The case for Obama and the Case against Clinton

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: RY62
I think this thread actually answers many questions about who Obama is and why he's been pushed to the front.

Obama was, until recently, an unknown with little or no known, negative baggage and no solid issue positions. Hillary, on the other hand, represented most of the positions the Dems were looking for but had been under attack from the right for many years and therefore carried high negatives. I believe a plan was concocted to take all of the good points that Hillary brought to the table and project them onto the unknown candidate in an attempt to push the agenda without facing the battle. Whether or not that was a good idea remains to be seen. Because he appears to be a manufactured candidate, some see him as an "empty suit". Because he was unknown, we have to hope he has no negative baggage to surprise us before the GE.

And I think you're really reaching here. Just because Obama and Clinton are both similarly aligned with the general traits of the Democratic Party doesn't mean Obama is a 'better looking' Clinton clone. If you think Obama is being 'pushed to the front' by the party then why haven't the SD's finished this thing without the unnecessary bickering back and forth?

Maybe a large portion of the party, just like a large portion of Dems in general, would rather have the real candidate, with all of her faults, than the manufactured image of what the candidate should be.

You could be right and I might be a just bit crazy but my gut tells me something isn't quite right with Obama. I, like most of Clintons base, am a little older than most of Obama's base. I've been around for a while, and for sure I can be a little cynical, so when I look at Obama and listen to the hype it just feels fake. It's like someone is going to great lengths to sell us on the idea that the Messiah has come to save us. They want us to believe he's all the good without any of the bad. Maybe he is but it's going to take alot more than just a few pretty speaches and a well polished package to convince me.

IF he is "so good" and so skilled

WtF hasn't he united the party - or at the very least shut Hillary Up?
- i think this demonstrates it is not his "time" and he will have much more trouble with McLame's rabid Right - that has Zero Problem with calling him "anti-Christ" and whipping Racial Tension into a Frenzy.

Figure it out .. he should be the Clear Front-runner of his Own Party - long ago .. he is Not and he is taking damage right now and it will get worse ..
.. much worse

 

[RY62]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: RY62
I think this thread actually answers many questions about who Obama is and why he's been pushed to the front.

Obama was, until recently, an unknown with little or no known, negative baggage and no solid issue positions. Hillary, on the other hand, represented most of the positions the Dems were looking for but had been under attack from the right for many years and therefore carried high negatives. I believe a plan was concocted to take all of the good points that Hillary brought to the table and project them onto the unknown candidate in an attempt to push the agenda without facing the battle. Whether or not that was a good idea remains to be seen. Because he appears to be a manufactured candidate, some see him as an "empty suit". Because he was unknown, we have to hope he has no negative baggage to surprise us before the GE.

And I think you're really reaching here. Just because Obama and Clinton are both similarly aligned with the general traits of the Democratic Party doesn't mean Obama is a 'better looking' Clinton clone. If you think Obama is being 'pushed to the front' by the party then why haven't the SD's finished this thing without the unnecessary bickering back and forth?

Maybe a large portion of the party, just like a large portion of Dems in general, would rather have the real candidate, with all of her faults, than the manufactured image of what the candidate should be.

You could be right and I might be a just bit crazy but my gut tells me something isn't quite right with Obama. I, like most of Clintons base, am a little older than most of Obama's base. I've been around for a while, and for sure I can be a little cynical, so when I look at Obama and listen to the hype it just feels fake. It's like someone is going to great lengths to sell us on the idea that the Messiah has come to save us. They want us to believe he's all the good without any of the bad. Maybe he is but it's going to take alot more than just a few pretty speaches and a well polished package to convince me.

IF he is "so good" and so skilled

WtF hasn't he united the party - or at the very least shut Hillary Up?
- i think this demonstrates it is not his "time" and he will have much more trouble with McLame's rabid Right - that has Zero Problem with calling him "anti-Christ" and whipping Racial Tension into a Frenzy.

Figure it out .. he should be the Clear Front-runner of his Own Party - long ago .. he is Not and he is taking damage right now and it will get worse ..
.. much worse

You don't need to try and convince me, I agree with you 100%. I think he should have taken the VP offer. If he really is all he would have us believe, it would have given us time to find out and get comfortable that it isn't just a con job.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: RY62
I think this thread actually answers many questions about who Obama is and why he's been pushed to the front.

