The debate over these cartoons of Muhammad is ridiculous.

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: fidolahoya
Of those who say something about freedom of speech, have you ever try walking down the street and talk taboo words in front of group of people?

Of those who say something against freedom of speech, have you never violated anyone's beliefs or insulted anyone or disagreed with them?

Heh, maybe you need to lecture the mod about the freedom of speech so they will let everyone say anything.

I am sure that will make this forum a much nicer place.

It's a private forum. You would think that someone who spouts legalese all the time would realize that.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: fidolahoya

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: fidolahoya
Of those who say something about freedom of speech, have you ever try walking down the street and talk taboo words in front of group of people?

Of those who say something against freedom of speech, have you never violated anyone's beliefs or insulted anyone or disagreed with them?

I expect a rational answer from any of you because, when you talk about something, you should really know about it otherwise it is total crap.. personal opinion is welcome but you dont have to give comment like you are the only one who know about it..

anyway, i still believe that insulting other people is not good.. just like you curse your friend's mother.. it only incite a fight between the two.. yeah, of course you have the so-called freedom of speech but even so, you are being an ignorant when u ignore other people's feeling.. it may not be a rule, but every matured/educated/reasonable people should know about it..

No doubt about it, insulting other people is not good. But you have a certain range of freedom to do so. I certainly think that forcing bizarre religious beliefs onto others is not good though. Freedom of speech or action should not be restricted by religious blasphemy.

 

[DidlySquat]

Originally posted by: saahmed

Originally posted by: DidlySquat
Arabic humor website

http://www.kenanah.com/jokes/ar/

look at the cartoons in particular...... highly offensive to jews, americans, israelis - let's burn their embassies !

Do you even know how to read Arabic? I didnt go through the site much, but I looked at quite a few of the cartoons nd I really didnt see anything offensive at all. A few portrayals of Ariel Sharon, but in a decent manner. I cannot read Arabic, so I cant say for sure that nothing offensive is being said.

But, in any case, you have to realize that most comics are offensive to some people. But, this was just beyond that, it portrayed and ridiculed the Prophet Muhammad, the most honored and revered man in the history of Islam. He is holy to the Muslim people. I dont think I have seen many comics ridiculing Jesus, holy to the Christians, or Moses, holy to the Jews.

Of course there have been hundreds of comics that have offended Muslims. You didnt see riots after those were published. This is totally different, it is not just a simple offense.

I would like to note though that I totally condemn the violent actions of the minority of Muslims who are doing so.

Oh really you didn't see anything huh ? how about the one showing jewish survivors of nazi death camps being morphed into Nazis themselves ? Do you know what kind of shocking experience these people went thru during WWII and how insulting it is for them to be equated with Nazis which represent their worst nightmares to this day ? Sure, this is not about religion but different people have different priorities for different things - like some people are not that religious but they are highly explosive about their experience in the death camps.

btw, equating jews and israelis with Nazis is a common theme in arab media.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: fidolahoya
Of those who say something about freedom of speech, have you ever try walking down the street and talk taboo words in front of group of people?

Of those who say something against freedom of speech, have you never violated anyone's beliefs or insulted anyone or disagreed with them?

Heh, maybe you need to lecture the mod about the freedom of speech so they will let everyone say anything.

I am sure that will make this forum a much nicer place.

It's a private forum. You would think that someone who spouts legalese all the time would realize that.

Missing the point as always...., my question to you is not if they have the right to take freedom of speech away. My question to you is why do they do it? According to you guys, it is so wonderful and so great. Why not let it exist everywhere, including this forum?

 

[saahmed]

Originally posted by: DidlySquat

Originally posted by: saahmed

Originally posted by: DidlySquat
Arabic humor website

http://www.kenanah.com/jokes/ar/

look at the cartoons in particular...... highly offensive to jews, americans, israelis - let's burn their embassies !

Do you even know how to read Arabic? I didnt go through the site much, but I looked at quite a few of the cartoons nd I really didnt see anything offensive at all. A few portrayals of Ariel Sharon, but in a decent manner. I cannot read Arabic, so I cant say for sure that nothing offensive is being said.

But, in any case, you have to realize that most comics are offensive to some people. But, this was just beyond that, it portrayed and ridiculed the Prophet Muhammad, the most honored and revered man in the history of Islam. He is holy to the Muslim people. I dont think I have seen many comics ridiculing Jesus, holy to the Christians, or Moses, holy to the Jews.

Of course there have been hundreds of comics that have offended Muslims. You didnt see riots after those were published. This is totally different, it is not just a simple offense.

I would like to note though that I totally condemn the violent actions of the minority of Muslims who are doing so.

