The difference between between an X800XT and XTPE

[Alkaline5]

According to Firingsquad the regular XT will be a slightly slower, PCIe only, 16-pipe R423 card. There will be no BBA PCIe X800Pro, but OEMs will be able to produce PCIe Pros.

X600 PCIe cards are basically OCed 9600s, and there are no plans to replace the current AGP 9600 series.

No news on possible X800SEs.

 

[nemesismk2]

Originally posted by: Alkaline5
According to Firingsquad the regular XT will be a slightly slower, PCIe only, 16-pipe R423 card. There will be no BBA PCIe X800Pro, but OEMs will be able to produce PCIe Pros.

X600 PCIe cards are basically OCed 9600s, and there are no plans to replace the current AGP 9600 series.

No news on possible X800SEs.

Doesn't sound like great news for ati fans to me?

 

[GeneralGrievous]

This is good news. For $50 cheaper you get essentially the same card.

 

[RussianSensation]

Originally posted by: GeneralGrievous
This is good news. For $50 cheaper you get essentially the same card.

I am sorry are you reading between the lines?

Considering 99% of all users out there DO NOT OWN PCIe compatible motherboards and will not for a long time, that leaves ATI with a complete gap between X800Pro and X800xt pe, leaving 6800GT as the best card of choice. First it was the 4200, then the 5900xt, now the 6800gt. 3 generations in a row, ATI is still unable to provide a good price/performance alternative at the upper end unlike its competitor. I think if ATI dropped X800Pro to around $349 level and introduced an AGP and PCIe version of the X800xt at $419 and left X800xt pe at $499 then things would be much better off for them than they are now. Most enthusiasts will not buy X800xt pe because it costs a whoooping $500 and they will not buy a 6800ultra when 6800gt costs $100 less and EASILY overlcocks to 6800ultra speeds while having full 16 pipelines. Even if ATI introduces X800xt, the PCIe-only format will not ensure them any advantage because most users are still looking to upgrade using the AGP format. Not to mention the fact that AMD's A64 processors are fastest for gaming right now, and AMD has mentioned that it will not switch to PCIe format for another 6 months at the earliest. Anandtech notes that PCIe will become mainstream only close to 2006 and as such companies should try to offer both versions of the cards to target as many users as possible.

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: RussianSensation

Originally posted by: GeneralGrievous
This is good news. For $50 cheaper you get essentially the same card.

I am sorry are you reading between the lines?

Considering 99% of all users out there DO NOT OWN PCIe compatible motherboards and will not for a long time, that leaves ATI with a complete gap between X800Pro and X800xt pe, leaving 6800GT as the best card of choice. First it was the 4200, then the 5900xt, now the 6800gt. 3 generations in a row, ATI is still unable to provide a good price/performance alternative at the upper end unlike its competitor. I think if ATI dropped X800Pro to around $349 level and introduced an AGP and PCIe version of the X800xt at $419 and left X800xt pe at $499 then things would be much better off for them than they are now. Most enthusiasts will not buy X800xt pe because it costs a whoooping $500 and they will not buy a 6800ultra when 6800gt costs $100 less and EASILY overlcocks to 6800ultra speeds while having full 16 pipelines. Even if ATI introduces X800xt, the PCIe-only format will not ensure them any advantage because most users are still looking to upgrade using the AGP format. Not to mention the fact that AMD's A64 processors are fastest for gaming right now, and AMD has mentioned that it will not switch to PCIe format for another 6 months at the earliest. Anandtech notes that PCIe will become mainstream only close to 2006 and as such companies should try to offer both versions of the cards to target as many users as possible.

by the time the 9800 pro rolled around, wasnt the 9700 pro in the $200 range? if so, i would say that was pretty good price to performance

 

[Alkaline5]

Originally posted by: shady06
by the time the 9800 pro rolled around, wasnt the 9700 pro in the $200 range? if so, i would say that was pretty good price to performance

The 9700np was $200 shortly before it disappeared, but the 9700Pro stayed around $240-250 for at least 6 months after the 9800Pro's release.

 

[Chunkee]

they came with a carton of menthols too, those were the days

 

[Pete]

Perhaps you're not reading the lines themselves, RS? ATi won't be selling 500/500 AGP XTs or PEG Pros retail, but there's nothing precluding ATi's partners from doing so.

Besides, you can still get on two waiting lists for sub-retail XTPE's ($460 @ CDW, $390-435 @ Gateway).