Obama was, until recently, an unknown with little or no known, negative baggage and no solid issue positions. Hillary, on the other hand, represented most of the positions the Dems were looking for but had been under attack from the right for many years and therefore carried high negatives. I believe a plan was concocted to take all of the good points that Hillary brought to the table and project them onto the unknown candidate in an attempt to push the agenda without facing the battle. Whether or not that was a good idea remains to be seen. Because he appears to be a manufactured candidate, some see him as an "empty suit". Because he was unknown, we have to hope he has no negative baggage to surprise us before the GE.

And I think you're really reaching here. Just because Obama and Clinton are both similarly aligned with the general traits of the Democratic Party doesn't mean Obama is a 'better looking' Clinton clone. If you think Obama is being 'pushed to the front' by the party then why haven't the SD's finished this thing without the unnecessary bickering back and forth?

Maybe a large portion of the party, just like a large portion of Dems in general, would rather have the real candidate, with all of her faults, than the manufactured image of what the candidate should be.

You could be right and I might be a just bit crazy but my gut tells me something isn't quite right with Obama. I, like most of Clintons base, am a little older than most of Obama's base. I've been around for a while, and for sure I can be a little cynical, so when I look at Obama and listen to the hype it just feels fake. It's like someone is going to great lengths to sell us on the idea that the Messiah has come to save us. They want us to believe he's all the good without any of the bad. Maybe he is but it's going to take alot more than just a few pretty speaches and a well polished package to convince me.

IF he is "so good" and so skilled

WtF hasn't he united the party - or at the very least shut Hillary Up?
- i think this demonstrates it is not his "time" and he will have much more trouble with McLame's rabid Right - that has Zero Problem with calling him "anti-Christ" and whipping Racial Tension into a Frenzy.

Figure it out .. he should be the Clear Front-runner of his Own Party - long ago .. he is Not and he is taking damage right now and it will get worse ..
.. much worse

You don't need to try and convince me, I agree with you 100%. I think he should have taken the VP offer. If he really is all he would have us believe, it would have given us time to find out and get comfortable that it isn't just a con job.

i am sorry .. i am pretty new again [back to] P&N
- i guess i am preaching to the Choir

Obama can still Unite the Dems .. Hillary has Zero chance by herself .. he has almost No chance by himself .. what does Logic Dictate?

Unite against a Common Enemy - or Die

damn simple .. and the above is not for you, RY62 .. i am just using the Platform i am afforded here to keep at it till all the Dems figure it out > 16 years of a Democratic Presidency - Guaranteed, or your money back!

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Fair and balanced, I did it in alphabetical order.

LMAO :laugh:

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: RY62
I think this thread actually answers many questions about who Obama is and why he's been pushed to the front.

Obama was, until recently, an unknown with little or no known, negative baggage and no solid issue positions. Hillary, on the other hand, represented most of the positions the Dems were looking for but had been under attack from the right for many years and therefore carried high negatives. I believe a plan was concocted to take all of the good points that Hillary brought to the table and project them onto the unknown candidate in an attempt to push the agenda without facing the battle. Whether or not that was a good idea remains to be seen. Because he appears to be a manufactured candidate, some see him as an "empty suit". Because he was unknown, we have to hope he has no negative baggage to surprise us before the GE.

And I think you're really reaching here. Just because Obama and Clinton are both similarly aligned with the general traits of the Democratic Party doesn't mean Obama is a 'better looking' Clinton clone. If you think Obama is being 'pushed to the front' by the party then why haven't the SD's finished this thing without the unnecessary bickering back and forth?

The force pushing Obama is the evolution of human consciousness. Humanity is leaving the worm for flight.

