The Dark Side (Starting tonight on PBS Frontline)

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: flawlssdistortn
Yes, shame on them for not taking a stand. But how could they when they were fed false information?

<insert "we were duped" backup plan>

Just as much was known about the evidence back then as now.

Why didn't they ask for better proof instead of just voting first, asking questions later?

You know perfectly well why. Liberals have been called cowards and traitors by the swine of the right for so long they have lost all self respect and courage and have become the 'just kill um' wannabes too. They have been beaten and beaten in election after election by the fear-mongering assholes on the right that manipulate the American public by fear. The lying scum-ball ****** that pass for conservatives have turned the whole country into a cesspool of terrified reactionary bigots.

 

[GrGr]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: flawlssdistortn

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Too bad Powell and Tennent didn't have the balls to continue to stand up to Cheney and Rummy, we might not have gotten into this mistake in Iraq.

Yeah, Tennent ended up backing the war, convincing Powell that the facts were correct, and then ate all the sh!t once it was discovered that the info was bad. Cheney got his war, increased Bush's (his) executive powers, and knocked Tennent out of the game. I would not be surprised if Cheney banged Mrs Tennent and Powell on top of all that. Brilliant. So much for checks and balances. But shocking that all it takes is the defeat of two or three key members in the government to start a war.

Well, it also took a majority vote by the house and senate. Just a minor detail.

An unconstitutional legalistic figleaf to hide the illegality of the war. It only highlights the break down in the system of checks and balances intended by the founding fathers.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: Thump553

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Bowfinger
I believe you're missing the whole point Gomer. How is it partisan to tell the truth?

the "truth" according to whom, however? you? Conjie? that is the point!

these shows are nothing more than the truth according to PBS, and that is where the problem lies.

Truth is a matter of perspective, and in this case, the documentaries were written, shot, produced, and broadcast from a very leftist perspective which is critical to the current administration and all things Bush. I'm sure that for every "expert" who spoke on camera, you could find one who will/would say the complete opposite.

Hence the entire reason that such programming is innappropriate for public broadcasting paid for with our tax dollars. How would you feel if PBS started broadcasting Pro-Bush propoganda night after night? My bet is that you'd wig out, cry foul, and campaign to have PBS shut down. am I right?

I bet I am.

From what the local newspaper's review said, everything in this documentary is attributable to direct quotations, including the title reference to the Dark Side-words straight out of Cheney's mouth and quoted in context.

There is a substantial difference between this type of news documentary and the typical unfounded opinion/puff piece/propoganda that runs almost constantly on Fox News.

If PBS was a government propoganda outlet, it should be shut down. If exposing dirty secrets makes our government uncomfortable, it should be praised. Obedience is not synonymous with patriotism in the USA, the last I knew.

The quote refers to an interview with Cheney about the War on Terror. He is referring to how the war will have to be fought.

 

[dahunan]

Did PaleHorse EVER YET COMMENT ON THE SHOW ITSELF 😕

Did he watch the show about abu-ghraib where they tortured people to death and shoved batons in their rectums?

 

[Darkhawk28]

Statement: 1 + 1 = 2

Source:

CBS: Bah, Dan Rather, liberal
NBC: Bah, liberal
ABC: Bah, liberal
MSNBC: Bah, Computer-geek liberal
CNN: Bah, communists, Ted Turner (although Turner hasn't had an ounce of control in over 10 years)
PBS: Bah, liberal
NPR: Bah, National Proletariat Radio... liberal
NYT: Bah, liberal (who cares that they withheld earthshaking news stories until a year after an election to help Bush)
WP: Liberal

Fox: "1 + 1 = 2? Is that the sign of a oncoming socialist/leftist movement? Why do they hate America?"

 

[Moonbeam]

We have an interesting problem with the media today. The truth, generally speaking, is upsetting to most people if it contains any hint of guilt. But upset people don't buy. Whateya gonna do if television is privately owned and sponsored. Who can make a buck off advertising if real news gets people upset by telling them they need to act. The answer, of course, is to turn news into the kind of fun that tells you your proper course is to buy a convertible or new dress.

