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The Core of Muslim Rage ***A Must Read***

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Bigdude

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,087
0
0


<< i'm not muslim....but what kind of crap is this?!?!?!?

How come we can get away with calling nearly one billion muslims angry terrorists...but as soon as we hint suspicion towards israel, we are anti-semites...

You anandtechers are funny.... You take pride in not being part of the hopeless masses. Yet, you take the new york times as gospel.
Oh well...let this propaganda shape your minds... Don't you dare do your own research on what is actually going on in the mid-east.
Instead....learn from the new york times. LOL!
give me a break!
>>



How many of our buildings did Israel attack?
 

RanDum72

Diamond Member
Feb 11, 2001
4,330
0
76
The source of Muslim rage is basically its a militaristic religion. Most have a twisted interpretation of the Koran just to justify their expansionism. Islam is the fastest growing religion the world. The Fundamentalists will politicize and twist facts to suit their own needs. A Muslim brother got killed in Rome? Just declare jihad( and most Muslims don't really know the meaning of this word). Its also an all encompassing religion, where government and religion is merged into one. This is kinda archaic. Christianity was the same thing back in the Dark Ages and we all know that it doesn't work. Democarcy is the single, most brilliant idea that man came up with. It has survived and triumphed over Communist dictatorships. It will also emerge victorious over religious absolutism.
 

Peetoeng

Golden Member
Dec 21, 2000
1,866
0
0

The article has a good observation. It has been raised quite a few times in commentaries that muslim world needs reformation like christendom several centuries ago. The institutionalized hatred toward israel in muslim world is a pestering wound that gets worse and worse.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
Notice how people characterize and entire group by the actions of a few.

A few??? Sure a small percentage are extremists and carry out terrorists acts and such, but I think a lot more than a few Muslims despise Israel and the U.S. for its support of Israel.

 

Wag

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
8,288
8
81
It is a good read. You don't hear outcry from the Arab world about how Libya, Jordon, Egypt, etc all don't want the Palestinians and regularly have them exiled, killed and living in refugee camps. In fact, Egypt, who is begging the US to get involved is responsible for much of the anti-American rhetoric that lead up to 9/11, and they're still doing it. And these are gov't run newspapers!

On top of that, they cry for an "even handedness" on America's part, for us not to be so hypocrytical and espouse democracy everywhere. Well, it's not in our interest to have democracy in the Arab nations, because past history shows us that as soon as "free elections" are offered, there is quickly a deterioration, and eventually there is a coup and the gov't is taken over by extremists.
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,461
4
81
Very interesting read, but it doesn't surprise me in the least

Arab Muslims treat everyone else as second class citizens...This is why if one of theirs kills a non-muslim he can't be tried for the death penalty(In their eye it isn't really that bad)...

I'm waiting to hear someone try to debunk it..

Czar?
 

novon

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
3,711
0
0
Yeah, I'm sure Thomas L. Friedman is a professor of comparitive religion and isn't at all biased towards Jewish people.

This article is pure opinion pulled out of his ass.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,387
19,687
146


<< Yeah, I'm sure Thomas L. Friedman is a professor of comparitive religion and isn't at all biased towards Jewish people.

This article is pure opinion pulled out of his ass.
>>



He's a hard core liberal, Novon. Into eating your own, now?

Why don't you just say it, Novon. "Those darn dirty Jews can't be trusted."
 

novon

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
3,711
0
0
Who said I'm a liberal or support every liberals? Labels cause half the problems in the world. And Thomas L. Friedman is still spanking monkey.
 

cybergrave

Banned
May 8, 2001
89
0
0
Hi all!:cool:

I have been living in America for last 4 years.
Before living here I have stayed in the follwing places ( more tham 6 months)

Libya
UAE
Cyprus
India
Saudia Arabia

Also I have visited : GErmany, UK, Switzerland, Malta, tunisia, Morocco, Algeria, Jordan, Israel, Nepal, Japan, Greece, Thailand and some more.

