The Chinese can copy anything... even stealth aircraft

[Darwin333]

Seriously. You'd think they'd be blabbing about this to all hell.

Why would you tell a potential foe what your true potential is when you can just let them guess? I would assume anything they would have said to be at least partially fabricated.

Besides, as Zebo stated, we still have the entire nuke issue literally at the push of a button.

 

[Blackjack200]

I read a similar article like the first article in a Popular Science issue back in 2000 or 2001.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/june01/2001-06-20-new-radar.htm
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-10-26-serb-stealth_x.htm
but most interestingly,
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htada/articles/20051121.aspx

I think we need to accept the idea that stealth-countering techniques and technologies are not only an option for countries that can't afford to spend much on their military, but a necessity. Stealth tech isn't exactly new, and I wouldn't surprised if a faction has 'weaponized' a country's cell phone infrastructure or trained anti air crews how to fight stealth planes smartly.

lol, are you kidding me? did you read those things?

Cell phone towers to track a "hole" in the sky? How is that going to give you the range? Even if that wasn't a concern, do you realize how incredibly complicated it would be to try to make sense of all those signals? You'd need multiple broadcast points and multiple receivers. No one has built anything like this yet.

And the Serbian dude? It's called a lucky shot. Did you read what he said?

"We used a little innovation to update our 1960s-vintage SAMs to detect the Nighthawk," Dani said. He declined to discuss specifics, saying the exact nature of the modification to the warhead's guidance system remains a military secret.

It involved "electromagnetic waves," was all that Dani — who now owns a small bakery in this sleepy village just north of Belgrade — would divulge.

Yeah, I mean, if I figured out how to track an F-117 with radar, I'd only shoot one of them down too. Not a whole shitload of them, even though they fly sorties every night. And if I figured out how to track an F-117 with radar, I'd be running a fucking bakery in belgrade instead of consulting with Lockheed or Northrop Grumman for six figures and an HB-1.

Come on man

 

[Blackjack200]

If we can build 200 sorta good drones for the cost of a single enemy fighter jet it might not be a bad strategy. Small and agile drones outnumbering large manned planes 20 to 1 would be a hell of a fight, anything more and the enemy would be retarded not to retreat. You would probably need some sort of support AWACS type of plane to control them or relay controls but would that really be harder to figure out than a F-22?

For the cost of an F-22 we could probably throw in a hundred decoy drones or so.

So if we're going to outnumber the enemy fighters 20-1, do we also train and support 20 remote pilots for every pilot they have? Do we build 20 turbine engines for every engine they build? How much fuel are we burning? Sounds like a shitload to me. And if you're talking about building slower drones that are more fuel efficient (and are traveling, say, ~ 200 knots) that would be a turkey shoot for any 4th generation fighter.

Manned fighters will be around for a while, just that most of the focus and energy is going to be on UAVs for a while.

 

[llee]

Cell phone towers to track a "hole" in the sky? How is that going to give you the range? Even if that wasn't a concern, do you realize how incredibly complicated it would be to try to make sense of all those signals? You'd need multiple broadcast points and multiple receivers. No one has built anything like this yet.

The Serbian commander avoided radar because he knew it would expose his forces to HARM missiles. But I hope you realize that it's been 20 years. A lot can happen in that time. Cell phone use has proliferated, knowledge of stealth tech has circulated across the internet. For comparison, Google is only 12- and they aren't state sponsored to fight!

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

I heard a story at work that the US designed a torpedo and put a reverse threaded screw in the design for no reason at all just to see if it would get copied. Somehow China now has the same torpedo havign hte same pointless reverse threaded screw.

 

[JS80]

Tell China welcome to 1981.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Isn't that the way it goes with most everything anyways?
To get to the first stealth jet, you had to start with German plans and then work with Russian software.