Oh really you didn't see anything huh ? how about the one showing jewish survivors of nazi death camps being morphed into Nazis themselves ? Do you know what kind of shocking experience these people went thru during WWII and how insulting it is for them to be equated with Nazis which represent their worst nightmares to this day ? Sure, this is not about religion but different people have different priorities for different things - like some people are not that religious but they are highly explosive about their experience in the death camps.

btw, equating jews and israelis with Nazis is a common theme in arab media.

Okay, well I didnt see that cartoon. And, I agree with you on that, it is highly offensive. And I guess the only reason they arent outraged is maybe that it just wasnt widely published.

But, how do you say your second point. Do you live in the Arab world? I hear that kind of stuff all of the time, that all the Arab media talks about terrorism and all that crap. When I went to Pakistan a couple years ago, the media was just like our CNN, nothing out of the ordinary or terrorism promotion. I have relatives in the Middle East who also say that their media does not promote terrorism, but reports it as news and often condemns it. Al-Jazeera is just the CNN of the middle east. There was a Jewish man on the Colbert Report a few days ago who joined Al-Jazeera recently saying that he believed it was the best new in the world. It does not promote terrorism. The only reason they are the first to air Bin Laden tapes is because that is the mainstream news there, and that is the most effective way for him to get out his word.

 

[Alaa]

Originally posted by: kush

Originally posted by: Alaa

Meuge tell me who started in 67? it was our land ok but we are still convinced it is! we are convinced it should come back sooner or later, and i dont mean u as civilian am talking about ppl in charge and the religious ones who insulted muslims be4, i can remember this it happened a few years back..

Oh I absolutely love this! Thanks for reminding me to make two more important points.

Israel kicked your inbred sand-monkey asses in only 6 days. They had no help from anyone - including the US. Meanwhile, Soviet Union supplied tons of weapons and ammo to the arab states. And still you got your asses handed to ya! Go Israel! Chosen people and all that gets proven time and time again. If I wasn't such an atheist, I'd be all about the Judaism!!

---

Bigotry like that is not welcome on our forums. YOUR inbred monkey ass is banned for at least two months. I will take the time to check your other posts. If I find similar garbage, you will not be coming back.

AnandTech Moderator

Second, it proves that the militant arab faction cannot fight in an organized manner, nor can they do anything in an organized matter for that matter.

(by the way, yes, you cousin-marrying mobsters started it )

israel got much help from US, do u want to tell me that they became that strong in 17 years oh thats rediculous..and now the freedom of speech= ban! thats funny! am telling u we were not good in the past 100 years for reasons u dont have to know, Soviet didnt help that much..bad weapons! i also dnt remember israel giving it happily back it was a war in 73! they dream to have a land fron the east of nile to iraq!

 

[DidlySquat]

No I don't live there but luckily the anti-defamation league keeps track of anti-semitic publishings around the world. Here's their latest report on arab media:

http://www.adl.org/main_Arab_World/asam_july_dec_intro_2005.htm

And btw, Israeli do know about these cartoons in arab media, it's just that there is no point to protest it because it won't change a thing. Even goverment newspapers publish this stuff, for example the palestinian authority constantly broadcast incitements on their official radio channel. The israeil goverment does officially protest occasionally when this stuff appears in media sponsored by supposedly friendly governements.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Alaa

Originally posted by: kush

Originally posted by: Alaa

Meuge tell me who started in 67? it was our land ok but we are still convinced it is! we are convinced it should come back sooner or later, and i dont mean u as civilian am talking about ppl in charge and the religious ones who insulted muslims be4, i can remember this it happened a few years back..

Oh I absolutely love this! Thanks for reminding me to make two more important points.

Israel kicked your inbred sand-monkey asses in only 6 days. They had no help from anyone - including the US. Meanwhile, Soviet Union supplied tons of weapons and ammo to the arab states. And still you got your asses handed to ya! Go Israel! Chosen people and all that gets proven time and time again. If I wasn't such an atheist, I'd be all about the Judaism!!

---

Bigotry like that is not welcome on our forums. YOUR inbred monkey ass is banned for at least two months. I will take the time to check your other posts. If I find similar garbage, you will not be coming back.

AnandTech Moderator

Second, it proves that the militant arab faction cannot fight in an organized manner, nor can they do anything in an organized matter for that matter.

(by the way, yes, you cousin-marrying mobsters started it )

i also dnt remember israel giving it happily back it was a war in 73! they dream to have a land fron the east of nile to iraq!

You seem very content in this dream of yours, so I will cease communicating with you. It is clear to me that you are determined to believe what you believe regardless of whether it's true or not.

