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The Dalai Lama

TalonStrike

Senior member
I just watched a documentary on this guy yesterday. He doesn't seem that great. He's like a Gandhi-wannabe. He keeps pushing for non-violent resistance, but what has that gotten him? Tibet completely taken over and destroyed by China. The difference between Gandhi and the Dalai Lama is that Gandhi succeeded. This guy is just a big failure. Non-violent resistance can't work in a situation like Tibet and China. If he hadn't pushed for Tibet's independence in the first place, the Chinese would have never massacred them the way they did. Didn't he realize that pushing for Tibet's independence would lead to war? How dumb do you have to be to push for independence when you have absolutely no military force whatsoever? What the hell did he think was going to happen? He always talks about non-violence, yet his incompetence led to a great deal of violence against his own people.
 
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Are you serious?
Didn't Ghandi push for independence without an army?

Yes, that's what I'm saying. It's stupid. He should have expected a violent reaction from China if he's going to push for independence. Of course the Chinese are going to retaliate and destroy Tibet in that situation.
 
In the matter of comparison with Gandhi, well.... lets just say.... if China gets into WW3 and gets its ass whopped by some country and at that point Tiber pushed really really hard for independence, one parallel group supports and fights with China's enemy and attacks China, China doesn't have any more resources to rule Tibet... well... Dalai Lama might get his independence too
 
I just watched a documentary on this guy yesterday. He doesn't seem that great. He's like a Gandhi-wannabe. He keeps pushing for non-violent resistance, but what has that gotten him? Tibet completely taken over and destroyed by China. The difference between Gandhi and the Dalai Lama is that Gandhi succeeded. This guy is just a big failure. Non-violent resistance can't work in a situation like Tibet and China. If he hadn't pushed for Tibet's independence in the first place, the Chinese would have never massacred them the way they did. Didn't he realize that pushing for Tibet's independence would lead to war? How dumb do you have to be to push for independence when you have absolutely no military force whatsoever? What the hell did he think was going to happen? He always talks about non-violence, yet his incompetence lead to a great deal of violence against his own people.


Are you suggesting that violent protest against China would have been better?

Or that they should just of sucked it up and done nothing at all?
 
So, I tell them I'm a pro jock, and who do you think they give me? The Dalai Lama, himself. Twelfth son of the Lama. The flowing robes, the grace, bald... striking. So, I'm on the first tee with him. I give him the driver. He hauls off and whacks one - big hitter, the Lama - long, into a ten-thousand foot crevasse, right at the base of this glacier. Do you know what the Lama says? Gunga galunga... gunga, gunga-lagunga. So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.


What gets lost in the anti-Chinese rhetoric is how atrocious Tibet was before the Chinese took over. Human rights abuses under the Lama and the oligarchy were worse than they are now. The Lama ran Tibet like Saddam ran Iraq, a way to fund his own lifestyle while his people suffered.
 
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I changed my position on Tibet after I watched Penn & Teller's show on him. I decided to explore the topic more. Apparently Lhamo Dondrub (his real name) would rule the country like a feudal king if restored to power. As was done before the PRC took over. Pre-China Tibet was, for all intents and purposes, a serfdom. The priest class lived in luxury at the expense of the poor. Little different from Tsarist Russia.

The issue is mired in political posturing and neither side truly has the average Tibetan in mind. Especially since the the Tibet Autonomous Region contains vast deposits of valuable minerals. They're literally sitting on a gold mine.

For average Tibetan, it's a choice between a brutal, rights denying theocratic dictatorship or a brutal, rights denying communist oligarchy. The PRC has at least attempted to modernize the region. This includes building roads, bolstering the economy, and a plan to offer free education to children by 2020. The vast mineral wealth in the region will ultimately promote more investment. Investment that will trickle down in the form of improved infrastructure and higher paying factory and mining jobs. Most Tibetans are currently subsistence farmers.

Listen carefully to what Lhamo Dondrub says in his speeches. He never says how he would change Tibet or what he would do if restored to power. He just utters trite slogans about peace and tolerance. He occasionally talks about reforms. However, there's not a whole lot of incentive to implement them.