Here is what my views about USA are:

According to my personal opinion,
USA and its people are the most Tolerant, Civilized, Broad Minded, Law abiding indivudials I have ever seen.
I feel safer in USA than I would in my own country. USA is not the Superpower because of its military. It is on the top becuase its people have learnt to co exist peacefully under one flag and work towards a better future.

US rules !!!!!
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,387
19,687
146


<< Who said I'm a liberal or support every liberals? Labels cause half the problems in the world. And Thomas L. Friedman is still spanking monkey. >>



Uh huh. You're about as left as they come, Novon. And while you're busy "poisoning the wells" (attacking the source) and throwing out baseless ad hominems here, you haven't actually addressed a single point he made.
 

Zombie

Platinum Member
Dec 8, 1999
2,359
1
71
As I understand partition British india was done based on religion. If muslims in india are so unhappy and abused as 'xyyz' stated in his posts then why don't they all just move to pakistan. I mean didn't they get their own country like 50 years ago ?

To me it sounds like everytime there is a sizable minority of muslims anywhere in the world they want a seperate country. Why can't they all just move to middle-east like lot of jews move to Israel ?
 

Optimus

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2000
3,618
0
0
Da-AM, that is a good article.



Novon - come on, this is pathetic! What in the article do you disagree with? All I've seen you say here is 'He's a Jew!'...

Even Czar agrees with almost everything in the article...
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126


<< Arab Muslims treat everyone else as second class citizens...This is why if one of theirs kills a non-muslim he can't be tried for the death penalty(In their eye it isn't really that bad)... >>

Yep, that's pretty accurate. It's analogous to what I've heard described as the 'Middle Kingdom complex', where Chinese (and to a lesser extent because of cultural exposure, Japanese) people regard the world outside as filled with barbarians, where it's an honour to deal with their people in trade, etc.

Well, someone needs to coin the term 'Middle East complex'. It's the same damn thing, in many of their eyes we're all pale-skinned, uncivilized infidels who are destined for hell anyways - so why treat people as equals?

If this thread is still going later I'll post where I think that all comes from, but for now I have class. :)
 

SaltBoy

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2001
8,975
11
81
This reminds me of the first interview that David Letterman did post 9-11 -- with Dan Rather.

Letterman asked Rather why is there so much hatred towards Americans by Arab-Muslims. Rather responded by saying that Arab-Muslims view themselves as the losers of the world. Ouch. Jihad is suck. :(
 

gunf1ghter

Golden Member
Jan 29, 2001
1,866
0
0
Pers,

You seriously need to get a clue and pull your head out of your A**.

You comment that the India/Pakistan (Hindu/Muslim) conflict is "not severe"... wtf have you been? In the last 20 years over 35,000 people have been killed in the border disputes over Kashmir. Although the issue of Kashmire becoming a province of Pakistan is something of a "rebellion" against India, religion has almost everything to do with it.

Israel is not a perfect country by any stretch of the imagination, but how the heck do you think the US would act if Mexico (a peaceful country, btw) decided that they wanted Texas back and started butchering innocent women and children until we abandoned it?
 

UberNeuman

Lifer
Nov 4, 1999
16,937
3,087
126
AmusedOne - thanks for posting this... It is a very interesting look at some of the driving forces behind the attacks on the US and Israel...
 

gunf1ghter

Golden Member
Jan 29, 2001
1,866
0
0
I saw the Dan Rather interview and that is not an accurate portrayel of what he said. He was specifically asked about why Americans are so hated around the world. Rather pointed out that the majority of people in other countries respect or admire the United States... he said that those who hate the US are typically the real "losers" of a given society.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,754
6,766
126
Like so many who have deep insight, real and valid critiques, into and of ?the other?, the author, I think, fails to notice how his truth applies to him and ?his side?
<<I raise this point not to make some idiot press critique or engage in cheap Arab-bashing. This is a serious issue. In recent weeks, whenever Arab Muslims told me of their pain at seeing Palestinians brutalized by Israelis on their TV screens every night, I asked back: Why are you so pained about Israelis brutalizing Palestinians, but don't say a word about the brutality with which Saddam Hussein has snuffed out two generations of Iraqis using murder, fear and poison gas? I got no good answers.?>>

Does he not wonder that so few words come from Israelis for their brutalizing Palestinians.

