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The Declining real cost of living in America
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catnap1972
Platinum Member
OMG--you simply CAN'T be this stupid to have said this (it's just not possible) 😕
I think this kind of report is somewhat worthless, because there are so many different "standards of living" that making a cost analysis of a national standard of living is abstracted to the point of being meaningless.
I'll give you an example. I spent part of my childhood in India, which (as everyone knows) is a developing nation, i.e. it's poor. People living in filth, villagers with no technology, power outtages, disease, etc.
What most people don't know is that this is all true...but true for the lower class. This economic class is incredibly large, of course, but in a nation as large as India, even a small percentage of middle and upper-middle class amounts to a massive number of people as well.
I have friends and relatives who are middle class in various parts of India. I can say without a doubt that their standard of living is much, much higher than mine here in the United States.
Their neighborhoods are clean. Because they are middle class, police patrol frequently and take care of things promptly. Many of them live in new housing developments, meaning that they own houses that are less than a couple of years old. They own more than one car, and have a driver to drive it for them. They have servants to clean the house. They have better healthcare than the United States, cheap enough that very few of them bother with health insurance (yes, there are "expensive" hospitals in India that offer world-class healthcare facilities, but you have to be middle class to afford them...and "expensive" is so much cheaper than the US that there's no comparison). They have high speed internet connections, backup power generators running on diesel fuel in the event of a power outtage, and live a life of absolute luxury. Their children eat at McDonalds, and shop in gigantic luxury shopping malls modeled on the best of Singapore...somewhat more luxurious than the US. They are members of elitist clubs where their children learn to ride horses or swim or play golf.
Now, think of the mental image you have in your mind of poor India, and then juxtapose this image. We're talking a standard of living that the upper-most classes in the US just about reach, which most of the Indian middle-class takes for granted. And this is why India is a bigger market for cell phone technology (for example) than the US...India has a fairly large middle class population (though not as a percentage, since there are so many more "poor" people in India) which makes for a gigantic market. Cars, computers...this stuff is selling, and selling fast. I know people giving up *very* comfortable jobs ($150k combined income from two earners) and lives in the US who are going back to India...to live at a much higher standard at a fraction of the cost. Their incomes are lower (in some cases, only a little lower) but their standard of living is so much higher, they're actually making more "real" income.
When both of these worlds can co-exist, what meaningful "standard of living" indicators could you use for India as a whole? General indicators say we're still a really poor country. An in-depth look says that we're an incredibly poor country with some incredibly well-off population groups. In neighboring Bangladesh, the gap is even wider, with the rich being much "richer" and the poor being much "poorer".
The US is the same. There are pockets in this country that live so richly, and others living so poorly, that I can't see a "national" averaging of the standard of living being meaningful. For example, I make almost *no* money...to the point where it's difficult for me to get a college education, because I can't afford it. Not being able to afford it earlier meant that I was working 40-60 hours a week while trying to maintain full time status at the nation's fifth ranked liberal arts college. The result? My grades sucked. This makes it almost impossible for me to transfer to a decent institution now. I can't afford healthcare in the US...if something bad happens, I have to hope it's not an emergency, or fly back to India to have it looked at (the plane ticket would be cheaper than my bills for even something minor here). I can't afford a car. If I was like most Americans I meet who are in my economic / social class, I would go further into debt to buy a car anyway. Buying a house is out of the question.
Will this change? Yes, because I have several years of website development experience. I am fairly certain my economic situation will change. But for many others I meet every day, I am as certain that change in their lives will be much more difficult. I work with community centers that teach technology classes to lower-income communities. You guys should try it sometime...or just try hanging out at the food stamps office someday. The "average" standards of living this article is talking about simply do not apply to specific populations...I think the range is too wide, statistically, for an averaging to be meaningful.
Dave.
I'll give you an example. I spent part of my childhood in India, which (as everyone knows) is a developing nation, i.e. it's poor. People living in filth, villagers with no technology, power outtages, disease, etc.
What most people don't know is that this is all true...but true for the lower class. This economic class is incredibly large, of course, but in a nation as large as India, even a small percentage of middle and upper-middle class amounts to a massive number of people as well.
