The Disappearance of Molly Norris

PJABBER

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Feb 8, 2001
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Lest we forget, "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day" had one victim who was not producing a multimillion dollar cartoon series, or running a major cable TV channel, or gaining thousands of column inches of support in the so-called "liberal" press.

The victim was not a political activist or ideologue, she was not a partisan or a radical. She was a simple illustrator who thought that we should not be afraid to write and to draw, to have a sense of humor and to respect others rights to the same.

She drew a simple poster and offered it up not as an organizer but as someone expressing an idea, a thought and an emotion. She did so believing in the liberal ideal that she had a protected right to do so.

For this she was, like anyone who seeks the same and intrudes on whatever political correctness may represent at the moment and the abhorrent strictures of the intolerant political ideology known as Islamism, condemned to lose her life.

Oh, she is likely still alive. But the threat against her is so so extreme that she has given up the life she was enjoying in this supposedly freedom loving country. This is her WWW site - MollyNorris.com - and here is the portfolio of all of her work - Molly Norris Illustrations.

She has disappeared, her life has been taken away from her.

Some may say she deserved it. She stepped over an ever clearer and growing line drawn by the advocates of sharia and Islamism and the pitiful fools who would rather tolerate their intolerance than resist its encroachment.

Others may say that the risk is minimal, after all, there are the police and the FBI to protect her and to guard her every moment, though they do not.

And others yet continue to say that she deserves death for her simple, maybe even simplistic, effort to express a sense of the freedom of expression which she has now lost, maybe forever.

Lest we forget.

A U.S. Cartoonist in Hiding: The Molly Norris Precedent

By Clifford May

October 5, 2010

Molly Norris is not as well known as Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf or Pastor Terry Jones. But you should know who she is - even though she is no more. It will take just a moment for me to explain.

In response to threats from militant Islamists, such custodians of Western culture as Comedy Central, Yale University Press, and the Deutsche Oper have resorted to self-censorship. Norris, a cartoonist for the Seattle Weekly, was troubled by what she saw - correctly, I think - as the slow-motion surrender of freedom of expression, a fundamental right.

So she came up with an idea: "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day." This may not have been a great idea - few are - but the point she wanted to make was simple enough: Freedom implies the right to criticize and caricature. This freedom is now in jeopardy because a minority of Muslims believe the majority of non-Muslims can be easily intimidated. If we all stand up for freedom, Norris thought, surely freedom's enemies will back down.

What happened next: Anwar al-Awlaki, the American-born cleric - once touted by the New York Times as a moderate but in fact an al-Qaeda commander who is currently hiding out in Yemen - issued a fatwa calling for Norris to be murdered by any Muslim willing and able. She quickly retracted her proposal for a day of mass Mohammed-sketching, but it was too late. As the Seattle Weekly cheerily informed its readers:
You may have noticed that Molly Norris' comic is not in the paper this week. That's because there is no more Molly.

The gifted artist is alive and well, thankfully. But on the insistence of top security specialists at the FBI, she is, as they put it, "going ghost": moving, changing her name, and essentially wiping away her identity. She will no longer be publishing cartoons in our paper or in City Arts magazine, where she has been a regular contributor. She is, in effect, being put into a witness-protection program - except, as she notes, without the government picking up the tab. . . .

Norris views the situation with her customary sense of the world's complexity, and absurdity. When FBI agents, on a recent visit, instructed her to always keep watch for anyone following her, she joked, "Well, at least it'll keep me from being so self-involved!" . . .

[W]e wish her the best.
In response: Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, who plans to build an Islamic center at the edge of Ground Zero, issued his own fatwa condemning al-Awlaki. "I am asking every Muslim in America to show solidarity with Molly!" he declared. President Obama, who championed the First Amendment's guarantee of religious freedom for Rauf, told reporters: "Freedom of speech also is guaranteed by the First Amendment, and my administration intends to do whatever it takes to defend it." Joe Klein at Time and Peter Beinart at the Daily Beast quickly launched a "Molly Norris Defense Fund," collecting hundreds of thousands of dollars from artists, journalists, novelists, and Hollywood stars. The ACLU, Human Rights Watch, and the U.N. swung into action.*

* The paragraph above, of course, is pure fantasy. The truth: The saga of Molly Norris has elicited hardly any notice from political leaders, elite journalists, and celebrities. Nor has it stirred to action those who claim to represent America's Islamic community. Nor have I seen anything from Human Rights Watch. The ACLU is actually defending al-Awlaki. At the U.N., Muslim-majority countries are pushing to ban criticism of Islam under international law.