<<Because the real answer is rooted in something very deep. It has to do with the contrast between Islam's self-perception as the most ideal and complete expression of the three great monotheistic religions ? Judaism, Christianity and Islam ? and the conditions of poverty, repression and underdevelopment in which most Muslims live today.

As a U.S. diplomat in the Middle East said to me, Israel ? not Iraq, not India ? is "a constant reminder to Muslims of their own powerlessness." How could a tiny Jewish state amass so much military and economic power if the Islamic way of life ? not Christianity or Judaism ? is God's most ideal religious path?>>

Regardless of self perceptions, the Israelis actually do keep the Palestinians powerless. We cannot tell, therefore, to what extent some supposed superiority plays into this

<<When Hindus kill Muslims it's not a story, because there are a billion Hindus and they aren't part of the Muslim narrative. When Saddam murders his own people it's not a story, because it's in the Arab-Muslim family. But when a small band of Israeli Jews kills Muslims it sparks rage ? a rage that must come from Muslims having to confront the gap between their self-perception as Muslims and the reality of the Muslim world.>>

I think it rather delusional to think that Muslims are not going to take note of murders by Hindus so I wouldn?t credit this explanation as all of the explanation.

<<I have long believed that it is this poverty of dignity, not a poverty of money, that is behind a lot of Muslim rage today and the reason this rage is sharpest among educated, but frustrated, Muslim youth. It is they who perpetrated 9/11 and who slit the throat of the Wall Street Journal reporter Danny Pearl ? after reportedly forcing him to declare on film, "I am a Jew and my mother is a Jew.">>

This is a very wise insight: The poverty of dignity is behind a lot of rage. What the author doesn?t realize is the profound depth to which we all suffer from a poverty of dignity. This applies to almost all of us and certainly every nation. Only Tibet could be a possible exception. They gave it over to the Chinese because they had vastly more dignity. Israelis, many Israelis, maybe even many fewer, percentage wise, than in other countries do not have sufficient dignity to see Palestinians as fellow human beings, identical in how they respond if the tables were turned.

<<This is not to say that U.S. policy is blameless. We do bad things sometimes. But why is it that only Muslims react to our bad policies with suicidal terrorism, not Mexicans or Chinese? Is it because Arab-Muslim conspiracy theories state that Jews could not be so strong on their own ? therefore the only reason Israel could be strong, and Muslims weak, is because the U.S. created and supports Israel?>>

Well this is kind of a mish mash of theories. As to why the Muslims have reacted with suicide bombings has a lot to do with the fact that they can. They have the money, the skill, and the intent. There was a time when the dispute was over land and the Mexicans did kill Americans, or at least Texans as did the Chinese directly or indirectly in Vietnam and Korea.

<<The Muslim world needs to take an honest look at this rage.>>

So do the Israelis.

<<Look what it has done to Palestinian society ? where the flower of Palestinian youth now celebrate suicide against Jews as a source of dignity. That is so bad. Yes, there is an Israeli occupation, and that occupation has been hugely distorting of Palestinian life. But the fact is this: If Palestinians had said, "We are going to oppose the Israeli occupation, with nonviolent resistance, as if we had no other options, and we are going to build a Palestinian society, schools and economy, as if we had no occupation" ? they would have had a quality state a long time ago. Instead they have let the occupation define their whole movement and become Yasir Arafat's excuse for not building jobs and democracy.>>

Similarly, if the Israelis had said to themselves, after all these centuries the homeland promised to us by God can no longer be thought of as ours because there are another people living there now who call it home, and if we try to remove them from it, that will only start a bloody conflict, so we choose not to try to get it back, there wouldn?t be a problem either. In other words if the Palestinians had been supermen and not acted as anybody would under the identical conditions and tried to get their land back, but just said, oh well you got a bunch of our land and our water etc, but we?re just gonna go over here and pretend it never happened, well then yea, there wouldn?t be a conflict.