Then, if you fund real news with the taxpayer's dollar, people, some at least, will get pissed off at the thought that somebody used their money to upset them. This opens up a whole new venue for commercial 'news'. We get people like Limpbrow telling us we should be upset at THEN and not OURSELVES, that people who upset us are evil. In this way, year by year, we are taught more and more to hate the truth and to close our minds to any news that even remotely says there's something wrong with us. In this way we race to become the most hated people in the world, the deaf dumb blind assholes with all the military strength.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: dahunan
Did PaleHorse EVER YET COMMENT ON THE SHOW ITSELF 😕

Did he watch the show about abu-ghraib where they tortured people to death and shoved batons in their rectums?

Nope, just continuing to distract.

Typical m.o. of the right-wing nutjobs too prevalent today.


BTW, there's a discussion forum on that site for this show and the comments against it are all brain-dead bushbots repeating talking points about a liberal bias in the media blah blah blah. Nothing, NOTHING, refuting anything in the show.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: flawlssdistortn
Yes, shame on them for not taking a stand. But how could they when they were fed false information?

<insert "we were duped" backup plan>

Just as much was known about the evidence back then as now.

Why didn't they ask for better proof instead of just voting first, asking questions later?

You know perfectly well why. Liberals have been called cowards and traitors by the swine of the right for so long they have lost all self respect and courage and have become the 'just kill um' wannabes too. They have been beaten and beaten in election after election by the fear-mongering assholes on the right that manipulate the American public by fear. The lying scum-ball ****** that pass for conservatives have turned the whole country into a cesspool of terrified reactionary bigots.

LOL I know perfectly well why? Nope, no "victim mentality" there. Why, how could the poor little liberals* ever stand up for themselves!! :roll: What a joke.

No, the liberals* basically have modeled a "which way is political wind blowing" technique, evidenced by the "let's go to war" bandwagon jump, and now the "we were duped" bandwagon #2 jump.

Principles are principles, courage is courage, self-respect is self-respect. They aren't lost by people calling you names or by losing elections. That's the cowardly way out, blaming others for your own failings.


*your word usage, not mine.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: flawlssdistortn
Yes, shame on them for not taking a stand. But how could they when they were fed false information?

<insert "we were duped" backup plan>

Just as much was known about the evidence back then as now.

Why didn't they ask for better proof instead of just voting first, asking questions later?

You know perfectly well why. Liberals have been called cowards and traitors by the swine of the right for so long they have lost all self respect and courage and have become the 'just kill um' wannabes too. They have been beaten and beaten in election after election by the fear-mongering assholes on the right that manipulate the American public by fear. The lying scum-ball ****** that pass for conservatives have turned the whole country into a cesspool of terrified reactionary bigots.

LOL I know perfectly well why? Nope, no "victim mentality" there. Why, how could the poor little liberals* ever stand up for themselves!! :roll: What a joke.

No, the liberals* basically have modeled a "which way is political wind blowing" technique, evidenced by the "let's go to war" bandwagon jump, and now the "we were duped" bandwagon #2 jump.

Principles are principles, courage is courage, self-respect is self-respect. They aren't lost by people calling you names or by losing elections. That's the cowardly way out, blaming others for your own failings.


*your word usage, not mine.

The only failing that a minority of Democrats should recognize is actually believing anything that Bush/Republicans/conservatives say. Their trust was naive and misguided but does not for one ioda give clearing to the liars/murderers/instigators/cult followers that continue to want this occupation of Iraq to satisfy their insatiable desire to kill others and see other be killed. The rabid Republican right is addicted to war and death and have been for quite a while now. The illegal war in Iraq and the following illegal occupation is the culmination of this desire that built up after GHWB left Iraq back in '91.

Frankly, I would diagnose it as massive Munchausen By Proxy Syndrome.

 

[AAjax]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: palehorse74
PBS? biased leftwing crapola?!?! nahhhhh... no way, not them!

bah.

Every penny of our tax dollars that is wasted on this leftist shinola is a roundhouse kick in the balls.

PBS and NPR should be privatized. period.

Yeah, but it doesn't even come close to balancing out the various RIGHT wing activities we support with huge sums of public money...like your job, for example 😉

Hmm, well perhaps in time you will both see it as I do, dems and repubs are the same thing. Different bullet points, same agenda. Just see both activities as the left and right hand of the same bully who is stealing you lunch money.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
PBS? biased leftwing crapola?!?! nahhhhh... no way, not them!

bah.

Every penny of our tax dollars that is wasted on this leftist shinola is a roundhouse kick in the balls.

PBS and NPR should be privatized. period.