Where does this leave us? Significantly less free than we used to be. One may satirize, criticize, and even demonize Christians and Jews. Such speech remains protected by America 's Constitution. But when it comes to Islam and the sensibilities of overly sensitive Muslims, constitutional protections are no longer to be taken seriously. To even discuss these matters, as I am now doing, risks - nay, ensures - being castigated as an Islamophobe.

But the alternative is to watch Molly Norris "go ghost" and pretend that no historic changes are occurring. It is not just Molly but America and the West that are moving, changing, "essentially wiping away" our identity. Are we still the "land of the free and the home of the brave"?

Like Molly, our political, media, and cultural elites, along with self-proclaimed defenders of our rights and self-appointed leaders of America 's Muslim community, view the situation with their "customary sense of the world's complexity and absurdity." And, no doubt, they wish us well.

Clifford D. May is president of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, a policy institute focusing on terrorism and Islamism.
By the way, the illustration that Molly drew is still dangerously available for viewing. Beware in whose presence you see it.

Everybody_Draw_Mohammed_Day.jpg
 

spacejamz

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
10,970
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Sadly, the freedoms of this country are slowing disappearing...Molly should not have to fear for her life because she opposes the ideology of another religion (which isn't even the reason why she started this)...

It started with not being able to say Merry Christmas or having a Christmas party for fear of 'offending' someone (which is total bullshit IMO)...only time will tell where this will lead...
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,153
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Sadly, the freedoms of this country are slowing disappearing...Molly should not have to fear for her life because she opposes the ideology of another religion (which isn't even the reason why she started this)...

It started with not being able to say Merry Christmas or having a Christmas party for fear of 'offending' someone (which is total bullshit IMO)...only time will tell where this will lead...

I don't know what you're talking about. There is no government censorship here. The issue isn't between Molly Norris and the U.S. Government. It's between Molly Norris and radical islamists making death threats.

- wolf
 

surfsatwerk

Lifer
Mar 6, 2008
10,110
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I don't know what you're talking about. There is no government censorship here. The issue isn't between Molly Norris and the U.S. Government. It's between Molly Norris and radical islamists making death threats.

- wolf

Well now that we have a Muslim President it's not unreasonable to assume that he greenlighted a government sponsored hit on this woman.
 

busydude

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2010
8,793
5
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It's between Molly Norris and radical islamists making death threats.

Isn't making a death threat Illegal in USA? Why can't they be prosecuted?

There was an incident not so long ago, where a boy from UK(?) threatened Obama and got banned from entering the states..
 
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spacejamz

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
10,970
1,679
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I don't know what you're talking about. There is no government censorship here. The issue isn't between Molly Norris and the U.S. Government. It's between Molly Norris and radical islamists making death threats.

- wolf

I never claimed that the freedoms that are disappearing were due to government censorship...

The fact, none the less, is that we cannot say Merry Christmas now without having to look over our shoulder to see anyone might be offended.

My point still stands that our freedoms are slowing being diminished, whether it be because of foreigners who get offended by two people wishing each other holiday greetings in the United States where they freely chose to emigrate to or because we do not 'honor' Muslim tradition/customs/laws or whatever and yet they cannot honor our freedom of expression.

White supremacists still have the right to spew their BS and hatred and not fear for the lives because they don't have to deal with the BS that Molly is dealing with...

What would happen if someone demanded the death of this Anwar al-Awlaki clown because he disagrees with free speech and then someone actually did it? I guess they think it is okay to issue death threats against others but they would get their panties in wad if someone threatened them?

It would probably make the Danish cartoon riots look like a Sunday picnic...
 

Linflas

Lifer
Jan 30, 2001
15,395
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I don't know what you're talking about. There is no government censorship here. The issue isn't between Molly Norris and the U.S. Government. It's between Molly Norris and radical islamists making death threats.

- wolf

And unlike so many of the responsibilities assumed by government, ensuring the safety of people like Molly Norris is one of the fundamental reasons we institute governments.
 
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Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
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Below is the real shame in all of this (if true). We expect radical Muslims to issue these type fatwas; they are nothing new (remember Salmon Rushdie?). But this silence from those who should speak out reeks of acquiescence.

* The paragraph above, of course, is pure fantasy. The truth: The saga of Molly Norris has elicited hardly any notice from political leaders, elite journalists, and celebrities. Nor has it stirred to action those who claim to represent America's Islamic community. Nor have I seen anything from Human Rights Watch. The ACLU is actually defending al-Awlaki. At the U.N., Muslim-majority countries are pushing to ban criticism of Islam under international law.