<<Only Muslims can heal their own rage. But the West, and particularly the Jewish world, should help. Because this rage poses an existential threat to Israel. Three broad trends are now converging: (1) The worst killing ever between Israelis and Palestinians; (2) a baby boom in the Arab-Muslim world, where about half the population is under 20; (3) an explosion of Arab satellite TV and Internet, which are taking the horrific images from the intifada and beaming them directly to the new Arab- Muslim generation. If 100 million Arab-Muslims are brought up with these images, Israel won't survive.>>

Good thinking.

<<Some of this hatred will remain no matter what Israel does. But to think that Israel's exiting the occupied territories ? and abandoning its insane settlement land grab there ? wouldn't reduce this problem is absurd.>>

No kidding. Right on.

<<Israel cannot do it alone. But it has to do all it can to get this show off the air. It would take away an important card from the worst Muslim anti- Semites and it would help strengthen those Muslims, and there are many of them, who know that the suicidal rage of their fanatics is dragging down their whole civilization.>>

Again, the suicidal rage that many Muslims are experiencing is in all of us. We all suffer from feelings of inferiority. To feel inferiority is to truly believe that you are inferior. That?s the problem. Who wants to know this. It?s like finding out that you really are the worst in the world. You are what you hate. Who wants to find that out. It can only be attempted when you thoroughly understand that feeling something is true is not the same as it being true. It?s just that we can?t believe that. So we pretend it isn?t true. War is one way we pretend.
 

rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,475
1
0


<< Actually, should this rage remain unchecked, will a most terrible world war result. >>



Terrible war my ass. If Islam does not learn to moderate itself it will soon be annialated. Israel alone could wipe into oblivion all their neighbors. Bin Ladin made a huge mistake attacking the US directly on our home soil. He severely underestimated our ability and desire to eliminate our enemies. As Bush has said, we are watching, if they step out of line they will be taught a lesson. We cannot and will not stand idlely by and wait to be attacked again.



<< As I understand partition British india was done based on religion. If muslims in india are so unhappy and abused as 'xyyz' stated in his posts then why don't they all just move to pakistan. I mean didn't they get their own country like 50 years ago ? >>



Ghandi created Pakistan, one on each side of India. (the eastern side has since renamed themselves Bangledesh <sp>). Ghandi was an amazing man, study him if you get the chance.

The palestinians must accept that to succeed at peace they must accept that israel exists. I have seen no evidence that they do, they still think they can defeat Israel. Arafat should study Ghandi.

 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
2
0
Terrible war my ass.

You just answer your own statement with......... If Islam does not learn to moderate itself it will soon be annialated.

Now what in the hell do you think a terrible war would be?

Israel alone could wipe into oblivion all their neighbors.

And six months ago you want to start a damn flame war with me because I flatly state the Israelis show restraint?

WTF is up with you dude?!?!?!?
 

PlatinumGold

Lifer
Aug 11, 2000
23,168
0
71
I have been living in America for last 4 years.
Before living here I have stayed in the follwing places ( more tham 6 months)

Libya
UAE
Cyprus
India
Saudia Arabia

Also I have visited : GErmany, UK, Switzerland, Malta, tunisia, Morocco, Algeria, Jordan, Israel, Nepal, Japan, Greece, Thailand and some more.

Here is what my views about USA are:

According to my personal opinion,
USA and its people are the most Tolerant, Civilized, Broad Minded, Law abiding indivudials I have ever seen.
I feel safer in USA than I would in my own country. USA is not the Superpower because of its military. It is on the top becuase its people have learnt to co exist peacefully under one flag and work towards a better future.

US rules !!!!!



I don't disagree, just another point, the Reason americans are "Tolerant, Civilized, Broad Minded, Law abiding indivudials" is becaue of RULE of LAW. We live in a society ruled by laws, not by men. this is contrary to the majority of the world.


Also btw, I know quite a few indians. Lots of Indians live in New Jersey, I don't know much of the history but i know how they feel about muslims. the hatred that many modern indians feel towards muslims is almost the same as the hatred the muslims feel about the Jews.

the Muslim, Hindu, Jewish triangle is an EXTREMELY dangerous one. There is no telling when that bomb will go off.