Are you that dumb that you won't question your state's propaganda even for a moment?! Or is it just simpler to blame all your problems on a little country at your border, which you threaten with total annihilation.

If you are content in this, then you're nothing but an obstacle to peace, and I have nothing further to say to you.

 

[The Linuxator]

Originally posted by: DidlySquat
No I don't live there but luckily the anti-defamation league keeps track of anti-semitic publishings around the world. Here's their latest report on arab media:

http://www.adl.org/main_Arab_World/asam_july_dec_intro_2005.htm

And btw, Israeli do know about these cartoons in arab media, it's just that there is no point to protest it because it won't change a thing. Even goverment newspapers publish this stuff, for example the palestinian authority constantly broadcast incitements on their official radio channel. The israeil goverment does officially protest occasionally when this stuff appears in media sponsored by supposedly friendly governements.

The vast majority of the cartoons in the Arab papers are anti-Israeli, FYI it's possible to be anti-Israeli and not be anti-semetic look it up with your friends in the ADL , I am yet to see just one cartoon depecting Moses, now why is that ?

 

[Aimster]

These threads are stupid.

And

so are the people fueling the fire for the debates.

There are like 5-10 topics on this already.

Sum it up:

Bigot/Redneck vs. Muslim
Fanatical Christian vs Fanatical Muslim
Muslim vs Fanatical Muslim
I hate Bush guy vs I hate Bush too but I love to argue for the sake of argueing
Everything is the U.S's fault guy
Muslims are evil guy
Islam is the religion of peace and I have to prove it guy

 

[DidlySquat]

Newsflash from the enlightened muslim world: Iranian newspaper "Tehran Mashari" anounced today a contest for cartoons about the holocaust. It asked readers to submit their cartoons and it will anounce and publish 12 of them as winners. They claim to do that to show they support freedom of speech just as much as the europeans..... THIS IS NOT A JOKE BUT REAL NEWS FROM THE MUSLIM WORLD.

In response to the news, holocaust survivor support organizations pointed out that Iranina media already insults survivors and their descendents routinely, and called the situation "sad".

Muslims just hit another home run !!!

 

[Alaa]

Originally posted by: DidlySquat

Originally posted by: slash196

Believe it or not, I believe that. I'm just pissed at all the hypocrite Christians with their fake indignance at this most recent offense that anyone with a brain would've predicted. I'm saying you can't insult the religion 1.2 billion people and expect to get away with it.

really ? the religion of 1.2 billion people has been insulted HUNDREDS OF TIMES in this thread alone, in far worse ways than in the cartoons. And guess what ? they got away with it !!!!

grow up, religions are constantly "insulted" by people that don't believe in them (and sometimes by people that do). People will always get insulted by something, but free speech guarantees everyone's right to express their opinion. You recourse (in a free progressive society) is to excersize your free speech and give your counter opinion.

when u insult the religion its because u hate it and u dont want to see anyone who is believing in it! and thts somehow normal from the west now..but the prophet is in the religion not the religion itself, so when u go so deeply like this we all get angry, we love our prophet more than our selves..

Originally posted by: techster82
How can you respect any religion that believes that non-believers, or infedels, should be killed. I want to order the shirt from tshirthell.com that has a picture of a guy sitting on a toilet and says, "The Koran, now in Two Ply."

I have lost all respect for the Muslim Religion. I consider a percentage of them Savage Animals. Even many of those living here in the states have a deep hatred for Christians. They shield it publically and spit on us when our back is turned. Remember, white or black christian males weren't the ones who blew up the world trade center, or bombed the marine baracks in beirut, or kidnapped hostages at the olympic games. I applaud us going to Iraq and Afghanistan and killing every armed Muslim man that moves. I am fed up and disgusted with these people. I am sick at the thought of American lives that have been lost at their hands. The day will come when they will get what is coming and all Mohammad will do is run and hide.

we dont want to kill anyone we just wanted a "sorry" thts all, not kill, and the ppl ur talking about are NOT muslims, ppl who kill innocents are not muslims..i hope u understand that, they are only caused by US support to israel, dont u know that US is the country that made ben laden a few years back? that was to make him attack russia at that time..

Originally posted by: Meuge
You seem very content in this dream of yours, so I will cease communicating with you. It is clear to me that you are determined to believe what you believe regardless of whether it's true or not.

i dont believe in what i believe only, but it was a war really in 73 wuts wrong with that its a national holiday here so how can i deny that?!

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Missing the point as always...., my question to you is not if they have the right to take freedom of speech away. My question to you is why do they do it? According to you guys, it is so wonderful and so great. Why not let it exist everywhere, including this forum?