Don't get me wrong, the People's Republic of China is a despicable country that treats its people like crap. However, it's hard to argue that Tibet isn't better off. The region's GDP has increased eight fold since 1994. The per capita GDP is now higher than India's and comparable to Paraguay's.

The whole Tibet issue is definitely something I'd like to explore.
 
What gets lost in the anti-Chinese rhetoric is how atrocious Tibet was before the Chinese took over. Human rights abuses under the Lama and the oligarchy were worse than they are now. The Lama ran Tibet like Saddam ran Iraq, a way to fund his own lifestyle while his people suffered.

You and other brainwashed morons who think they know what they are talking about should be disbarred from spewing your ignorant, vapid, and vacuous commentary online or otherwise.

Tenzin Gyatso, the current Dalai Lama, was 13 when Tibet was invaded by China in 1950. He fled to India and still lives there in refuge. To have the gall to compare him to a ruthless dictator like Saddam Hussein is unparalleled idiocy. You must be Chinese. 🙄

China and its communist supporters also think India is a "colonizing power" trying to "invade" and expand its territory! The irony can be cut with a knife. Naturally, with allies like upstanding Pakistan and North Korea, China can do no wrong! Right? The Chinese invaded a sovereign land in 1950, destroyed the natives' way of life and threatened their spiritual leader with death. To sit there and have the nerve to denigrate a peaceful man like the Dalai Lama, tsk tsk... terrible.

China has systematically invaded Tibet over the decades by settling ethnic Han Chinese in Tibet and diluting Tibetan culture, language, and religion. It is one of the most pernicious and audacious invasions that have taken place in the last century.
 
Also, during the interview, he kept laughing at very awkward moments. For being such a supposedly great Buddhist figure, he sure as hell is not very inspiring.
 
In the matter of comparison with Gandhi, well.... lets just say.... if China gets into WW3 and gets its ass whopped by some country and at that point Tiber pushed really really hard for independence, one parallel group supports and fights with China's enemy and attacks China, China doesn't have any more resources to rule Tibet... well... Dalai Lama might get his independence too

So what you're saying is that if England was not involved in WW II, and was at its full might, India would not have won independence. This type of myopic analysis is like adding sewage into an already murky pool of water (politics).

The simple fact of the matter is that Mahatma Gandhi kindled the spirit of independence in a majority of the Indian populace. From the time of Bhagat Singh and other patriots, independence was always a goal for Indians. Yet, there was never a central figure to unite them for a singular cause; Mohandas Gandhi did just that. To bring together the minds of hundreds of millions of people from all walks of life, varying in language, traditions, culture, and religion, for one purpose is leadership par excellence. To have done this without raising the sword is even more stupendous. Too bad those who are quick to draw the sword, or gun in the modern day, cannot see the immense value and brilliance of this. No leader in the history of the world has been able to stave off the shackles of bonded slavery without an uprising, that too, a violent uprising. Mohandas Gandhi will forever be remembered as the man who showed the world that the biggest problems in life can be solved through non-violence.

The "Fathers" of all nations, except India, have blood on their hands. This is something every Indian, no matter what their background, should be immensely proud of. Not only did Gandhi's almost Jain-like adherence to non-violence vindicate him of any apparent political missteps, it has made him the scion of non-violence for humanity for the foreseeable future.

There is a reason why Gandhi is abused by the likes of Pakistan, China, and even some Western nations; they can never match the spiritual, moral, and mental rectitude of the man.
 
So what you're saying is that if England was not involved in WW II, and was at its full might, India would not have won independence. This type of myopic analysis is like adding sewage into an already murky pool of water (politics).

The simple fact of the matter is that Mahatma Gandhi kindled the spirit of independence in a majority of the Indian populace. From the time of Bhagat Singh and other patriots, independence was always a goal for Indians. Yet, there was never a central figure to unite them for a singular cause; Mohandas Gandhi did just that. To bring together the minds of hundreds of millions of people from all walks of life, varying in language, traditions, culture, and religion, for one purpose is leadership par excellence. To have done this without raising the sword is even more stupendous. Too bad those who are quick to draw the sword, or gun in the modern day, cannot see the immense value and brilliance of this. No leader in the history of the world has been able to stave off the shackles of bonded slavery without an uprising, that too, a violent uprising. Mohandas Gandhi will forever be remembered as the man who showed the world that the biggest problems in life can be solved through non-violence.