Fern
 

Linflas

Lifer
Jan 30, 2001
15,395
78
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Well now that we have a Muslim President it's not unreasonable to assume that he greenlighted a government sponsored hit on this woman.

The funny thing is that if he had come out as publicly and forcefully regarding this as he has with the NY Mosque or his buddy Skip Gate's police encounter he would go a long way towards putting that muslim nonsense to rest.
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,153
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Isn't making a death threat Illegal in USA? Why can't they be prosecuted?

There was an incident not so long ago, where a boy from UK(?) threatened Obama and got banned from entering the states..

Uhm, the guy who issued the Fatwa for Norris' death is being targetted by the Obama administration for killing. And it is controversial that he is doing so. So what exactly is your point here?

- wolf
 

spacejamz

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
10,970
1,679
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Below is the real shame in all of this (if true). We expect radical Muslims to issue these type fatwas; they are nothing new (remember Salmon Rushdie?). But this silence from those who should speak out reeks of acquiescence.

Fern

There will never be World Peace until these Muslim issues are resolved...Sadly, although I believe that the West would probably compromise to reach some sort of agreement, these radical muslims will not allow that to happen nor will the non-radicals oppose the will of the radicals...

Until the world realizes this and does something to address it (which will never happen), there will never be lasting peace....all you will have is a bunch of pissed off Muslims who will continue to spread their hatred of the West...
 

busydude

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2010
8,793
5
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Uhm, the guy who issued the Fatwa for Norris' death is being targetted by the Obama administration for killing. And it is controversial that he is doing so. So what exactly is your point here? - wolf

My point is, when a lone guy rants about killing Obama online, he is banned from entering the US and yet, an Islamic organization sends death threats to the creators of South Park(Revolution Muslim), Molly Norris and many others.. what is the Govt doing? I know its a sensitive issue but, why can't they take action on those hardlined organizations(based in the US) as they did on that guy.

TMK they did not take any action on Revolution Muslim.
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,153
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My point is, when a lone guy rants about killing Obama online, he is banned from entering the US and yet, an Islamic organization sends death threats to the creators of South Park(Revolution Muslim), Molly Norris and many others.. what is the Govt doing? I know its a sensitive issue but, why can't they take action on those hardlined organizations(based in the US) as they did on that guy.

TMK they did not take any action on Revolution Muslim.

Like I said, the Obama administration has targetted the man who issued the Fatwa against Norris for assassination. The man is believed to be involved in the planning of terrorist attacks, is not in the United States, and is being hunted by the U.S. Government. And you're talking about enforcing laws against death threats which is basically a misdemeanor? Are you kidding me? At this point al-Awlaki's Fatwa against Norris is the least of the government's concern. Al-Awlaki is believed to be the person who recruited the underwear bomber for chrissake.

Find me a case where death threats are made by people in the United States, who are thus under the jurisdiction of U.S. law enforcement, and where no action is taken, and I'll listen. Otherwise, your point is pretty weak.

- wolf
 
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drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,034
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What would happen if someone demanded the death of this Anwar al-Awlaki clown because he disagrees with free speech and then someone actually did it? I guess they think it is okay to issue death threats against others but they would get their panties in wad if someone threatened them?

It's OK to be a bigot and a racist as long as you target white people. It's the biggest double standard of modern liberalism.

As long as the target of your hate isn't a "minority" or "underpriviledged" group, you're perfectly allowed to hate.
 

bl4ckfl4g

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2007
3,669
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I never claimed that the freedoms that are disappearing were due to government censorship...

The fact, none the less, is that we cannot say Merry Christmas now without having to look over our shoulder to see anyone might be offended.

My point still stands that our freedoms are slowing being diminished, whether it be because of foreigners who get offended by two people wishing each other holiday greetings in the United States where they freely chose to emigrate to or because we do not 'honor' Muslim tradition/customs/laws or whatever and yet they cannot honor our freedom of expression.

White supremacists still have the right to spew their BS and hatred and not fear for the lives because they don't have to deal with the BS that Molly is dealing with...

What would happen if someone demanded the death of this Anwar al-Awlaki clown because he disagrees with free speech and then someone actually did it? I guess they think it is okay to issue death threats against others but they would get their panties in wad if someone threatened them?

It would probably make the Danish cartoon riots look like a Sunday picnic...