Yep. the technology behind the tape track( hf bias current on magnetic tape) was copied from german broadcast technology from ww2. It is one of the reason why there are so much quality broadcasts remaining from that timeframe.
The history on this wiki is not entirely correct unless they only speak of the specific physical design..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8-track_tape

the superior technology was invented in Germany by Walter Weber..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichs-Rundfunk-Gesellschaft
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_tape_sound_recording#German_developments

Here is the details in a pdf :
http://www.richardhess.com/tape/history/Engel_Hammar--Magnetic_Tape_History.pdf

It was John T Mullin who brought the superior technology to the US because of his love for music.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Mullin

Almost everything about electronics pre silicon transistor based can be traced back to Germany. Almost everything based on HF em waves(radar technology) rocket technology and even nuclear technology. A lot of chemical knowledge and biological knowledge all came from the (at times horrifying) research during ww2 by the germans. But after that the US started it's own plans because a couple of extremely smart fellows in every way. That was the start of silicon valley. Fred Terman and William Shockley (co inventor of the silicon transistor).

Great history about silicon valley:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTC_RxWN_xo


History of John t Mullin aka Jack Mullin :
http://www.pavekmuseum.org/jmullin.html

 

[Blackjack200]

The Serbian commander avoided radar because he knew it would expose his forces to HARM missiles. But I hope you realize that it's been 20 years. A lot can happen in that time. Cell phone use has proliferated, knowledge of stealth tech has circulated across the internet. For comparison, Google is only 12- and they aren't state sponsored to fight!

SAM defenses have avoided using radar since the Vietnam War. That's nothing new. Anyone that doesn't learn to turn their radar off 99% of the time gets blown up on the first day.

Fine, it's been 20 years... what's changed? You can have all the cell phone towers you want and it doesn't mean they can track an aircraft.

Knowledge of "stealth tech" can circulate all it wants; the technology is still effective.

 

[EagleKeeper]

And if said radar is friendly? HARM missiles are great if you have a rough idea of where the source of the jamming is. Not that it wouldn't work, but it wouldn't be anywhere near effective enough to justify risking so many resources (control center + fighters) IMO. Only a trained pilot (or maybe future AI) is capable of truly identifying the nature of a situation on the fly.

The frequency(s) is known up front that you are sniffing for - also the rough direction/location of the radar.

 

[Darwin333]

So if we're going to outnumber the enemy fighters 20-1, do we also train and support 20 remote pilots for every pilot they have?

Yes. Get them from the video game tournaments. Ever see some of those kids play Halo?

Do we build 20 turbine engines for every engine they build?

Yes. Vastly smaller engines and simple economies of scale will bring the costs WAY down.

How much fuel are we burning?

Not sure but it would be a lot less than a huge friggen manned fighter jet. I doubt it would be 1/20th but it should be considerably less due to the smaller size and reduced weight.

And if you're talking about building slower drones that are more fuel efficient (and are traveling, say, ~ 200 knots) that would be a turkey shoot for any 4th generation fighter.

No, they would have to be faster than 200 knots and even then it would still technically be a turkey shoot for 4th gen fighters. However, the turkeys will be shooting back and the 4th gen fighter doesn't even have half the missiles to deal with 20 attackers for every 1 of them. I assume we can make them stealthier due to the vastly reduced size as well. Would YOU risk your 1/4 of a billion dollar jet and extremely highly trained pilots against a fuckton of cheap drones?

Manned fighters will be around for a while, just that most of the focus and energy is going to be on UAVs for a while.

I am sure they will. I think I read that the F-22 can even direct fire from nearby drones so perhaps we could use the drones to supplement the abilities and firepower of the F-22 while enabling it to take less risk.

 

[RGUN]

Yes. Get them from the video game tournaments. Ever see some of those kids play Halo?



Yes. Vastly smaller engines and simple economies of scale will bring the costs WAY down.



Not sure but it would be a lot less than a huge friggen manned fighter jet. I doubt it would be 1/20th but it should be considerably less due to the smaller size and reduced weight.



No, they would have to be faster than 200 knots and even then it would still technically be a turkey shoot for 4th gen fighters. However, the turkeys will be shooting back and the 4th gen fighter doesn't even have half the missiles to deal with 20 attackers for every 1 of them. I assume we can make them stealthier due to the vastly reduced size as well. Would YOU risk your 1/4 of a billion dollar jet and extremely highly trained pilots against a fuckton of cheap drones?



I am sure they will. I think I read that the F-22 can even direct fire from nearby drones so perhaps we could use the drones to supplement the abilities and firepower of the F-22 while enabling it to take less risk.

Ahh, the old killbot preset kill limit offense.