jonks
Lifer
- Feb 7, 2005
- 13,918
- 20
- 81
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: dmens
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Rainsford
That's silly, you can't separate criticism of beliefs and criticism of an individual. For most people, Muslim or otherwise, their religion is a big part of who they are...saying that their religion is "wretched" implies the same about the individuals who practice it. And in any case, you're missing the bigger problem...Islam as dictated by the Koran is hardly unique among world religions, have you actually ever read the Bible? Yet you reserve you hatred for Islam alone, and despise the people who practice it and the people who defend the moderate Muslims.</end quote></div>
the supposed definition of islamophobia is prejudice and/or discrimination against muslims, but criticism of their system of beliefs in no way implies any such thing. it was their choice to revolve their lives around the religion, so how does that make the islamic beliefs so sacred they cannot be criticized? many of the tenets espoused in the koran are completely wretched, there is no doubt about it. it is up to the muslims themselves to decide what to make of it.
christianity is dictated by the bible? you obviously have no clue. the koran is considered by all muslims to be direct revelations from allah to mohammed, whereas most christians see the bible as a collection of moral stories. hence, the koran gives divine obligation to all kinds of atrocious behavior, whereas the bible does no such thing.
enough with your personal attacks. you simply assume i hate muslims because i find the islamic system of beliefs to be barbaric and tribal, and give everyone else a free pass. that's ridiculous. monotheists, christians included, have been responsible for many of history's greatest crimes. but zooming in on this day and age, using age-old christian atrocities to deflect and suppress criticism of islam is totally dishonest.</end quote></div>
You admit "most Christians" see the bible as morality plays, and not the actual word of god. And yet there is a small minority of fanatic extremists that believe every word in the bible is true (see Creationist Museum" thread.) So why is it so hard to understand that that same minority exists in Islam, those who think its god's will to kill? Clearly not all Muslims follow every tenet in the Koran, and not every tenet adhered to is interpreted the same way. That's why some Muslims have one wife, other's believe in polygamy. The Quran states something like "you must treat all your wives equally." Some Muslim philosophers have argued that since it is not possible to treat two people exactly equally, this passage must be interpreted to mean you can only have one wife. Others disagree and argue the plain meaning is obvious, that you can have multiple wives.
I understand one part of the Quran states something along the lines of "there is no worse enemy to the Muslim than the Jew." Now, I live in NYC and have Muslim friends. Clearly they don't believe every word of the Quran, or choose to ignore it, or rationalize around it. You can certainly criticise the parts of the Quran you disagree with, or criticise interpretations of passages you disagree with, but you certainly cannot claim that one billion people people practice a religion of hate. It would collapse unto itself.
Remember, the bible instructs us that menstruating women are unclean and must be kept apart for 7 days, or anyone they touch or anything they sit on becomes unclean and need be exiled. [Insert 'i dont trust anything that bleeds for days and doesn't die' joke here]
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Rainsford
That's silly, you can't separate criticism of beliefs and criticism of an individual. For most people, Muslim or otherwise, their religion is a big part of who they are...saying that their religion is "wretched" implies the same about the individuals who practice it. And in any case, you're missing the bigger problem...Islam as dictated by the Koran is hardly unique among world religions, have you actually ever read the Bible? Yet you reserve you hatred for Islam alone, and despise the people who practice it and the people who defend the moderate Muslims.</end quote></div>
the supposed definition of islamophobia is prejudice and/or discrimination against muslims, but criticism of their system of beliefs in no way implies any such thing. it was their choice to revolve their lives around the religion, so how does that make the islamic beliefs so sacred they cannot be criticized? many of the tenets espoused in the koran are completely wretched, there is no doubt about it. it is up to the muslims themselves to decide what to make of it.
christianity is dictated by the bible? you obviously have no clue. the koran is considered by all muslims to be direct revelations from allah to mohammed, whereas most christians see the bible as a collection of moral stories. hence, the koran gives divine obligation to all kinds of atrocious behavior, whereas the bible does no such thing.
enough with your personal attacks. you simply assume i hate muslims because i find the islamic system of beliefs to be barbaric and tribal, and give everyone else a free pass. that's ridiculous. monotheists, christians included, have been responsible for many of history's greatest crimes. but zooming in on this day and age, using age-old christian atrocities to deflect and suppress criticism of islam is totally dishonest.</end quote></div>
You admit "most Christians" see the bible as morality plays, and not the actual word of god. And yet there is a small minority of fanatic extremists that believe every word in the bible is true (see Creationist Museum" thread.) So why is it so hard to understand that that same minority exists in Islam, those who think its god's will to kill? Clearly not all Muslims follow every tenet in the Koran, and not every tenet adhered to is interpreted the same way. That's why some Muslims have one wife, other's believe in polygamy. The Quran states something like "you must treat all your wives equally." Some Muslim philosophers have argued that since it is not possible to treat two people exactly equally, this passage must be interpreted to mean you can only have one wife. Others disagree and argue the plain meaning is obvious, that you can have multiple wives.
I understand one part of the Quran states something along the lines of "there is no worse enemy to the Muslim than the Jew." Now, I live in NYC and have Muslim friends. Clearly they don't believe every word of the Quran, or choose to ignore it, or rationalize around it. You can certainly criticise the parts of the Quran you disagree with, or criticise interpretations of passages you disagree with, but you certainly cannot claim that one billion people people practice a religion of hate. It would collapse unto itself.
Remember, the bible instructs us that menstruating women are unclean and must be kept apart for 7 days, or anyone they touch or anything they sit on becomes unclean and need be exiled. [Insert 'i dont trust anything that bleeds for days and doesn't die' joke here]
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