The entire program was a well documented crash course on the statements and actions of those who made the decisions that took us into this mess. Much of it was a rapid fire summary of footage and quotes we've been watching and discussing, spread over the past few years crammed into an hour and a half, but it did a great job of bringing home the obvious conclusions.

As long as you're going to ignore and belittle such documentation, just because it happens to conflict with your personal political agenda, your opinions are confirmed to be worthless.

At least, you still have your gluteal cheeks too keep your ears warm. :Q

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: flawlssdistortn
Yes, shame on them for not taking a stand. But how could they when they were fed false information?

<insert "we were duped" backup plan>

Just as much was known about the evidence back then as now.

Why didn't they ask for better proof instead of just voting first, asking questions later?

You know perfectly well why. Liberals have been called cowards and traitors by the swine of the right for so long they have lost all self respect and courage and have become the 'just kill um' wannabes too. They have been beaten and beaten in election after election by the fear-mongering assholes on the right that manipulate the American public by fear. The lying scum-ball ****** that pass for conservatives have turned the whole country into a cesspool of terrified reactionary bigots.

LOL I know perfectly well why? Nope, no "victim mentality" there. Why, how could the poor little liberals* ever stand up for themselves!! :roll: What a joke.

No, the liberals* basically have modeled a "which way is political wind blowing" technique, evidenced by the "let's go to war" bandwagon jump, and now the "we were duped" bandwagon #2 jump.

Principles are principles, courage is courage, self-respect is self-respect. They aren't lost by people calling you names or by losing elections. That's the cowardly way out, blaming others for your own failings.


*your word usage, not mine.

What the hell is the matter with you? Those filthy spineless worm Democrats make me puck. It's not a victim mentality to point to the greater scum who created them via manipulation of fear. We seek understanding when we study cause and effect, not guilt. That is what you were feeling and externalizes as coming from me. That Republican scum manipulates Democratic rationality in avoiding military use to make it look like weakness helped us get into the psychological state where war became inevitable. That trait, the willingness to mightily harm the nation to win an election is what makes Republicans the worst form of swine. Because it works you make your opposition play the game. The Republican party is a complete and total disaster.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: GrGr

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: flawlssdistortn

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Too bad Powell and Tennent didn't have the balls to continue to stand up to Cheney and Rummy, we might not have gotten into this mistake in Iraq.

Yeah, Tennent ended up backing the war, convincing Powell that the facts were correct, and then ate all the sh!t once it was discovered that the info was bad. Cheney got his war, increased Bush's (his) executive powers, and knocked Tennent out of the game. I would not be surprised if Cheney banged Mrs Tennent and Powell on top of all that. Brilliant. So much for checks and balances. But shocking that all it takes is the defeat of two or three key members in the government to start a war.

Well, it also took a majority vote by the house and senate. Just a minor detail.

An unconstitutional legalistic figleaf to hide the illegality of the war.

for u.

would u like fries with that super-sized order of bullsh1t?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: dahunan
Did PaleHorse EVER YET COMMENT ON THE SHOW ITSELF 😕

Did he watch the show about abu-ghraib where they tortured people to death and shoved batons in their rectums?

1.) who tortured people to death at Abu G?
2.) who shoved batons up their rectums at Abu G?

Please answer both of those questions, with specifics.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
for u. that jst might be the most blatant spillage of bullsh*t that I've sever seen around here.. and that says alot!

You must be like one of those actors who never watches his own shows.


(BTW, did you ever watch this documentary, or is this just more duhversionary flinging chaff from your flaming tail as I mentioned earlier?)

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: palehorse74
for u. that jst might be the most blatant spillage of bullsh*t that I've sever seen around here.. and that says alot!

You must be like one of those actors who never watches his own shows.


(BTW, did you ever watch this documentary, or is this just more duhversionary flinging chaff from your flaming tail as I mentioned earlier?)

as i've said over a dozen times, the actual poltical content of said show is besides the point. I do not want ANY political garbage on public TV and radio! I don't care if the show describes Bush as the savior of all mankind, let me repeat this for the obviously deaf dumb and blind: I DONT WANT ANY POLITIKING ON PUBLIC TV/RADIO PAID FOR WITH MY MONEY!

wtf!? how many times do I have to say that before it sinks in?!

 

[FrancesBeansRevenge]

So, by your rules, public TV can't actually address even the facts of ANY major event/situation/issue whether domestic or foreign because of the possible political implications (whether they be positive or negative)?