Missing the point as always. I'm surprised that after so many posts from so many people educating you on the topic that you're still ignorant of the differences.

 

[Alaa]

Originally posted by: DidlySquat
Newsflash from the enlightened muslim world: Iranian newspaper "Tehran Mashari" anounced today a contest for cartoons about the holocaust. It asked readers to submit their cartoons and it will anounce and publish 12 of them as winners. They claim to do that to show they support freedom of speech just as much as the europeans..... THIS IS NOT A JOKE BUT REAL NEWS FROM THE MUSLIM WORLD.

In response to the news, holocaust survivor support organizations pointed out that Iranina media already insults survivors and their descendents routinely, and called the situation "sad".

Muslims just hit another home run !!!

u r always offending and u dont want us to protest and u keep showing the cartoons everytime so dont comment on this and keep ur mouth shut..this is the freedom u want then they are giving it to u..

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Alaa

when u insult the religion its because u hate it and u dont want to see anyone who is believing in it! and thts somehow normal from the west now..but the prophet is in the religion not the religion itself, so when u go so deeply like this we all get angry, we love our prophet more than our selves..

You don't have to hate a religion to insult or mock it at times.

Sorry, you may love the prophet but others don't.

 

[The Linuxator]

Originally posted by: Alaa

Originally posted by: DidlySquat
Newsflash from the enlightened muslim world: Iranian newspaper "Tehran Mashari" anounced today a contest for cartoons about the holocaust. It asked readers to submit their cartoons and it will anounce and publish 12 of them as winners. They claim to do that to show they support freedom of speech just as much as the europeans..... THIS IS NOT A JOKE BUT REAL NEWS FROM THE MUSLIM WORLD.

In response to the news, holocaust survivor support organizations pointed out that Iranina media already insults survivors and their descendents routinely, and called the situation "sad".

Muslims just hit another home run !!!

You are always offending others and you dont want us to protest and you keep showing the cartoons almost everytime you post, so dont comment on this and keep your mouth shut..if freedom of speech is what people want then here comes...

As he said (but with fixed grammer )

 

[DidlySquat]

Just because you asked, here are the cartoons once again

http://www.pixelsboard.com/free/SIGAL/cartoon1.jpg

no thanks, I will not keep my mouth shut

 

[Alaa]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Alaa

when u insult the religion its because u hate it and u dont want to see anyone who is believing in it! and thts somehow normal from the west now..but the prophet is in the religion not the religion itself, so when u go so deeply like this we all get angry, we love our prophet more than our selves..

You don't have to hate a religion to insult or mock it at times.

Sorry, you may love the prophet but others don't.

so u have to respect me, in order to keep things goin between us

 

[Alaa]

Originally posted by: The Linuxator

Originally posted by: Alaa

Originally posted by: DidlySquat
Newsflash from the enlightened muslim world: Iranian newspaper "Tehran Mashari" anounced today a contest for cartoons about the holocaust. It asked readers to submit their cartoons and it will anounce and publish 12 of them as winners. They claim to do that to show they support freedom of speech just as much as the europeans..... THIS IS NOT A JOKE BUT REAL NEWS FROM THE MUSLIM WORLD.

In response to the news, holocaust survivor support organizations pointed out that Iranina media already insults survivors and their descendents routinely, and called the situation "sad".

Muslims just hit another home run !!!

You are always offending others and you dont want us to protest and you keep showing the cartoons almost everytime you post, so dont comment on this and keep your mouth shut..if freedom of speech is what people want then here comes...

As he said (but with fixed grammer )

ok fix it

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Alaa

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Alaa

when u insult the religion its because u hate it and u dont want to see anyone who is believing in it! and thts somehow normal from the west now..but the prophet is in the religion not the religion itself, so when u go so deeply like this we all get angry, we love our prophet more than our selves..

You don't have to hate a religion to insult or mock it at times.

Sorry, you may love the prophet but others don't.

so u have to respect me, in order to keep things goin between us

Sure, to a certain extent. But, I will not bow down to your irrational beliefs if that is what you demand for me to respect you.

Are you going to respect a Hindu and not eat beef? Are you going to respect Hindus, Jains, Buddhists, vegeterians, etc. and not eat meat? Are you going to respect a homosexual and change offensive religious scripture?

 

[Alaa]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Alaa

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Alaa

when u insult the religion its because u hate it and u dont want to see anyone who is believing in it! and thts somehow normal from the west now..but the prophet is in the religion not the religion itself, so when u go so deeply like this we all get angry, we love our prophet more than our selves..

You don't have to hate a religion to insult or mock it at times.