Your freedom to say merry christmas isn't being diminished. You are just too worried about offending someone. It is your own fault. Grow up, be a man, and stand up for what you believe in instead of crying like a child because you are worried about hurting someone's feelings.
 

spacejamz

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
10,970
1,679
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Your freedom to say merry christmas isn't being diminished. You are just too worried about offending someone. It is your own fault. Grow up, be a man, and stand up for what you believe in instead of crying like a child because you are worried about hurting someone's feelings.


Tell that to the cities that don't display christmas trees at the mall or airports anymore.

Tell that to the companies who now have Holiday parties instead of Christmas parties.

Tell that to the retail employees who have been instructed by their managers to say Happy Holidays to not offend their customers.

You are a moron with your head in the sand who doesn't live in the real world...Why don't you try your macho shit at your job and see how long you last with your HR department tough guy and let us know what happens...
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
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I disagree with the notion of calling these intolerant people "radical Islamists". Instead I would prefer that people refer to them simply as "Muslims", as I strongly suspect if you took a poll of randomly sampled Muslim people around the world, you'd find that a startlingly large percentage of them would advocate her death.
 

bl4ckfl4g

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2007
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Tell that to the cities that don't display christmas trees at the mall or airports anymore.

Tell that to the companies who now have Holiday parties instead of Christmas parties.

Tell that to the retail employees who have been instructed by their managers to say Happy Holidays to not offend their customers.

You are a moron with your head in the sand who doesn't live in the real world...Why don't you try your macho shit at your job and see how long you last with your HR department tough guy and let us know what happens...

I don't confuse my freedoms with things like my employement. I have the freedom to say whatever I want at work and they have the freedom to fire me. Freedom of speech only applies if your employer is the government.

Also, the mall, or at least any that I've ever heard of are not owned by the city. It is their freedom to not put up a christmas tree. Why do you want to infringe on their rights?

It appears you are the one not living in the real world, or maybe you just misread the constitution.
 

spacejamz

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
10,970
1,679
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I don't confuse my freedoms with things like my employement. I have the freedom to say whatever I want at work and they have the freedom to fire me. Freedom of speech only applies if your employer is the government.

Also, the mall, or at least any that I've ever heard of are not owned by the city. It is their freedom to not put up a christmas tree. Why do you want to infringe on their rights?

It appears you are the one not living in the real world, or maybe you just misread the constitution.

Those cities have been displaying Christmas symbols since this country was founded. Some cities have had to take down their displays because some people were offended.

If you cannot see that their freedom to display Christmas symbols has been taken away, then you are a moron. I have seen Christmas trees and manager displays at public places since the 70's...however, in this era of political correctness in recent years, Americans who have been accustomed to this all of their lives will be enjoying these sights less and less because of people who have recently emigrated here and are offended by them...

Why are retail employees TOLD they CANNOT say Merry Christmas and must say Happy Holidays instead? How the fuck does a foreigner find that offensive here?

You should crawl out of your mom's basement more often...
 

bl4ckfl4g

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2007
3,669
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Those cities have been displaying Christmas symbols since this country was founded. Some cities have had to take down their displays because some people were offended.

If you cannot see that their freedom to display Christmas symbols has been taken away, then you are a moron. I have seen Christmas trees and manager displays at public places since the 70's...however, in this era of political correctness in recent years, Americans who have been accustomed to this all of their lives will be enjoying these sights less and less because of people who have recently emigrated here and are offended by them...

Why are retail employees TOLD they CANNOT say Merry Christmas and must say Happy Holidays instead? How the fuck does a foreigner find that offensive here?

You should crawl out of your mom's basement more often...

Regardless of why the employer cares, it is their right to manage the way you interact with customers.

Christmas symbols were displayed on govt. property but that doesn't mean it was right. Unless they are displaying other religions' symbolism when requested, they are in violation of the constitution.

You can get all mad and childish and insult as you see fit but it still doesn't make you right.
 

routan

Senior member
Sep 12, 2010
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As a corollary to this thread, may I ask why making a "death threat" is a crime or an offense? Does this not fall under "expression"? I am only asking for opinions, so please do not indulge in ancilliary banters.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
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As a corollary to this thread, may I ask why making a "death threat" is a crime or an offense? Does this not fall under "expression"? I am only asking for opinions, so please do not indulge in ancilliary banters.

That's like asking why stealing is a crime. Well, making threats is a crime because this society feels it is a criminal act to do so. Expression is not without established limits, and threats are one of those limits.