 

[TStep]

There is just too big of a price and performance gap between X600 and the X800pro. 4 pipes to 12 pipes. MSRP $200 to $400. Since I don't see an 8 pipe version of X800 in there, I think this leaves the door wide open for the vanilla 6800 as the only choice at around MSRP $300 (probably low $200s after market stabilizes)

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: TStep
There is just too big of a price and performance gap between X600 and the X800pro. 4 pipes to 12 pipes. MSRP $200 to $400. Since I don't see an 8 pipe version of X800 in there, I think this leaves the door wide open for the vanilla 6800 as the only choice at around MSRP $300 (probably low $200s after market stabilizes)

ATI was *supposed* to be bringing out the "X800SE" -- an 8-pipe X800 -- at a $300 MSRP. That card would theoretically compete with the 6800NU. It has not materialized as of yet.

If the 6800NU gets to ~$200, the 9800Pro would have to be at around $140-150 (to maintain similar price/performance ratios). As much as I'd like to see this happen, I think the 9800Pro will stay close to $200 for now, and that will let NVIDIA keep the 6800NU at about $300. Things could be very different in 6 months, though.

 

[TStep]

I can agree with you Mathias and we'll have to wait to see how the realistic pricing/availbilty shakes out. However, it is a little disturbing not to see a choice at the $300 MSRP level. I have to believe that castrated X800pros will make it to market in some form.

 

[Pete]

Maybe ATi is getting better-than-expected 12+ pipe yields for the R420, and currently prefers to ship the higher-profit X800P/XT cards while demand is still outstripping supply? We may sooner see a 12-pipe R420 with slower DDR1 memory before we do an 8-pipe R420, if GPU yields are very good. Either that, or ATi will keep selling 9800Ps, though I hope that won't be the case.

 

[GeneralGrievous]

You can get an x800 Pro for $330, not that much above the $300 level.

 

[ZobarStyl]

The problem with ATi's current lineup is that their mystery 8 pipe card (x800SE) is going to be comparable to a 9800pro but they'll have to market it at 300 MSRP or thereabouts, where I doubt it can compete with the vanilla 6800. If they leave such an important market segment out they are definitely going to hurt...I'd love a GT but the vanilla 6800 is looking like a better and better buy.

Grievious don't expect the GT to stay at MSRP for long, once all the retailers have them they'll start cutting prices and you'll see GT's within range of the Pro...and for the same price it's just no contest. However if that drives the Pro's price down even more that might make it a real nice buy (crosses fingers).

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: RussianSensation

Originally posted by: GeneralGrievous
This is good news. For $50 cheaper you get essentially the same card.

I am sorry are you reading between the lines?

Considering 99% of all users out there DO NOT OWN PCIe compatible motherboards and will not for a long time, that leaves ATI with a complete gap between X800Pro and X800xt pe, leaving 6800GT as the best card of choice. First it was the 4200, then the 5900xt, now the 6800gt. 3 generations in a row, ATI is still unable to provide a good price/performance alternative at the upper end unlike its competitor. I think if ATI dropped X800Pro to around $349 level and introduced an AGP and PCIe version of the X800xt at $419 and left X800xt pe at $499 then things would be much better off for them than they are now. Most enthusiasts will not buy X800xt pe because it costs a whoooping $500 and they will not buy a 6800ultra when 6800gt costs $100 less and EASILY overlcocks to 6800ultra speeds while having full 16 pipelines. Even if ATI introduces X800xt, the PCIe-only format will not ensure them any advantage because most users are still looking to upgrade using the AGP format. Not to mention the fact that AMD's A64 processors are fastest for gaming right now, and AMD has mentioned that it will not switch to PCIe format for another 6 months at the earliest. Anandtech notes that PCIe will become mainstream only close to 2006 and as such companies should try to offer both versions of the cards to target as many users as possible.

Now tell me when $400+ cards will become mainstream.

 

[RussianSensation]

Originally posted by: Pete
Perhaps you're not reading the lines themselves, RS? ATi won't be selling 500/500 AGP XTs or PEG Pros retail, but there's nothing precluding ATi's partners from doing so.

Besides, you can still get on two waiting lists for sub-retail XTPE's ($460 @ CDW, $390-435 @ Gateway).

Thats right I didnt care to think about the other partners. Lets hope so, otherwise they would be in trouble.

 

[RussianSensation]

Originally posted by: Lonyo

Now tell me when $400+ cards will become mainstream.

I am just saying for people to start buying PCIe cards, they have to have PCIe compatible motherboards. It will take a while before people make a switch. I think 2006 is a reasonable amount of time because 9800Pro/5900 generation cards shoulnd't be totally obsolete for another year and that still leaves many with an upgrade path on AGP format with 6800 and x800 series. So you could still upgrade now and wait 2 years before these powerful cards become slow. Only then you will be forced to move to PCIe. So I think it was a fair assessment by them. Besides by mainstream I think they meant to take up more than 50% of the market in terms of "connection format"; and this wont happen overnight.