Sorry, you may love the prophet but others don't.

so u have to respect me, in order to keep things goin between us

Sure, to a certain extent. But, I will not bow down to your irrational beliefs if that is what you demand for me to respect you.

Are you going to respect a Hindu and not eat beef? Are you going to respect Hindus, Jains, Buddhists, vegeterians, etc. and not eat meat? Are you going to respect a homosexual and change offensive religious scripture?

luk as long the others beliefs donot show up against my religion so it ok i have nothing to do with their religion am only dealing with them not the religion...in quran it says something like this "you have your religion and i have mine"

 

[saahmed]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Alaa

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Alaa

when u insult the religion its because u hate it and u dont want to see anyone who is believing in it! and thts somehow normal from the west now..but the prophet is in the religion not the religion itself, so when u go so deeply like this we all get angry, we love our prophet more than our selves..

You don't have to hate a religion to insult or mock it at times.

Sorry, you may love the prophet but others don't.

so u have to respect me, in order to keep things goin between us

Sure, to a certain extent. But, I will not bow down to your irrational beliefs if that is what you demand for me to respect you.

Are you going to respect a Hindu and not eat beef? Are you going to respect Hindus, Jains, Buddhists, vegeterians, etc. and not eat meat? Are you going to respect a homosexual and change offensive religious scripture?

Where does this come from? bowing down to our irrational beliefs? If you look at Islamic beliefs and then the Christian and Jewish beliefs closely they are very similar. I dont recall asking people to bow down to any beliefs, though I dont think any of them are irrational. I simply ask that people respect me and my beliefs. But, I dont think you are understanding the term "respect". It does not mean that you have to follow those beliefs, just allow a person to follow their own beliefs.

 

[saahmed]

Originally posted by: DidlySquat
Newsflash from the enlightened muslim world: Iranian newspaper "Tehran Mashari" anounced today a contest for cartoons about the holocaust. It asked readers to submit their cartoons and it will anounce and publish 12 of them as winners. They claim to do that to show they support freedom of speech just as much as the europeans..... THIS IS NOT A JOKE BUT REAL NEWS FROM THE MUSLIM WORLD.

In response to the news, holocaust survivor support organizations pointed out that Iranina media already insults survivors and their descendents routinely, and called the situation "sad".

Muslims just hit another home run !!!

Wow. This is unbelievable. I understand that they are kind of trying to prove a point. But it really does not help the situation at all, it only makes matters worse. Once again, a few people giving the whole Muslim world a bad rap.

EDIT: Also what do you mean by: Muslims just hit another home run!?
You generalize it too much.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Alaa

luk as long the others beliefs donot show up against my religion so it ok i have nothing to do with their religion am only dealing with them not the religion...i quran it says something like this "you have your religion and i have mine"

So when peoples' beliefs violate your religion (such as drawing Mo) it's bad, but when your beliefs violate the beliefs of others (eating meat) then it's ok?

You truly need to follow the "you have your religion and i have mine" routine.

 

[The Linuxator]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Alaa

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Alaa

when u insult the religion its because u hate it and u dont want to see anyone who is believing in it! and thts somehow normal from the west now..but the prophet is in the religion not the religion itself, so when u go so deeply like this we all get angry, we love our prophet more than our selves..

You don't have to hate a religion to insult or mock it at times.

Sorry, you may love the prophet but others don't.

so u have to respect me, in order to keep things goin between us

Sure, to a certain extent. But, I will not bow down to your irrational beliefs if that is what you demand for me to respect you.

Are you going to respect a Hindu and not eat beef? Are you going to respect Hindus, Jains, Buddhists, vegeterians, etc. and not eat meat? Are you going to respect a homosexual and change offensive religious scripture?

Uh... but I know what I will never do is go straight up to Hindu's face and take a big ass bite of my TRIPLE whopper and tell him / her "hmmm that was one hell of a whopper b!tch"!

Even in my everyday life, I usually try as much as possible to not have any beef lying around the kitchen / table when my Hindu friends from school / work comeover and visit, it's called respect, you guys should try it someday it's true it's my house, I could have had some shish kaboobs that sunday and shawarmas all over the place but hey it's not me.
And things go the other way around with my friends, they avoid having any alcohol / pork around when I am invited, it isn't a big deal to me if they eat pork / drink alcohol, I am not the one who is doing it, but again it really shows to the other person that you respect him / her when you are willing to hold back on some stuff that won't kill you if you don't do them for once, you know ? I for surewouldn't be offended if my friends invited me over, and they were drinking beer or whatever, but I am sure I would be offended if they start drinking beer the same way I described to you how these caricatures would compare to a Muslim eating a TRIPLE whopper right up a Hindu's face like in the example above.