The "Fathers" of all nations, except India, have blood on their hands. This is something every Indian, no matter what their background, should be immensely proud of. Not only did Gandhi's almost Jain-like adherence to non-violence vindicate him of any apparent political missteps, it has made him the scion of non-violence for humanity for the foreseeable future.

There is a reason why Gandhi is abused by the likes of Pakistan, China, and even some Western nations; they can never match the spiritual, moral, and mental rectitude of the man.

Gandhi was a great man and he succeeded in his aims. The Dalai Lama is neither great nor successful.
 
I just watched a documentary on this guy yesterday. He doesn't seem that great. He's like a Gandhi-wannabe. He keeps pushing for non-violent resistance, but what has that gotten him? Tibet completely taken over and destroyed by China. The difference between Gandhi and the Dalai Lama is that Gandhi succeeded. This guy is just a big failure. Non-violent resistance can't work in a situation like Tibet and China. If he hadn't pushed for Tibet's independence in the first place, the Chinese would have never massacred them the way they did. Didn't he realize that pushing for Tibet's independence would lead to war? How dumb do you have to be to push for independence when you have absolutely no military force whatsoever? What the hell did he think was going to happen? He always talks about non-violence, yet his incompetence lead to a great deal of violence against his own people.

It is only a few times that I have come across people who equate themselves to the great leaders of our times and those in the past. This is one such example.

First, understand what non-violence (ahimsa) is. Read about it, contemplate on it, and then come to an educated conclusion not just based on what you read, but your experience(s) as well.

Do you solve your problems, however small or big, through violence or non-violence? What is the purpose of life? What is the idea of a "free country" or "free people"? Just being allowed to cast a vote and go shopping during Black Friday does not mean you are "free". Mental and psychological bondage is highly injurious to the body and mind although it may not be apparently so.

When is it, according to you, appropriate to use violence? Is violence, only physically inflicted? Is it emotionally, psychologically, and mentally inflicted as well? If not, why not? Once you correlate these things within the context of your own day-to-day experience, you will begin to understand, although I don't have much hope, what ahimsa (non-violence) really is.

Ahimsa is avoidance of voluntary infliction of violence in whatever form (physically, mentally etc. etc.). And so, there may be instances in which physical violence may be needed; self-preservation for one is an easy example. The question is, how far can "self" preservation be extrapolated? Is it just "self" preservation (aka "self defense") when someone attacks your neighbor? Or what about your community? What about your country? Your religion? Your way of life? Your definition of existence etc.?

The natural reaction to these is to "defend" oneself by whatever means necessary. This has been the excuse of every tyrant in history and the modern day. When the principle of non-violence dawns on one's mind, it starts with oneself and one's immediate surroundings and then can grow outward like water ripples when a stone is dropped in a pond. To have such an effect, is really a miracle for many reasons. Mohandas Gandhi was such a man. The Dalai Lama is also such a man. It takes an extraordinary amount of courage, discipline, and rectitude to apply non-violence in any steadfast manner. That is why most, if not all, countries are ready to pull the trigger in any case of "perceived" emergency/threat.

The Dalai Lama has been completely sidelined by a boisterous and hard-to-ignore communist country; China. They have gone to unprecedented levels to discredit him and his people and goals for many decades. Those who have some semblance of justice can see unequivocally where the machinations of power lie, and thus what the Dalai Lama's real goals are.

China is indeed a military might nowadays and even the USA doesn't have the courage to counter them on the world stage, at least, not in any didactic means. Thus, the lazy, inept, and callous politicians of the world kowtow to China's demands and have already acceded to their assertion that Tibet is a "part of China".

