, the dems are very spineless indeed. They've had an opportunity to put the screws to Bush and this mess for a while and have not done so. It would be nice now if they did because for Bush to veto this it will be like a kid asking his dad for allowance and his dad says "Here's $15" and the kid says "Screw you! I refuse it, I want $20!" and his dad says "$15 or nothing, now piss off!" and the kid screms about how it isn't fair and parents just don't understand, but dad ain't budging because he holds all the power.

So the Dems will either be Dad in this situation or they'll be the bendover mom who has no respect from her son and gives him the $20 whenever he asks.

I don't know, I think the problem is in the voters. The Dems can talk all they like, but they have to run for election before too long, and the voters are too stupid for a "they don't support the troops!" campaign not to work. My fellow Americans are dumb, everyone "doesn't like Iraq" but they also don't want to do anything...just what course of action seems like a good political idea for the Dems?

I wish they could ignore politics, but the Republicans sure as hell won't, so I can understand the Democratic reluctance to put their nuts on the chopping block for a fickle public.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Pabster
The Dems will blink, as they always do. Just watch :laugh:

As of 11/15/07 6:02 pm EDT, 3,866 American troops have died and tens of thousands more are wounded, scarred and disabled for life.

Please explain to the family and friends of those dead and wounded troops and us how you find all those dead and wounded Americans funny enough to merit a laughing icon. :roll:

 

[CaptnKirk]

Originally posted by: Fern
It prolly won't pass the Senate.

But they're a day late and a dollar short.

The troops are already being drawn down. And they shoulda done this back when all the Iraq news was bad, not now after successes are being reported.

As usual for this group, bad timing etc.

Fern

The 'Draw Down' hasn't begun. Rotations are underway, but there is an overlap and the troop concentration is currently at 175,000
which is actually the highest number we have ever had present there.

About halfway down the page


I wonder how much of the successes are being reported are influenced by controlled release of information to the Press.

 

[sierrita]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Pabster
The Dems will blink, as they always do. Just watch :laugh:

As of 11/15/07 6:02 pm EDT, 3,866 American troops have died and tens of thousands more are wounded, scarred and disabled for life.

Please explain to the family and friends of those dead and wounded troops and us how you find all those dead and wounded Americans funny enough to merit a laughing icon. :roll:

It's Pabster.

Is any further explanation really necessary?

 

[homercles337]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk

Originally posted by: Fern
It prolly won't pass the Senate.

But they're a day late and a dollar short.

The troops are already being drawn down. And they shoulda done this back when all the Iraq news was bad, not now after successes are being reported.

As usual for this group, bad timing etc.

Fern

The 'Draw Down' hasn't begun. Rotations are underway, but there is an overlap and the troop concentration is currently at 175,000
which is actually the highest number we have ever had present there.

About halfway down the page


I wonder how much of the successes are being reported are influenced by controlled release of information to the Press.

Add another 150,000 to that number for the mercenaries there too.

On topic, i think the dems will cave. Seems they always do. If they had the 2/3rds it would be different.

 

[IronWing]

If the Dems in the House finally figure out that all they have to do is keep passing war funding bills designed to draw vetoes, the war is over. The next step for the White House is to veto the Continuing Resolutions and all the domestic spending bills until the war bill is passed. It will be difficult for Congress to override vetoes on most of the domestic spending bills in the run up to an election with the Republicans still pretending to be fiscal conservatives. But the bottom line is that all the Dems have to do to end this war is absolutely nothing. No funds, no war.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Originally posted by: ironwing
If the Dems in the House finally figure out that all they have to do is keep passing war funding bills designed to draw vetoes, the war is over. The next step for the White House is to veto the Continuing Resolutions and all the domestic spending bills until the war bill is passed. It will be difficult for Congress to override vetoes on most of the domestic spending bills in the run up to an election with the Republicans still pretending to be fiscal conservatives. But the bottom line is that all the Dems have to do to end this war is absolutely nothing. No funds, no war.

OK - Dems pass a bill, ANY BILL, that Bush doesn't like and he Vetos it. Dems send the same bill back either unchanged or reduced -
and he vetos it again. End of funding, Bush is stuck. It's like fumbling the football in your own endzone, it's gonna cost you.

His ONLY hope is that he can trick the GOP House and Senate into doing his dirty work for him so he, like Pontious Pilate, can wash his hands of the deal.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Harvey
Please explain to the family and friends of those dead and wounded troops and us how you find all those dead and wounded Americans funny enough to merit a laughing icon. :roll:

Can you show me where I found dead and wounded Americans "funny", Harvey? :roll:

You're nothing but a disgusting troll right alongside Dave, Harvey. :thumbsdown: :| :thumbsdown:

 

[Jhhnn]

Think of the troops in Iraq as hostages to neocon policy. More troops = more hostages, so the Bushistas demand more money for keeping them from harm. Very straightforward.