I have friends and relatives who are middle class in various parts of India. I can say without a doubt that their standard of living is much, much higher than mine here in the United States.
Their neighborhoods are clean. Because they are middle class, police patrol frequently and take care of things promptly. Many of them live in new housing developments, meaning that they own houses that are less than a couple of years old. They own more than one car, and have a driver to drive it for them. They have servants to clean the house. They have better healthcare than the United States, cheap enough that very few of them bother with health insurance (yes, there are "expensive" hospitals in India that offer world-class healthcare facilities, but you have to be middle class to afford them...and "expensive" is so much cheaper than the US that there's no comparison). They have high speed internet connections, backup power generators running on diesel fuel in the event of a power outtage, and live a life of absolute luxury. Their children eat at McDonalds, and shop in gigantic luxury shopping malls modeled on the best of Singapore...somewhat more luxurious than the US. They are members of elitist clubs where their children learn to ride horses or swim or play golf.
Now, think of the mental image you have in your mind of poor India, and then juxtapose this image. We're talking a standard of living that the upper-most classes in the US just about reach, which most of the Indian middle-class takes for granted. And this is why India is a bigger market for cell phone technology (for example) than the US...India has a fairly large middle class population (though not as a percentage, since there are so many more "poor" people in India) which makes for a gigantic market. Cars, computers...this stuff is selling, and selling fast. I know people giving up *very* comfortable jobs ($150k combined income from two earners) and lives in the US who are going back to India...to live at a much higher standard at a fraction of the cost. Their incomes are lower (in some cases, only a little lower) but their standard of living is so much higher, they're actually making more "real" income.
When both of these worlds can co-exist, what meaningful "standard of living" indicators could you use for India as a whole? General indicators say we're still a really poor country. An in-depth look says that we're an incredibly poor country with some incredibly well-off population groups. In neighboring Bangladesh, the gap is even wider, with the rich being much "richer" and the poor being much "poorer".
The US is the same. There are pockets in this country that live so richly, and others living so poorly, that I can't see a "national" averaging of the standard of living being meaningful. For example, I make almost *no* money...to the point where it's difficult for me to get a college education, because I can't afford it. Not being able to afford it earlier meant that I was working 40-60 hours a week while trying to maintain full time status at the nation's fifth ranked liberal arts college. The result? My grades sucked. This makes it almost impossible for me to transfer to a decent institution now. I can't afford healthcare in the US...if something bad happens, I have to hope it's not an emergency, or fly back to India to have it looked at (the plane ticket would be cheaper than my bills for even something minor here). I can't afford a car. If I was like most Americans I meet who are in my economic / social class, I would go further into debt to buy a car anyway. Buying a house is out of the question.
Will this change? Yes, because I have several years of website development experience. I am fairly certain my economic situation will change. But for many others I meet every day, I am as certain that change in their lives will be much more difficult. I work with community centers that teach technology classes to lower-income communities. You guys should try it sometime...or just try hanging out at the food stamps office someday. The "average" standards of living this article is talking about simply do not apply to specific populations...I think the range is too wide, statistically, for an averaging to be meaningful.
Dave.
Red you're in Mass as well and you think this is true? or just everywhere but our state....
Seems like there are more materialistic yuppies here than virtually anywhere else (well possibly not NY)...if anything with the rise in upscale Malls and shopping centers I would say quite the opposite here, though there are also a growing number of Kohls and Targets as well...if anything I would think there is getting to be a much greater divide between the haves and the have nots and instead of the have nots aspiring to join the other half they are remaining content or at least trying to enjoy that which they can afford.
My god manchild, I know people with 5 cars. They never know which ones are going to start either, that's why they have backups. Real Progress!
I know couples who both work a full time job and a part time job to make ends meet. Now all we need is to do is get their lazy kids working too.
Try getting out of the ivory tower some day and see what's going on in the rest of the world.
dmcowen674
No Lifer
"It has no bearing on the REAL cost of living."
He is one of the most outspoken Republican Aplogists I have ever seen.
Spouting everything wrong as wrong can possible be yet expect the American Sheeple and Bush worshipers to believe it.
