The "deficit crisis" is mostly solved.

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
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http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/10/the-mostly-solved-deficit-problem/

The Mostly Solved Deficit Problem
Paul Krugman

The vertical axis measures the projected ratio of federal debt to GDP. The blue line at the top represents the projected path of that ratio as of early 2011 — that is, before recent agreements on spending cuts and tax increases. This projection showed a rising path for debt as far as the eye could see.

And just about all budget discussion in Washington and the news media is laid out as if that were still the case. But a lot has happened since then. The orange line shows the effects of those spending cuts and tax hikes: As long as the economy recovers, which is an assumption built into all these projections, the debt ratio will more or less stabilize soon.

CBPP goes on to advocate another $1.4 trillion in revenue and/or spending cuts, which would bring the debt ratio at the end of the decade back down to around its current level. But the larger message here is surely that for the next decade, the debt outlook actually doesn’t look all that bad.



It's nice when a winner of the Nobel Prize for economics agrees with me.
The so called crisis was really a result of the tremendous collapse of the economy due to the financial meltdown and the irresponsible tax cuts. I have always said that once the economy starts returning to normal the fantastically huge deficit projections will come way down and that even a relativey small increase in taxes will have huge results. It still leaves us with some work to do, but nothing like the doom and gloom the austerity advocates were going on about.

California is projected to have a surplus this year. Why? Some cost cutting definitely. But its the economy coming back.

So, now we know why the Republicans are going all out on the debt ceiling. They need to push their extreme agenda before the recovery invalidates their doomsday scenarios.

Now, if only the Republicans don't destroy the economy by forcing the US into default we can move ahead with a reasonable economic policy.
 
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chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,018
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So this time next year the federal debt will be less in dollar amount than it is right now? Awesome, I never would have thought that.
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
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ostif.org
So this time next year the federal debt will be less in dollar amount than it is right now? Awesome, I never would have thought that.

The ratio will be lower.

Meaning the dollar amount will be higher, but it will not be outpacing the growth of the economy, in GDP.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
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And projections are always spot on.

Only when Republicans want to use it to cut retirement, or unemployment benefits or health care.
When they want to cut taxes on the rich they make up insane things like Laffler curves and claim its spot on.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
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Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, I guess you must be a gullible OP who actually believed this too:

unemployment-against-projections.jpg
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,986
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Yes, just as we will have more "summer of recovery". Biden said so and I believe him. And just as the unemployment will go down if we pass so and so stimulus bill. Right? :D <tonge in cheek>
 
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chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,018
37
91
Reading is hard.

Was that a Yes, or a No? techs seems to suggest Yes. Are you saying differently?

The ratio will be lower.

Meaning the dollar amount will be higher, but it will not be outpacing the growth of the economy, in GDP.

So then absolutely nothing is solved, other than the yearly budget deficit is projected, with very large assumptions, to be lessened.

Wowzers...sounds worthy of a (really unbiased) Krugman article! Oh wait...
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
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http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/gdpnewsrelease.htm

Based upon the 3rd quarter Dollar GDP it was around $15,811.0 billion (about 15.8T) using the growth estimates for the 4th quarter, our GDP should top about 21T. So basic math

Debt/GDP -->> 16T/21T = 76%.

Math fail. From the link you posted:

Current-dollar GDP -- the market value of the nation's output of goods and services -- increased 5.9 percent, or $225.4 billion, in the third quarter to a level of $15,811.0 billion.

Growth at a 3.1% rate, even if achieved, will grow $15.8 trillion to $21 trillion over the course of the next 9-10 years, but the denominator of the debt isn't exactly decreasing either.
 
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Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
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Only when Republicans want to use it to cut retirement, or unemployment benefits or health care.
When they want to cut taxes on the rich they make up insane things like Laffler curves and claim its spot on.

252045_10151163310666568_1307275471_n.jpg


How is this projection doing so far?
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
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So this time next year the federal debt will be less in dollar amount than it is right now? Awesome, I never would have thought that.

Why is the a relevant figure?

Say that your household debt increases by 10%, but your income doubles. Hasn't your financial situation improved?

Debt is already over 100% of GDP. Where the hell do they get 72% from?

Publicly held debt vs. debt the federal government owes to itself.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
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Why is the a relevant figure?

Say that your household debt increases by 10%, but your income doubles. Hasn't your financial situation improved?



Publicly held debt vs. debt the federal government owes to itself.

Sweet, so we can just ignore a few Trillion.
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,018
37
91
Why is the a relevant figure?

Say that your household debt increases by 10%, but your income doubles. Hasn't your financial situation improved?

For sure. But really it's more like, my debt level keeps increasing forever, I never pay the amount down, and I project my income will be higher in 7 years to the point where I'll stop running a yearly deficit.

There you go...now it's accurate.

Wouldn't it be nice to make $100k a year and blow $150k a year, every year, and never have to reconcile that? Heck, the Fed wants to stimulate the economy, they should just pass some kind of law (based of course on regulating interstate commerce and public welfare) where everyone can do just that. Bam! Instant roaring economy!

Heck, if I never have to worry about paying my debts, and can run massively in the red like the Fed does each year, I'll be generous with my red money and commit to blowing $200k a year. <AustinPowers>Doing my part baby, yeah!</AustinPowers>

Chuck
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,018
37
91
Big difference is projecting a deficit for 2013 has about the same odds of happening as saying the sun will come up tomorrow.

Is there even a budget to have a deficit on? Last I'd paid attention, good 'Ol Harry wouldn't even let it come to the floor of the Senate. Hard to have a budget deficit when there's no budget.

Damn! That's genius!

Pass a Fed law that no household is to have a budget. Bam! Along with my idea above, DoubleXP economy!!! I knew people living within their means were doing it wrong, damn!
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
For sure. But really it's more like, my debt level keeps increasing forever, I never pay the amount down, and I project my income will be higher in 7 years to the point where I'll stop running a yearly deficit.

There you go...now it's accurate.

Wouldn't it be nice to make $100k a year and blow $150k a year, every year, and never have to reconcile that? Heck, the Fed wants to stimulate the economy, they should just pass some kind of law (based of course on regulating interstate commerce and public welfare) where everyone can do just that. Bam! Instant roaring economy!

Heck, if I never have to worry about paying my debts, and can run massively in the red like the Fed does each year, I'll be generous with my red money and commit to blowing $200k a year. <AustinPowers>Doing my part baby, yeah!</AustinPowers>

Chuck

Except in real relevant terms your debt level is decreasing or staying the same.
 

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
2,814
0
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Big difference is projecting a deficit for 2013 has about the same odds of happening as saying the sun will come up tomorrow.

Your comment completely disregarded something simply due to the use of the word projection, so there is no difference there.

Now, you are adding nuance by examining the assumptions and data that go into said projection. If you had done that with the OP, I wouldn't have responded.