Let there be light, on earth, as it is in heaven.

except there is not light .. the real light here is being cast aside by you as an illusion because of your misunderstood, mistimed and wrongly hopeful vision.

a Truly Great Leader in the Mold of JFK or MLK would UNITE his party - now matter the personal costs or effort. If he was truly the Visionary that you make him to Be, the Democrats would ALREADY be solidly united behind Him

Yet they are not united .. i offer proof in their continued bickering and loss of momentum to McLame and the Reps. You still deny that the Churches will be Preaching Obama is the AntiChrist and that racial tensions will be at their Highest Level in many years. The Republicans understand that they cannot lose - they are backed into a corner and fighting Dirty for their Party and their Very Existence - even if Most of the Dems are truly clueless about the Importance of this Election
-- all i hear is empty promises and a dark light of unreality blocking real progress and an inability to even grasp the real issues of Who the Real Enemy is - and She is not named Hillary

i am Sorry to bring you Sad Tidings of a Great Sorrow - the Darkness has reached into Heaven itself ... and all is not well even in the Tower

Nothing can stand against the will of God.

This train is a-bound for glory, this train.
This train is a-bound for glory, this train.
This train is a-bound for glory,
If you ride on it, you must be holy.
This train is a-bound for glory, this train.
This train don't carry no gamblers, this train.
This train don't carry no gamblers, this train.
This train don't carry no gamblers,
Two-bit whores an' midnight ramblers.
This train is a-bound for glory, this train.

This train don't carry no extras, this train.
This train don't carry no extras, this train.
This train don't carry no extras,
Don't carry nothin' but the level an' special [?].
This train is a-bound for glory, this train.

This train don't pull no jokers, this train.
This train don't pull no jokers, this train.
This train don't pull no jokers, no... cigarette smokers.
This train is a-bound for glory, this train.

This train is a-bound for glory, this train.
This train is a-bound for glory, this train.
If you ride it, you must be holy.
This train is a-bound for glory, this train.

 

[apoppin]

You didn't hear the news?
--Since the 60s no one can still seem to actually find Him
- hence the tabloid rumors of His demise

Your train may be delayed indefinitely at the station IF you don't get off your OWN butt and do something instead of just singing moldy old inspirational songs like Obama .. as nice as the thoughts may be it is no longer practically fits in with the reality of our current altered situation.
:music:

Your own prophecies you choose to ignore predict that someone will stand up successfully

 

[Painman]

Man, some of you people seem to have short memories.

What about Mondale Vs. Hart in '84? What about the mess in '68?

2004 was an anomaly - the Dem party was united against GWB.

The Dems are back to Business as Usual. The "Herding Cats" metaphor exists for a reason.

It's not really a strike against Obama that he hasn't managed to "unite the party". Neither has Clinton, obviously. Either one has their intra-party work cut out for them should they gain the nomination.

I'm not too emotionally wrapped up in this nomination process. I'll vote for the Dem nominee, whoever they are, though I do lean towards Obama as I think his grassroots approach is better for the long term prosperity of the Dem party overall. The Clintons are notorious for being short-term strategizers (see 1994, Republican Revolution and Newt Gingrich).

That's not the only reason; it's simply the one that I decided to mention for now.

McCain should be lauded for his service and sacrifice to this nation, but 5 years in a POW camp does not a CinC make. He's clueless, he's confused (at best) about the reality on the ground in Iraq and the factions involved, or attempting to conflate (at worst) the sinister intentions of Shia and Sunni forces within the conflict. Worst of all, he seems to think that the Muslim world will happily accept long term US troop presence within its midst as if it's just another Germany or South Korea. Did I mention clueless?

Any Dem thinking about voting for McCain, should your preference of Dem candidate not receive the Nom, needs to think long and hard about whose finger you are putting on top of the Big Red Button.

If McCain doesn't scare the mother loving shit out of you, then you're too emotionally wrapped up around your candidate, not paying enough attention to him, or both.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: apoppin
You didn't hear the news?
--Since the 60s no one can still seem to actually find Him
- hence the tabloid rumors of His demise

Your train may be delayed indefinitely at the station IF you don't get off your OWN butt and do something instead of just singing moldy old inspirational songs like Obama .. as nice as the thoughts may be it is no longer practically fits in with the reality of our current altered situation.
:music:

Your own prophecies you choose to ignore predict that someone will stand up successfully

You hold assumptions I do not share. I am not interested in what is good for a party. Democrats, like spineless worms, voted for the war. I voted against my democratic Congressman who did and will vote against my Senators too. All three are Democrat traitors. Scum ball Democrats can rot in hell. Those cowardly bastards were afraid of being kicked out of office if they didn't vote for the war.

