The changing world

[pontifex]

I'm reading the first autobiography of a man who was born in 1878 and died in 1957 and this is what got me thinking about this. Sometimes when he speaks of places from his childhood he also mentions how they've changed since then.

I'm a sucker for a beautiful landscape. Sometimes the natural beauty of a place just makes me feel really emotional. I don't really know how to describe it.

So you see (maybe as a child) this really beautiful wooded area and you have lots of great memories about it. 30 years down the road, it becomes a strip mall or a housing development.

Does anyone else feel really sad or feel a great loss at such a thing or am I one of the few who feels this way? It then makes me think of all the places that used to be wonderful that no one will ever see again, and even the places that will be gone in the future.

I feel the same way about things that have been lost due to wars and such. I saddens me to think of all the great art, literature, music, etc that has been lost due to the destruction of wars, the censorship of governments, dictators, religions, etc.

 

[mooglemania85]

linky

Oops, that's the future.

So it's just joo, at least until 2019.

 

[NanoStuff]

Does anyone else feel really sad or feel a great loss at such a thing

Nope, that's technological evolution for you. A tree is nothing compared to the economic prosperity a strip mall will bring in it's place. That's exactly what we need to ultimately fix the planet, even if it seems counter intuitive.

 

[Flyback]

You've always got the memory of the place. In fact, that is probably the better of the two--because memories have emotions attached.

I've gone back to see places that were "magical" in my mind only to find out the expected adoration was not to be found and that memories of why it meant something to you are far richer.

That isn't to say it is a useless exercise, though.

 

[novasatori]

that's why you make sure your favorite places are major national parks

 

[Kadarin]

I was born in and live in Silicon Valley, and have been here since before it was called that. I remember orchards and not so much traffic; a time when San Jose had less than 400,000 people, when Milpitas was considered to be out in the boondocks.

So yeah, in a small way I do understand what you're talking about.

 

[dugweb]

Originally posted by: pontifex
I'm reading the first autobiography of a man who was born in 1878 and died in 1957 and this is what got me thinking about this. Sometimes when he speaks of places from his childhood he also mentions how they've changed since then.

I'm a sucker for a beautiful landscape. Sometimes the natural beauty of a place just makes me feel really emotional. I don't really know how to describe it.

So you see (maybe as a child) this really beautiful wooded area and you have lots of great memories about it. 30 years down the road, it becomes a strip mall or a housing development.

Does anyone else feel really sad or feel a great loss at such a thing or am I one of the few who feels this way? It then makes me think of all the places that used to be wonderful that no one will ever see again, and even the places that will be gone in the future.

I feel the same way about things that have been lost due to wars and such. I saddens me to think of all the great art, literature, music, etc that has been lost due to the destruction of wars, the censorship of governments, dictators, religions, etc.

very well put. I know exactly how you feel, although I do think that our minds tend to embellish how nice or beautiful we remember childhood places it still can make me sad to think they'll never be the same as I once remembered them

The two things that really get me are traffic, and power lines. I'm sure it's just because I wasn't paying as much attention to it as a kid, but it just seems like there are too many cars on the road these days! All day, every day the roads are packed. It's ridiculous.

And I'm convinced that powerlines alone have destroyed more views of nature than anything else. You can hardly look anywhere anymore without having a random black line streaking through a portion of it. Even in an urban environment, if you mentally remove the powerlines it can really make an otherwise ghetto looking area look really nice.
(but I like being able to turn the lights on so I guess I can live with this )

 

[Furyline]

Yes I feel the same way about nature. I live outside of a growing town, and every year there are more wooded areas being replaced by housing developments. I'm at school now, but it always brings me down when I drive home and see an area that was all woods when I was growing up is now suddenly a bunch of dirt & bulldozers.
Maybe it is just nostalgia and not the natural beauty of it, as I feel similar when I see an old cottage torn down to put in a huge block of a house taking up every sq ft of the property

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: NanoStuff

Does anyone else feel really sad or feel a great loss at such a thing

Nope, that's technological evolution for you. A tree is nothing compared to the economic prosperity a strip mall will bring in it's place. That's exactly what we need to ultimately fix the planet, even if it seems counter intuitive.

Fix the...planet? Don't you mean "support an ever-denser human population"? The planet wasn't broken when we got here.

Personally I think that if it were possible, a stable, slow-growing population much smaller than our own would make for a better average quality of life and longer-term survival chances than our current setup.

But I grew up here.

...and yes, the road came in about a decade ago, and now there's talk of strip mines in our area. Frankly, I am willing to do without a few luxury items and spend a little bit more energy recycling the vast amounts of metal we already have before despoiling a place like that.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: Furyline
Yes I feel the same way about nature. I live outside of a growing town, and every year there are more wooded areas being replaced by housing developments. I'm at school now, but it always brings me down when I drive home and see an area that was all woods when I was growing up is now suddenly a bunch of dirt & bulldozers.
Maybe it is just nostalgia and not the natural beauty of it, as I feel similar when I see an old cottage torn down to put in a huge block of a house taking up every sq ft of the property

What really gets me is new housing developments in semi-rural areas. Even though they have all this land, they still cram houses together with little to no yards.

 

[NanoStuff]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: NanoStuff

Does anyone else feel really sad or feel a great loss at such a thing

Nope, that's technological evolution for you. A tree is nothing compared to the economic prosperity a strip mall will bring in it's place. That's exactly what we need to ultimately fix the planet, even if it seems counter intuitive.

Fix the...planet? Don't you mean "support an ever-denser human population"? The planet wasn't broken when we got here.