So, no publicly funded news sources eh? We must rely on major corporations with business interests to protect for the entirety of our info?

No thanks.

If you believe this facts presented in this particular doco to be wrong please feel free to list the points and your evidence... I am willing to listen.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: palehorse74
for u. that jst might be the most blatant spillage of bullsh*t that I've sever seen around here.. and that says alot!

You must be like one of those actors who never watches his own shows.


(BTW, did you ever watch this documentary, or is this just more duhversionary flinging chaff from your flaming tail as I mentioned earlier?)

as i've said over a dozen times, the actual poltical content of said show is besides the point. I do not want ANY political garbage on public TV and radio! I don't care if the show describes Bush as the savior of all mankind, let me repeat this for the obviously deaf dumb and blind: I DONT WANT ANY POLITIKING ON PUBLIC TV/RADIO PAID FOR WITH MY MONEY!

wtf!? how many times do I have to say that before it sinks in?!

I got your evasion the first time you floated it, thank you very much. For the sake of argument, however, let's go with your story. In essence, you're acknowledging your participation in this thread is blatant trolling, contributing nothing re. the OP and disrupting attempts at on-topic discussion. If you want to pontificate on the evils of presenting factual information on public television, kindly start your own thread. I can explain the process if it's beyond you. Otherwise, why don't you watch this excellent, informative documentary -- with an open mind, of course -- and then get back to us. Toodles.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: palehorse74
for u. that jst might be the most blatant spillage of bullsh*t that I've sever seen around here.. and that says alot!

You must be like one of those actors who never watches his own shows.


(BTW, did you ever watch this documentary, or is this just more duhversionary flinging chaff from your flaming tail as I mentioned earlier?)

as i've said over a dozen times, the actual poltical content of said show is besides the point. I do not want ANY political garbage on public TV and radio! I don't care if the show describes Bush as the savior of all mankind, let me repeat this for the obviously deaf dumb and blind: I DONT WANT ANY POLITIKING ON PUBLIC TV/RADIO PAID FOR WITH MY MONEY!

wtf!? how many times do I have to say that before it sinks in?!

I got your evasion the first time you floated it, thank you very much. For the sake of argument, however, let's go with your story. In essence, you're acknowledging your participation in this thread is blatant trolling, contributing nothing re. the OP and disrupting attempts at on-topic discussion. If you want to pontificate on the evils of presenting factual information on public television, kindly start your own thread. I can explain the process if it's beyond you. Otherwise, why don't you watch this excellent, informative documentary -- with an open mind, of course -- and then get back to us. Toodles.

do i have to email you a detailed list of instructions on how and where to find "the point"?

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: palehorse74
how many of you "open-minded" enlightened trolls watched both Fahrenheit 911 and FahrenHype 911?

just curious?

I've seen both. 😱

I've seen both, I'm left wing, far far left, and I think that Moore is a nutjob who twists facts around. There are some oddities that make you go hmm, but few people have the ability to look at a source, tone it down and actually gather what is factual. Or do there own research to find out.

 

[conjur]

Back ON TOPIC (that paletroll and his ilk keep avoiding)


Video available online today after 5pm
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/darkside/

 

[Thump553]

Originally posted by: conjur
Back ON TOPIC (that paletroll and his ilk keep avoiding)


Video available online today after 5pm
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/darkside/

Thanks for the post. It still hasn't viewed locally yet.

 

[AnandTech Moderator]

We have people here that seemed intent on hi-jacking this thread.

Any perceived attempts after the 5 minute mark will be dealt with accordingly

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: GrGr
An unconstitutional legalistic figleaf to hide the illegality of the war.

for u.

would u like fries with that super-sized order of bullsh1t?

Says the expert on his regular meal. You still haven't said whether YOU watched the program. What's more important is, you can't provide one link to refute any point made in the show.

Until you can, the only supe-sized helping of bullsh1t (your term) is yours to munch. Here... Have some more...

 

[Todd33]

So back on topic *cough*trollhorse*cough*, the show was excellent. Nothing was extremely new, but it was a summary of what people have been saying and writing about for years. It had interviews from all the inside players, minus the cowardly VP. Anyone who watched this and does not worry about a secretive power hungry administration has blinders on. Some of the people involved were incompetent (Tenet), some were just pure evil and know exactly what they are doing.

It's amazing that some people (Franks, Powell, Tenet) had principles early on and then folded under pressure before Iraq. What were they offered and or threatened with?