I do not believe that the party is destroying itself because of the split between Obama and Clinton. I think either Democrat can beat McCain or that either of them can lose. Let the one that wins the contest be the one to face McCain. The one the Democrats elect to run will make the best candidate. In 8 years there may be somebody better than either of them to run then.

Your view is rational only given your assumptions. I and millions of others do not share them and see no real reason in what you say. You simply have opinions and I have ones I more prefer. I am unpersuaded and I think my candidate will win win win. I want change now.

Also, I don't understand this:

"Your own prophecies you choose to ignore predict that someone will stand up successfully [/quote]"

 

[Starbuck1975]

IF he is "so good" and so skilled

WtF hasn't he united the party - or at the very least shut Hillary Up?
- i think this demonstrates it is not his "time" and he will have much more trouble with McLame's rabid Right - that has Zero Problem with calling him "anti-Christ" and whipping Racial Tension into a Frenzy.

Figure it out .. he should be the Clear Front-runner of his Own Party - long ago .. he is Not and he is taking damage right now and it will get worse ..
.. much worse

Perhaps the rise of Obama can be attributed to the notion that Hillary was the assumed frontrunner and nominee, but many Democrats had buyers remorse on that decision, and Obama presented a viable alternative.

That Obama managed to not only challenge but overcome Hillary's assumed lead is a fairly striking condemnation against her as a candidate by her own party.

 

[Rio Rebel]

I reject AND denounce Hillary.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: apoppin
You didn't hear the news?
--Since the 60s no one can still seem to actually find Him
- hence the tabloid rumors of His demise

Your train may be delayed indefinitely at the station IF you don't get off your OWN butt and do something instead of just singing moldy old inspirational songs like Obama .. as nice as the thoughts may be it is no longer practically fits in with the reality of our current altered situation.
:music:

Your own prophecies you choose to ignore predict that someone will stand up successfully

You hold assumptions I do not share. I am not interested in what is good for a party. Democrats, like spineless worms, voted for the war. I voted against my democratic Congressman who did and will vote against my Senators too. All three are Democrat traitors. Scum ball Democrats can rot in hell. Those cowardly bastards were afraid of being kicked out of office if they didn't vote for the war.

I do not believe that the party is destroying itself because of the split between Obama and Clinton. I think either Democrat can beat McCain or that either of them can lose. Let the one that wins the contest be the one to face McCain. The one the Democrats elect to run will make the best candidate. In 8 years there may be somebody better than either of them to run then.

Your view is rational only given your assumptions. I and millions of others do not share them and see no real reason in what you say. You simply have opinions and I have ones I more prefer. I am unpersuaded and I think my candidate will win win win. I want change now.

Also, I don't understand this:

"Your own prophecies you choose to ignore predict that someone will stand up successfully

"[/quote]

i know you don't ... i will be glad to educate you from your own original writings

UNLESS Obama is actually Directed and Guided by Your God like Bush is by His - he is dead meat. The Extreme Right Churches are already saying it is a Sin to vote Democratic - they will call Obama the "AntiChrist" - i am certain of their whispering; the race card is in "reserve" - and unless he really is, he will fail. Your "vision" is badly mistimed and i am here to tell you about it.

Of course My "view is rational only given My assumptions" as is yours and you also assume your vision is a true one. There are many visions but the correct interpretation with applied understanding is the key to all of them.

Again, i don't give a Crap about Hillary - except it is TOO LATE to Shut Her Up and it is going to the Super Delegates - where it will become Ugly and McLame will be able to point to the Disunity in His Favor and his extreme Right takes it form there. McLame Wins.

Here is your Problem that points to the falseness of your vision's interpretation. IF Obama were Really Guided or "fated" to be President - the Republicans would not be preparing for a Last Ditch War [unknown to the Democrats] - AND, Most Importantly, Obama would have already - by now- shown himself to be a Great Leader. He is NOT a great leader even yet like JFK or MLK for he cannot UNITE his OWN party - that is a SIMPLE task compared to uniting America and the World. Unless he is like me, "very last minute" - i know manufactured when i see it and it is BAD PR! Obama is not "for real" or has not grown sufficiently.