Alas, in this day and age, might is right and those who prefer to be kind are mistaken to be weak. I hope humanity takes the example of paragons like Mohandas "Mahatma" Gandhi and Dalai Lama and solve their problems without bloodshed. Although, this is probably a cry in the wilderness.
 
I changed my position on Tibet after I watched Penn & Teller's show on him. I decided to explore the topic more. Apparently Lhamo Dondrub (his real name) would rule the country like a feudal king if restored to power. As was done before the PRC took over. Pre-China Tibet was, for all intents and purposes, a serfdom. The priest class lived in luxury at the expense of the poor. Little different from Tsarist Russia.

The issue is mired in political posturing and neither side truly has the average Tibetan in mind. Especially since the the Tibet Autonomous Region contains vast deposits of valuable minerals. They're literally sitting on a gold mine.

For average Tibetan, it's a choice between a brutal, rights denying theocratic dictatorship or a brutal, rights denying communist oligarchy. The PRC has at least attempted to modernize the region. This includes building roads, bolstering the economy, and a plan to offer free education to children by 2020. The vast mineral wealth in the region will ultimately promote more investment. Investment that will trickle down in the form of improved infrastructure and higher paying factory and mining jobs. Most Tibetans are currently subsistence farmers.

Listen carefully to what Lhamo Dondrub says in his speeches. He never says how he would change Tibet or what he would do if restored to power. He just utters trite slogans about peace and tolerance. He occasionally talks about reforms. However, there's not a whole lot of incentive to implement them.

Don't get me wrong, the People's Republic of China is a despicable country that treats its people like crap. However, it's hard to argue that Tibet isn't better off. The region's GDP has increased eight fold since 1994. The per capita GDP is now higher than India's and comparable to Paraguay's.

The whole Tibet issue is definitely something I'd like to explore.

The Dalai Lama is a spiritual leader of the Tibetan people, NOT a political one. He never claims to be one and to thus superimpose your rotten conclusions on him is obtuse. And, getting your "information" from numskulls like Penn & Teller is akin to getting information on America from Kalahari bushmen.
 
You and other brainwashed morons who think they know what they are talking about should be disbarred from spewing your ignorant, vapid, and vacuous commentary online or otherwise.

Tenzin Gyatso, the current Dalai Lama, was 13 when Tibet was invaded by China in 1950. He fled to India and still lives there in refuge. To have the gall to compare him to a ruthless dictator like Saddam Hussein is unparalleled idiocy. You must be Chinese. 🙄

China and its communist supporters also think India is a "colonizing power" trying to "invade" and expand its territory! The irony can be cut with a knife. Naturally, with allies like upstanding Pakistan and North Korea, China can do no wrong! Right? The Chinese invaded a sovereign land in 1950, destroyed the natives' way of life and threatened their spiritual leader with death. To sit there and have the nerve to denigrate a peaceful man like the Dalai Lama, tsk tsk... terrible.

China has systematically invaded Tibet over the decades by settling ethnic Han Chinese in Tibet and diluting Tibetan culture, language, and religion. It is one of the most pernicious and audacious invasions that have taken place in the last century.

ROFL!! Talk about ignorant, you're lucky to be able to spell the word. "Dalai Lama" is a title, unless a number is included it doesn't refer to a specific person. The post of mine you quoted referred to the Dalai Lama as the head of Tibet, not to the current Lama in exile. I did it that way intentionally because the specifics of which Lama are unimportant, Tibet has suffered under the dictatorial thumb of ALL the Lamas. From the day the line of Lama started unil #14 got kicked out the citizens of Tibet were treated EVERY BIT as terribly as Saddam treated the people of Iraq. Hell, probably worse. Tibet was a land of political murders that would have made Stalin blush, a land where the priesthood owned almost everything and the "citizens" were their slaves. A land where children were the sexual playthings of the highest-ranking monks, a land where the theocrats were above the law and where anyone who dared speak out against them was tortured and murdered. Tibet was a shithole of epic proportions and it seems like the only person that doesn't understand that is you. Tibet is FAR better off under the Chinese than it was under the long line of Lama criminals and most Tibetans would probably view Iraq and Sharia law as a paradise compared to what Lama's 1-13 did to them.
 
