Originally posted by: Craig234
Aelius, I think there is some truth in what you say, but like the old metaphor of the elephant and the blind men, it treats a part of the picture as more of the whole than it is.
In fact, the belief in democracy is important in itself, in that if you deliver the message that our democracy is meaningless and people have no power and they believe it, it becomes more true, whereas if you fan the idea that they are the rulers of the nation, then their tolerance for the problems you describe is less, and they'll be more apt to resist.
It's true that we're a long ways from the days of Kennedy, and much truth is virtually taboo in public discussion today. But the road to improvement starts with small steps in the right direction. I think the republicans have become such an instrument of corruption, and the danger is high enough that as they continue to gain power there is a danger of their gaining a domination of the democrats as well which they do not have so much today, that I think it is important to vote the republicans out of office and stop the bleeding now.
Look at history - following the great depression, it was clear change was coming; we could have elected a 'moderate' democrat who would have made small changes, but for the good of the nation, we got lucky and elected a bold leader. We need to do so again.
I think few knew that FDR or JFK would be the leaders they were, and we can't be sure of who we'll get today, but we're better off supporting shifting away from the devil we know to the people know are better, just not how much better.
I'm converned that this time, the public propaganda machine is so much more effective than it has ever been, that our international situation is so much worse than it has ever been as the anti-democratic nations of the world prepare to surpass us economically as we sink further into debt, that our core value of individual power is in danger.
The things you mentioned are issues, but I don't think they're the primary ones. We had feudalism, extreme povertty, robber barons in this nation before 1913, and we had the growth of a historic middle class and many great reforms under FDR after 1913.
Let's try to derail the train of evil that we're riding on now, and then see what we can do about the 1913 issues.
I think clarification is in order.
I never said that what we think Democracy is not Democracy. I think most people hold it very dear to their heart and think highly of our ideals of it. As do I.
I'm referring to small parts of government in the hands of very powerful individuals who unfortunately are in such key positions that they can do anything. Because they are in such key posts it reflects on the entire nation. They lead it. Well they don't actually lead it, but that's what we see from our point of view. They run it from day to day, but they answer to the bankers who own the Federal Reserve. Unfortunately there is no way to know who they all are since I don't think a full ownership of the Federal Reserve has ever been printed.
I'm not asking for a belief in Democracy. Everyone has that in them already. I'm asking for understanding that what we hold dear is at grave risk. Is it too late? No. Can we do something non violent at this point? Yes. Education. Above all else people need to know their rights and they need to know the history of these organizations as well as the concept of what money means to a nation. How money can be used to control policy as well as who you vote for.
What I don't agree with you is what you buy into and that's a polarized political process. As if the Democrats will save us from the evil Republicans. I belieave in individuals within the two major parties. Very few and very far between but they exist. Kennedy and his brother are examples.
So Democrats....
Clinton did at LEAST as much damage to civil rights, freedom and liberty in the US as Bush. Personally I think Clinton laid the foundations and Bush simply built on it by passing laws to try to make it legit. That's quite a statement to make. Can I back it up?
I will now quote 60 Minutes:
"?A lady had been to a school play the night before, and her son was in the school play and she thought he did a-a lousy job. Next morning, she was talking on the telephone to her friend, and she said to her friend something like this, ?Oh, Danny really bombed last night,? just like that. The computer spit that conversation out. The analyst that was looking at it was not too sure about what the conversation w-was referring to, so erring on the side of caution, he listed that lady and her phone number in the database as a possible terrorist.?
?This is not urban legend you?re talking about. This actually happened?? Kroft asked.
?Factual. Absolutely fact. No legend here.?
If anyone is wondering what that could be... that's ECHELON.
Read about ECHELON under Clinton
here.
Transcript
The fact that it doesn't upset anyone is what pisses me off. It pisses me off because you people are pissing away what freedoms you have and take everything for granted. While I grew up under Communism where I went through the same fvcking thing.
That doesn't even touch on the hundreds of Executive Orders Clinton issued. That doesn't include the PDDs he issued as well which are not printed anywhere and even Congress is not privy to. Note: PDD = Executive Order (kept secret)
Only a few leaked info exists on PDDs. Mostly when they were used to circumvent US law.
That man should be sitting in jail. Bush should be in a cell next to him.
These people acted/act effectively as dictators. Both of them. People can spin it if they like.
The Media? Burried it or supported Clinton. Acts like these make Conservatives say that the Media is largely Liberal or that certain news orgs are Liberal. That's also polarized bullsh!t. What is true is that they played soft on Democrats and played hard against Republicans. It's the oldest trick in the book and people fell for it. Good Cop, Bad Cop.
Or I guess it's Bad Cop, Worst Cop.
All major news orgs are part of this system. There are simply individuals within them that are good and in high places. Very few and very far between.
However you cannot ignore that large parts of these organizatins, as well as the government, act in their own intrests. They don't serve any morals but their own. Watch a documentary called "Spin". That may give people a new perspective on big media.
It's also important to understand that there are degrees of Fascism as there are degrees of anything. However the principles remain the same. Either you are something or you aren't. To what degree... well that's up to argument.
America is a Fascist state. It's modeled after Europe. That's where central banks started. I just think all this push towards Fascism is more visible in the US right now because the US is the largest military force. It draws attention. 700+ military bases overseas in some 130 nations out of 193. That's only the official ones on paper that doesn't list even known official bases. It's doubtful that more than a few people at the Pentagon know exactly how many bases the US has overseas. That doesn't count secret bases.
If all of this isn't the makings of an Empire I don't know what is. One thing is for sure, it's not for the benefit of Freedom, Democracy, or the US tax payer.
You know what... don't listen to me. Do your own research. (speaking to anyone who reads this and gives a damn about Democracy as we like to think of it)
Educate yourself.
P.S. It would take another Kennedy to derail this train of evil and they would likely assassinate them like they did JFK and RFK.
P.P.S. Kerry and Bush are cousins and both belong to Skull and Bones.
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