Personally I think that if it were possible, a stable, slow-growing population much smaller than our own would make for a better average quality of life and longer-term survival chances than our current setup.

But I grew up here.

...and yes, the road came in about a decade ago, and now there's talk of strip mines in our area. Frankly, I am willing to do without a few luxury items and spend a little bit more energy recycling the vast amounts of metal we already have before despoiling a place like that.

Wasn't broken, but we broke it. In order to make things right again there's no going back to nature but overcoming it with technology. Artificially limiting supplies would cause conflict and instability, compromising the economy and thus technological progress. Such progress allows for increasingly more efficient use of resources, but requires resources. Eventually there's a tipping point of abundance, this is where we have to get.

 

[Auric]

I concur, pontifex.

 

[Oceandevi]

Originally posted by: NanoStuff

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: NanoStuff

Does anyone else feel really sad or feel a great loss at such a thing

Nope, that's technological evolution for you. A tree is nothing compared to the economic prosperity a strip mall will bring in it's place. That's exactly what we need to ultimately fix the planet, even if it seems counter intuitive.

Fix the...planet? Don't you mean "support an ever-denser human population"? The planet wasn't broken when we got here.

Personally I think that if it were possible, a stable, slow-growing population much smaller than our own would make for a better average quality of life and longer-term survival chances than our current setup.

But I grew up here.

...and yes, the road came in about a decade ago, and now there's talk of strip mines in our area. Frankly, I am willing to do without a few luxury items and spend a little bit more energy recycling the vast amounts of metal we already have before despoiling a place like that.

Wasn't broken, but we broke it. In order to make things right again there's no going back to nature but overcoming it with technology. Artificially limiting supplies would cause conflict and instability, compromising the economy and thus technological progress. Such progress allows for increasingly more efficient use of resources, but requires resources. Eventually there's a tipping point of abundance, this is where we have to get.

Thats a fucking gamble and you know it. We will most likely crash and burn and take the ecology with us.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: pontifex
I'm reading the first autobiography of a man who was born in 1878 and died in 1957 and this is what got me thinking about this. Sometimes when he speaks of places from his childhood he also mentions how they've changed since then.

I'm a sucker for a beautiful landscape. Sometimes the natural beauty of a place just makes me feel really emotional. I don't really know how to describe it.

So you see (maybe as a child) this really beautiful wooded area and you have lots of great memories about it. 30 years down the road, it becomes a strip mall or a housing development.

Does anyone else feel really sad or feel a great loss at such a thing or am I one of the few who feels this way? It then makes me think of all the places that used to be wonderful that no one will ever see again, and even the places that will be gone in the future.

I feel the same way about things that have been lost due to wars and such. I saddens me to think of all the great art, literature, music, etc that has been lost due to the destruction of wars, the censorship of governments, dictators, religions, etc.

I'd like to see less urban sprawl in this country. We are wasting our resources and our space and the more we expand out the more we waste...it's self perpetuating.

 

[NanoStuff]

Originally posted by: Oceandevi
Thats a fucking gamble and you know it. We will most likely crash and burn and take the ecology with us.

Sure is, but it's the only shot we've got. There's a number of finite natural resources that we must become independent of before they run out. If we somehow restricted developing countries from resources they need to develop, they will never develop thus never escape their inefficiency. Not like your efforts of stopping the US from burning 20 million barrels of oil daily or exploiting pacific fishing grounds will succeed anyways, so get comfortable for the ride. Either crash and burn or sustainable utopia by the end of the century, no middle ground.

 

[Oceandevi]

Originally posted by: NanoStuff

Originally posted by: Oceandevi
Thats a fucking gamble and you know it. We will most likely crash and burn and take the ecology with us.

Sure is, but it's the only shot we've got. There's a number of finite natural resources that we must become independent of before they run out. If we somehow restricted developing countries from resources they need to develop, they will never develop thus never escape their inefficiency. Not like your efforts of stopping the US from burning 20 million barrels of oil daily or exploiting pacific fishing grounds will succeed anyways, so get comfortable for the ride. Either crash and burn or sustainable utopia by the end of the century, no middle ground.

It is not my effort. The ball is rolling and I can do nothing to stop it. A middle ground could be worse. It lets us stay comfortable while we mess things up more. I don't see what developing countries have to do with this. The topic was native lands. And they are backwards because they try to be something they are not. They need to farm and educate and develop ... slowly and with great stability. Otherwise the money flows fast, guns are bought and someone hits the reset button. And they need to stop taking loans from countries like the US. And we should stop sending them food.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: dugweb

And I'm convinced that powerlines alone have destroyed more views of nature than anything else.

You can hardly look anywhere anymore without having a random black line streaking through a portion of it.

Not to worry. In the not to distant future many of those lines will be coming down.

As more and more people cannot afford electricity, utilities will begin to go bankrupt.

 

[meltdown75]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: dugweb

And I'm convinced that powerlines alone have destroyed more views of nature than anything else.

You can hardly look anywhere anymore without having a random black line streaking through a portion of it.

Not to worry. In the not to distant future many of those lines will be coming down.

As more and more people cannot afford electricity, utilities will begin to go bankrupt.

:laugh:

 

[ppdes]

I feel the opposite. Undeveloped land feels like a waste. Resources aren't finite anyway, just tougher to get (other planets, other solar systems, etc.).

 

[Oceandevi]

Originally posted by: ppdes
I feel the opposite. Undeveloped land feels like a waste. Resources aren't finite anyway, just tougher to get (other planets, other solar systems, etc.).

People like you scare me. Concrete makes you feel all warm inside.