The Confederate States of America movie

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
After watching the first 20 minutes, I'm inclined to agree with this Netflix reviewer:

Watching this movie reminds me of how I feel when I watch a SNL skit that becomes a movie. What was an amusing 5-minute joke usually really stinks as a 90-minute movie. In this case the joke is 'Imagine if the South won, and slavery still existed', and then apply that joke to every decade of US history. So we see the Reconstruction, the Depression, WWII, the Kennedy era, etc through a simplistic, racist lense. Whatever novelty the joke has fades after 10 minutes, and whatever insight into race politics or history might exist in this film is quickly wasted or completely obscured by bad production quality and offensive parody-commercials that pepper the mock-umentary. Other reviewers complain about the innacuracy of the faux history, which is weird to me. This is not an academic 'what-if' exercise, it's a bad satirical joke. It's like complaining about Murphy's Buckwheat skits on SNL as being inauthentic representations of Billy 'Buckwheat' Thomas: if you do that you're missing the point of the skit. The difference here is that Buckwheat made people laugh. CSA does not.

What's the point? Slavery was bad and the Confederates were wrong? Sweet. Pretty sure that was established in most peoples' minds during elementary school. Now what? Are we supposed to revel in stories about fictional atrocities and giggle at the same satire for another 70 minutes?
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,830
3
0
After watching the first 20 minutes, I'm inclined to agree with this Netflix reviewer:



What's the point? Slavery was bad and the Confederates were wrong? Sweet. Pretty sure that was established in most peoples' minds during elementary school. Now what? Are we supposed to revel in stories about fictional atrocities and giggle at the same satire for another 70 minutes?

I see you don't live in the South... Revisionism is very popular there. A lot of people believe that things would be better if the South did win, and that the Civil War wasn't even about slavery.
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
I see you don't live in the South... Revisionism is very popular there. A lot of people believe that things would be better if the South did win, and that the Civil War wasn't even about slavery.

Says the guy who lives in Hawaii? I suppose it is the Southern-most state :p
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
I see you don't live in the South... Revisionism is very popular there. A lot of people believe that things would be better if the South did win, and that the Civil War wasn't even about slavery.

The Civil War wasn't entirely about slavery. Slavery was about 40% of it. The rest was mostly about the right to secede. There's a reason the southerner's were called "Johnny Reb" and not "Johnny Slaver."

That's what the educational systems in Northern Virginia and Pennsylvania taught me anyway.
 
Last edited:

101mpg

Member
Nov 29, 2010
122
0
0
This is the equivalent of a middle school history class; "the south wanted slaves and the north wanted to free the slaves, so they had a war and the good guys won!"

this is what happens when you have to lower the standards of teaching to the lowest common denominator :(
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,493
3,159
136
The Civil War wasn't entirely about slavery. Slavery was about 40% of it. The rest was mostly about the right to secede. There's a reason the southerner's were called "Johnny Reb" and not "Johnny Slaver."

That's what the educational systems in Northern Virginia and Pennsylvania taught me anyway.

Oh My Fk-ing God!
A joke....?
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
348
126
This is the equivalent of a middle school history class; "the south wanted slaves and the north wanted to free the slaves, so they had a war and the good guys won!"

this is what happens when you have to lower the standards of teaching to the lowest common denominator :(

Saying 'the majority of states which were the north passed bill after bill for years the southern states that were a minority voted against and lost the votes, to the point they questioned what good is democracy when their votes counted as zero and they were exploited', is both not fitting the bias of 'the victor writes history', and something that raises questions about Democracy with the students, which is not 'politically correct', the nice version you listed. It's not just about 'standards'.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
348
126
Trivia: what we know as the 'southern accent' didn't exist until after the civil war, I hear.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,830
3
0
The Civil War wasn't entirely about slavery. Slavery was about 40% of it. The rest was mostly about the right to secede. There's a reason the southerner's were called "Johnny Reb" and not "Johnny Slaver."

That's what the educational systems in Northern Virginia and Pennsylvania taught me anyway.

The reason to secede was slavery... not "just because"

Yes history is complex, which gives revisionists and moral relativists plenty of opportunity to subvert reality.
 

apathy_next2

Member
Jun 15, 2010
166
0
71
So what were you taught? "Blue guys good, grey guys own slaved so dey bad! DAT WHOLE CIVIL WAR!"

Hint: History is more complex than you think.

I saw taught that Lincoln in no way would be able to get approval for a war if he just said its about slavery. He had to put the right to secede as the major overall issue in order to get approval.
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
4
0
The reason to secede was slavery... not "just because"
The justification to invade and occupy the states that seceded was to "preserve the union." Yes, the aristocracy of The South (that caused much poverty among freemen) felt threatened by a growing abolitionist movement and protecting their economic interests was their primary concern, but if one thinks that The Confederacy was occupied by Federal troops to free the slaves, then one is delusional and likely thinks that America invaded Europe to end the Holocaust.

Abraham Lincoln:
If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union.

Not to mention, there were slave states in The Union and the Emancipation Proclamation did not cover the slaves in those states...
 