The really sad part is they DO in fact believe the nonsense spouted.
I point to the OP as well as the Republicans he represents as the destructors of the U.S.
Congrats guys, great job, The REAL Mission Accomplished.
I guess I could see south shore sure as they are a little slower to assimilate, however north and west of beantown are putting up luxury malls and housing faster than a yuppie can speed their bmw to starbucks....burlington is building another upscale mall with overpriced shops as is the Natick/framinham area....good luck finding a townhouse for much under $400K in a nice neighborhood...I grew up in MA and the whole attitude of the state seems to be changing, used to be a good amount of working class and regular joes here but now doesn't seem to be the case...at least not as much, and the shopping and housing scene seems to be a great indicator of that IMHO.
Here in MA if you want to actually pay a mortgage and not rent and drive a mediocre car both you and your spouse need to work so long as you don't want a two hour commute each way...throw in child care and other cost of living expenses and your lucky if you're not in the red..our baby on the way will be the most important thing in our lives and we cannot afford to not have both of us working...sucks but cost of living here is just too great...and it has nothing to do with nice cars, bigger houses or finer things...
Nice, so basically your solution is that I move to somewhere that is more reasonable from a cost standpoint...sorry but no dice, if I want to continue working for my company this is where I have to be...plus the cost of relocation along with finding a new job is highly prohibitive if not restrictive...
Sorry but your argument is weak charrison...try again.
A report from the Federal Reserve? OMG that's so fvcken rich.
The same Federal Reserve that is neither Federal nor reserve?
The same Federal Reserve that discontinued the M3 chart? Now they can print trillions more bux making your existing debt-based dollars even more worthless.
The same Federal Reserve that uses fractional reserve lending - and money is made up out of nowhere?
The same Federal Reserve whose bankers get paid interest for this made up money, amounting to about 40% of your federal tax?
These are the very people who have put us in the fvckhole. Everything is fine, especially in Chernobyl.
"G. Edward Griffin exposes the most blatant scam of all history. It?s all here: the cause of wars, boom-bust cycles, inflation, depression, prosperity. It's just exactly what every American needs to know about the power of the central bank."
The same Federal Reserve that is neither Federal nor reserve?
The same Federal Reserve that discontinued the M3 chart? Now they can print trillions more bux making your existing debt-based dollars even more worthless.
The same Federal Reserve that uses fractional reserve lending - and money is made up out of nowhere?
The same Federal Reserve whose bankers get paid interest for this made up money, amounting to about 40% of your federal tax?
These are the very people who have put us in the fvckhole. Everything is fine, especially in Chernobyl.
"G. Edward Griffin exposes the most blatant scam of all history. It?s all here: the cause of wars, boom-bust cycles, inflation, depression, prosperity. It's just exactly what every American needs to know about the power of the central bank."
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
No, I didn't read it. I do however know something about health care and it's becoming increadingly expensive at an alarming rate. I don't know what you consider long term, but I plan on being around for quite a number of years. After the Boomers die off the rate of increase of health care costs may come down but again I don't think 40 years is short term. Between now and then, prices will skyrocket. They will have to just from a demographic standpoing.
I can say with certainty that costs of of buying prescription drugs has gone up sharply from just last fall for most insured people. The new Medicaid program helps many elderly, however this is price shifting, and someone pays for it.
Regarding housing costs:
It's all well and good to say that the increased cost of housing in 1997 was due to sq footage increases, but that is simply not the case since then. Look at the prices of existing housing since that time and you will find that is true.
I think that if housing, energy and health care were factored in to where we are TODAY, and what has happened to the median income in the time being, that 1997 was "the good old days."
I can say with certainty that costs of of buying prescription drugs has gone up sharply from just last fall for most insured people. The new Medicaid program helps many elderly, however this is price shifting, and someone pays for it.
Regarding housing costs:
It's all well and good to say that the increased cost of housing in 1997 was due to sq footage increases, but that is simply not the case since then. Look at the prices of existing housing since that time and you will find that is true.
I think that if housing, energy and health care were factored in to where we are TODAY, and what has happened to the median income in the time being, that 1997 was "the good old days."
BaliBabyDoc
Lifer
True dat!
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