Gandhi was a great man and he succeeded in his aims. The Dalai Lama is neither great nor successful.

Great men are not measured by the success of their pursuits but by the conviction and discipline in which they pursue them.
 
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ROFL!! Talk about ignorant, you're lucky to be able to spell the word. "Dalai Lama" is a title, unless a number is included it doesn't refer to a specific person. The post of mine you quoted referred to the Dalai Lama as the head of Tibet, not to the current Lama in exile. I did it that way intentionally because the specifics of which Lama are unimportant, Tibet has suffered under the dictatorial thumb of ALL the Lamas. From the day the line of Lama started unil #14 got kicked out the citizens of Tibet were treated EVERY BIT as terribly as Saddam treated the people of Iraq. Hell, probably worse. Tibet was a land of political murders that would have made Stalin blush, a land where the priesthood owned almost everything and the "citizens" were their slaves. A land where children were the sexual playthings of the highest-ranking monks, a land where the theocrats were above the law and where anyone who dared speak out against them was tortured and murdered. Tibet was a shithole of epic proportions and it seems like the only person that doesn't understand that is you. Tibet is FAR better off under the Chinese than it was under the long line of Lama criminals and most Tibetans would probably view Iraq and Sharia law as a paradise compared to what Lama's 1-13 did to them.

LOL! And I'm sure the Native Americans feel the same way about their land being taken over by European colonizers right? 🙄 You give the typical argument to justify occupation and invasion. Go on with your polemics. Actions of the Tibetans, the Dalai Lama, and the Chinese speak for themselves.
 
The current Lama can't be held responsible for the actions of his predecessors in running Tibet. Nonetheless, China cannot use them as justification for their actions, either. Tibet is being diluted and taken over by Han Chinese, their culture, religion, and language slowly being destroyed. The Chinese are hardly benefactors here. They are occupiers.

Now for my inner forum troll to come out. China claims Tibet because of it having run the place for so long. Taiwan has run its own affairs since '49. So, for China's claim to Tibet to be valid, their claim to Taiwan is equally invalid by the same logic. Suck it, China.
 
Obvious troll thread is obvious. What a shock that all the Chicom apologists are slithering out from under their rocks.

Maybe we should start threads about other giant assholes like Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela, and Mother Theresa.
 
I subscribe to his twitter and think about the subject of which he speaks. I call myself, to those who really press the issue and insist upon a one-word description of my spirituality, a similar word to that which the lama also is called. That is the extent of my dealings with the man.
 
I changed my position on Tibet after I watched Penn & Teller's show on him. I decided to explore the topic more. Apparently Lhamo Dondrub (his real name) would rule the country like a feudal king if restored to power. As was done before the PRC took over. Pre-China Tibet was, for all intents and purposes, a serfdom. The priest class lived in luxury at the expense of the poor. Little different from Tsarist Russia.

The issue is mired in political posturing and neither side truly has the average Tibetan in mind. Especially since the the Tibet Autonomous Region contains vast deposits of valuable minerals. They're literally sitting on a gold mine.

For average Tibetan, it's a choice between a brutal, rights denying theocratic dictatorship or a brutal, rights denying communist oligarchy. The PRC has at least attempted to modernize the region. This includes building roads, bolstering the economy, and a plan to offer free education to children by 2020. The vast mineral wealth in the region will ultimately promote more investment. Investment that will trickle down in the form of improved infrastructure and higher paying factory and mining jobs. Most Tibetans are currently subsistence farmers.

Listen carefully to what Lhamo Dondrub says in his speeches. He never says how he would change Tibet or what he would do if restored to power. He just utters trite slogans about peace and tolerance. He occasionally talks about reforms. However, there's not a whole lot of incentive to implement them.

Don't get me wrong, the People's Republic of China is a despicable country that treats its people like crap. However, it's hard to argue that Tibet isn't better off. The region's GDP has increased eight fold since 1994. The per capita GDP is now higher than India's and comparable to Paraguay's.

The whole Tibet issue is definitely something I'd like to explore.

Interesting perspective.
 
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