They have no intention of letting go of any more hostages than suits their PR purposes. Even as Dems seek to negotiate an end to the hostage situation, the Admin makes it clear they have no intention of releasing all the hostages, ever. It's a new twist on ransom, where monies paid are merely maintenance fees to prevent harm to those being held.

And it's all a magnificent catch-22, where dems aren't supporting the troops or are spineless cowards when they pay the ransom- take your pick, because the Whitehouse has no intention of meaningful compromise.

Ultimately, I suspect, Dems will give in, or at least enough of them will so as join house repubs to form the necessary majority to do so. House Dems are really a much more diverse group than repubs, and simply don't have the whole lockstep mentality required to face down the Whitehouse.

It's important, however, for Dems to make the demand, force Bush to veto, force congressional repubs to go on record as supporting the war and the Whitehouse. Whether they like it or not, lots of repub congresscritters are being chained to the oars of Bush's Iraq policy. If it's a winner, so are they. If not, they're going down with the ship.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: Harvey
Please explain to the family and friends of those dead and wounded troops and us how you find all those dead and wounded Americans funny enough to merit a laughing icon. :roll:

Can you show me where I found dead and wounded Americans "funny", Harvey? :roll:

You're nothing but a disgusting troll right alongside Dave, Harvey. :thumbsdown: :| :thumbsdown:

He could very well be a troll, but he sort of has a point. You might not find dead Americans funny, but politics clearly doesn't stop at the water's edge, either...you're primary interest in the war seems to be as a way to bludgeon the Democrats. That's pretty damn disrespectful to the people who have died fighting this war. And this isn't partisan either, this goes just as much for the Democrats who think the Iraq war is a great issue to hurt the Republicans.

The Iraq war is a serious issue that deserves serious consideration, but you wouldn't know it listening to most people, especially people like you. For guys like you, it's an interchangeable weapon to attack folks you don't like, it could just as easily be gay marriage, or gun control, or abortion, or whatever. I see no signs that you really care about the fight in Iraq beyond the extent to which you can bash the Democrats about the head with it.

I disagree with Harvey that you find dead Americans funny, I just don't think you really care one way or the other.

 

[Balt]

The Dems will probably fold again. Politically they also picked a poor time to try to make a stand as the violence in Iraq has hit a lull (hopefully permanently, maybe not). Right now Bush can say they are trying to pull the rug out from under the progress being made in Iraq.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
I disagree with Harvey that you find dead Americans funny, I just don't think you really care one way or the other.

Both of your crystal balls are wrong, as usual. :roll:

I don't take any delight in the sacrifices that have been made for my freedom.

The politicization of the Iraq War has been disgusting. On both sides.

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: Pabster
I don't take any delight in the sacrifices that have been made for my freedom.

Sacrifices are not being made for your freedom, only for your arrogance and stupidity.

 

[nageov3t]

this is a retarded move on the part of the dems.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: ironwing
Sacrifices are not being made for your freedom, only for your arrogance and stupidity.

Or, rather, your right to spew such utter bullshit.

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: ironwing
Sacrifices are not being made for your freedom, only for your arrogance and stupidity.

Or, rather, your right to spew such utter bullshit.

To prove me wrong, all you have to do is demonstrate how pre-invasion Iraq impinged on your freedoms. This war has nothing to do with the freedoms of Americans and everything to do with the arrogance and stupidity of Bush supporters.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk

Originally posted by: Fern
It prolly won't pass the Senate.

But they're a day late and a dollar short.

The troops are already being drawn down. And they shoulda done this back when all the Iraq news was bad, not now after successes are being reported.

As usual for this group, bad timing etc.

Fern

The 'Draw Down' hasn't begun. Rotations are underway, but there is an overlap and the troop concentration is currently at 175,000
which is actually the highest number we have ever had present there.

About halfway down the page


I wonder how much of the successes are being reported are influenced by controlled release of information to the Press.

Well, many other sources say it's already begun. Link

The current total of 20 combat brigades is shrinking to 19 as the 3rd Brigade, 1st Cavalry Division, operating in volatile Diyala province, leaves. The U.S. command in Baghdad announced on Saturday that the brigade had begun heading home to Fort Hood, Texas, and that its battle space will be taken by another brigade already operating in Iraq.

But whether the info is off by a bit, no matter. By the time anything gets through Congress it (drawdown) will have started. Moreover, it's already expected, I'm pretty sure GWB announced it back in Sept.

So, that "bus has already left the station".

Fern