The complete lowdown on cars, let's end the madness!

[DSTA]

Migroo I MUST change my car. It gets 40 MPG when driven sedately, but its Japanese, so all the fun is at 4000 + rpm, so if I drive normally (ie: sometimes driving sedately, sometimes gunning it) i get about 26 mpg!!

Ouch. Still a bit better than my 1.3 Mini (one of the last with good old SU carbs) but you'd think there was some progress in 50 years of engine design (I get around 20 mpg). WRT to the Audi, don't forget it has a very modern diesel engine. These things are just surreal WRT fuel consumption. Sadly they are also surreal in terms of purchase price - you'd have to do a lot of miles a yeat to justify the initial costs.

 

[Migroo]

Thats very true DSTA. Audis, even VWs these days have a high initial outlay...

SU carbs? Sweet A friend of mine has a Toyota 1.6 litre 4A-GE on dual side draught webers... Its highly tuned, and only picks up at 3000+... The sound is incredible!

 

[Bozz]

<< [Cyberian: Yes exactly. However two intave valves (or more) are only worth it if the cylinder is wide enough to benefit. In a thin cylinder, the piston has a long throw, so the fuel gets compressed into a decent mixture around inside the cavity. With a wide cylinder / short stroke engine, if there was one intake valve, then due to hw wide the cylinder is, there may be a case where the fuel is on one side of the cylinder, and hasnt radiated to the other side yet... >>



Accurate yet not entirely correct:

This is more from an engineering and mathematical viewpoint

Ignoring the stroke of the piston, also ignoring the fact a spark plug exists, the maximum surface area of two equivalently sized valves inside the combustion chamber is:

Assume the bore and combustion chamber is 10cm in diameter. Each valve if equally sized (which they aren't in real life) can only be 5cm diameter. This means the circumference of the intake valve is 3.141 x 5 = 15.7cm. The total surface area is 19.6cm square. This number is significantly less in real life due to the fact the spark plug must be inserted somewhere.

Now lets move to a 4 valve head. From memory (theory was many years ago when I studied this) I think the maximum theoretical diameter of a valve was about 3cm on a 4 valve head. This gives a 9.42cm circumference, two valves would equal 18.84cm circumference.

The 4 valve head will flow more than the 2 valve head in any given situation assuming it has been engineered correctly, not just in a short stroke/wide bore engine. Also dont forget the 2 valve head must insert a spark plug somewhere in there and the valve size must be approprately reduced.

But you are pretty much on the right track regarding filling of a wide cylinder with a short stroke and a 2 valve head.... it's pointless

Cheers

 

[DSTA]

Migroo> Thats very true DSTA. Audis, even VWs these days have a high initial outlay...

Yup. I wouldn't buy even a Lupo for what they cost new/used here, nevermind an A2. That's going to get better with the Euro making things more transparent next year (the A2 is up 25% less in Denmark for example), but still. I really like performance small cars, so when the Mini goes into storage next year I really want to buy a Novitec Cinquecento. 115hp turbo hp in a 800kg Fiat Cinquecento Sporting. I've driven one, it left GTIs of all shapes and colours in the dust, I want one - just have to persuade my girlfriend that this is just the best thing to pick up groceries with .

Migroo> SU carbs? Sweet A friend of mine has a Toyota 1.6 litre 4A-GE on dual side draught webers... Its highly tuned, and only picks up at 3000+... The sound is incredible!

Ah, bliss - those Webers are NICE (and not quite inexpensive ). I've got the more or less standard twin SU HS2s on the Mini. Sound is okish but it's only very mildly tuned. The safety Nazis* from the German T&Uuml;V (MOT for the .UK crowd) wouldn't let me do more without submiting the Mini to super expensive individual testing.

*not PC, but it's really the best description. Picky unfriendyl ***holes .

 

[Ornery]

• Bah! There just ain?t no substitute for the natural torque production of a big block!

 

[Midnight Rambler]

<< Domestics:
Most domestics are produced with price in mind. Not all, but most. The interiors are generally of lower quality and the technology used is usually old school. There are a lot of people who like this, no, some even love this. They are muscle car people and they will always find a home in American cars. These are great cars and have their place. The easiest way to drag is to get a big displacement American car. >>

There is so much wrong in this statement one doesn't know where to begin ...

Do you realize that there are only about 4-5 OEM interior suppliers left world-wide, and that ALL of the major manufacturers use these same suppliers? Certainly designs differ greatly, but great aesthetics does not automatically equate to higher quality, ie. just because you might think a design sucks appearance-wise does not mean it doesn't meet all performance and life-cycle requirements, among other things.

Old school technology? Surely you're joking. The "domestics" as you call them are responsible for at least 75-80% of the meaningful innovations that have taken place over the history of the auto. What was the first mass produced car with a full IRS? First mass car with 4 wheel disc brakes, and on and on the list goes ... As for current stuff, I can only speak for GM, and given your bias, I'm sure you would hate the style of any of the new Cadillacs, but strip them of their sheet metal and interiors and you will find some of the highest levels/uses of technologies in any car built today. The Olds 3.5 V6, Nothstar V8, and our new I6 engines all can compete with any other makers' similar offerings, performance or tech-wise. The 'Vette's traction control/stabilization system walks all over the previous "standard" from Porsche. Cadillac entered endurance racing (and lured away some key BMW designers too ) to mount an all-out assault on the BMW 3 series. GM's R&D dwarfs any other company, in $'s, research space, # of Phd's, patents awarded each yr., blah blah blah ...

No, it's definitely not old school around here. If only I could round up some of you mis-guided 'Techers to the Warren, Michigan area - we have a "little" place out 12 Mile Rd. way that would make your heads spin (literally and figuratively ... testing facilities also are located there ... ).


Seriously, the only way to "end the madness" is to quit reading all those car magazines, and to quit associating aesthetic design with quality.