Macamus Prime

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2011
3,108
0
0
I guess only American Southerns could live with preaching, practicing and enforcing freedom,... while owning human beings as slaves.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,072
1,476
126
Well the war started because of secession. The north didn't really care that much about the South having slavery. Now the north didn't have slavery because they didn't particularly need slaves when they didn't have plantations. And the South seceded for many reasons, not just slavery though slavery was an emotional contributing factor. The South largely viewed slavery as a states rights type of thing, much like the their crazy cousins of today, the racist Tea Party do. But the South had a fear that with the North being more populous and not allowing new states to the union have slavery that eventually the North would have enough of a majority to end slavery altogether. This would economically harm the less industrialized and still heavily agricultural South.

And to the South's credit, while racism and slavery were a reason for their animosity. The North also heavily looked down on the South and enacted legislation with their majority that did indeed hurt the South. From the view of the South, slavery or not, on the premise of states rights and simply for economic survival, the Southern states felt secession was the only option.

The North didn't give a damn about the slaves. The North still considered the South part of the Union and fought to keep them within the US. And the South fought for their right to secede. In the end it's very accurate to say that the civil war was about secession and not slavery. The secession itself was in large part at least about slavery. One of the main reasons that the Emancipation Proclamation was made was to win the war. By making the war suddenly about slavery, Lincoln made it political suicide for countries like England and France to help the South (which they would have for trade access to southern resource) because those countries had already freed slaves.

It's kinda funny that almost 150 years after the end of the civil war that in the South the mentality is still the same. You still largely have racism and bigotry and a suicidal obcession with states rights, and thus they are red states.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,830
3
0
The argument that it was about secession is like saying you divorced your wife because of divorce, not because she was a bitch.

Yes, the Civil War happened because the South seceded. The south didn't secede for secession's sake, they seceded because slavery was outlawed in the new territories and they feared that Lincoln was anti-slavery, which he was, political statements notwithstanding.

It's amazing the mental gymnastics that revisionists will go through just so they can put a stars and bars decal on their pickups.
 
Last edited:

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,445
7,506
136
No Union justly exists by compulsion and threat of force. While Lincoln thought he saved the Union, he actually killed it. The right of self determination shall not be taken by another, and is needed now more than ever.
 

epidemis

Senior member
Jun 6, 2007
796
0
0
.. but if one thinks that The Confederacy was occupied by Federal troops to free the slaves, then one is delusional and likely thinks that America invaded Europe to end the Holocaust.

Or invading IRAQ for their WMDs :D

I don't know an awful lot about the civil wars, but I know about the context, that it was a period of consolidation for US. In that light, the slavery could just have been a casu belli for weightier reasons.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,830
3
0
No Union justly exists by compulsion and threat of force. While Lincoln thought he saved the Union, he actually killed it. The right of self determination shall not be taken by another, and is needed now more than ever.

Are you being serious?
 

brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
24,237
5,634
136
No Union justly exists by compulsion and threat of force. While Lincoln thought he saved the Union, he actually killed it. The right of self determination shall not be taken by another, and is needed now more than ever.

so if i self-determine to come to your house and make you my slave, is that legitimate self-determination?
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,265
126
Or invading IRAQ for their WMDs :D

I don't know an awful lot about the civil wars, but I know about the context, that it was a period of consolidation for US. In that light, the slavery could just have been a casu belli for weightier reasons.

There were many many points of view during the CW what about what there was to fight for/against. I'm not familiar with your ideology but we only need another adult for a serious discussion and I'll assume you to be one and give it a shot ;)

First things first. I'll try approaching this from the perspective of those who lived during those times. That means I'm not going to pontificate against slavery because the absolute worst criteria any situation can be judged by is that which didn't not exist at the time.

Second is an understanding of what slavery was, and that's an economic system. No one brought Africans here to oppress them. The economy of the south was mostly agrarian. Cotton was King. That and other farm crops sustained the South economically and provided the North with it's needs. The North was more of an industrial society and slavery made no sense. It was unnecessary.

IMO this is the key to understanding the people who took sides during the Civil War. Note that what follows is a generalization and "all generalizations are bad" holds. Nevertheless I believe this applies to the collective for our purposes.

The South believed that slavery was necessary for their economic survival. Further, they believed that slavery should be an option in new territories and should not be limited by those who have no understanding of what would be agricultural areas.

The North had a chance to distance themselves from slavery once it became unnecessary. They saw the abuses and weren't happy about them. Let's face it, slavery is harsh and brutal in most cases, and the South was not a place that could boast of it's humanity.

So the North felt a moral imperative to stop or at least contain slavery, and the South felt that it's very survival required it.

Some might stop there, but it's not that simple. Complicating this was the feeling by some that the Union was the highest form of government possible and therefore had to be kept united at all costs. Others felt that the Union was only binding as long as it's participants were willing to abide by it's conditions. If they ever came to be seen as onerous, then leaving was an option. After all the US left under hostile terms for that very reason.

Competing economics, needs, and political outlooks which were not unrelated but came to create a complex and varied perception of moral and philosophical considerations.

Many factors created a climate of hostility fear and distrust. The War was inevitable, but the first match to the fire was economics.