What is so hard for you to grasp about this truism?:

United We Stand - Divided We Fall

The Dems are Divided and Obama will Fall because of it
--Sh!t strategy and crap long-range "planning" coupled with blinded by "destiny" talk among his sheepies will do him in - His own followers will turn Traitor like has happened long before.

 

[piasabird]

Obama and Michelle - Both Lawyers

Hillary and Bill Clinton - Both Lawyers

Both candidates suck.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: piasabird
Obama and Michelle - Both Lawyers

Hillary and Bill Clinton - Both Lawyers

Both candidates suck.

Again, 35 of the 55 founding fathers? Lawyers. bastards one and all.

 

[extra]

Obama is a much much stronger bet than Clinton. Everyone talks about how similar they are on policies and that Obama is all talk, people just like him because he's a good speaker, they don't like him because of facts, they like him because he "inspires them", etc.

Good. On the surface this sounds like a bad thing. It isn't. It is a the reason that Obama will make a much much stronger president than Hillary could hope to be. As sad as this is, it is the factual reality at the moment. I will explain why:

The reason for this is that because his ability his ability to inspire people will DRASTICALLY increase his ability to get his policies done vs. what Hillary would be able to do. I am NOT confident that the senate will be filibuster proof. I'm not even sure we want it to be. One party in charge of everything is not a good idea. Obama's ability to inspire the people means he will be able to exert a ton of pressure on representatives. He will be able to get bills he wants passed through. His ability to inspire the average American means that senators and congressmen will be hesitant to try to block important things that need to get done (health care for example).

They would not be nearly as hesitant to block Hillary from accomplishing anything.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: apoppin
You didn't hear the news?
--Since the 60s no one can still seem to actually find Him
- hence the tabloid rumors of His demise

Your train may be delayed indefinitely at the station IF you don't get off your OWN butt and do something instead of just singing moldy old inspirational songs like Obama .. as nice as the thoughts may be it is no longer practically fits in with the reality of our current altered situation.
:music:

Your own prophecies you choose to ignore predict that someone will stand up successfully

You hold assumptions I do not share. I am not interested in what is good for a party. Democrats, like spineless worms, voted for the war. I voted against my democratic Congressman who did and will vote against my Senators too. All three are Democrat traitors. Scum ball Democrats can rot in hell. Those cowardly bastards were afraid of being kicked out of office if they didn't vote for the war.

I do not believe that the party is destroying itself because of the split between Obama and Clinton. I think either Democrat can beat McCain or that either of them can lose. Let the one that wins the contest be the one to face McCain. The one the Democrats elect to run will make the best candidate. In 8 years there may be somebody better than either of them to run then.

Your view is rational only given your assumptions. I and millions of others do not share them and see no real reason in what you say. You simply have opinions and I have ones I more prefer. I am unpersuaded and I think my candidate will win win win. I want change now.

Also, I don't understand this:

"Your own prophecies you choose to ignore predict that someone will stand up successfully

"

i know you don't ... i will be glad to educate you from your own original writings

UNLESS Obama is actually Directed and Guided by Your God like Bush is by His - he is dead meat. The Extreme Right Churches are already saying it is a Sin to vote Democratic - they will call Obama the "AntiChrist" - i am certain of their whispering; the race card is in "reserve" - and unless he really is, he will fail. Your "vision" is badly mistimed and i am here to tell you about it.

Of course My "view is rational only given My assumptions" as is yours and you also assume your vision is a true one. There are many visions but the correct interpretation with applied understanding is the key to all of them.

Again, i don't give a Crap about Hillary - except it is TOO LATE to Shut Her Up and it is going to the Super Delegates - where it will become Ugly and McLame will be able to point to the Disunity in His Favor and his extreme Right takes it form there. McLame Wins.

Here is your Problem that points to the falseness of your vision's interpretation. IF Obama were Really Guided or "fated" to be President - the Republicans would not be preparing for a Last Ditch War [unknown to the Democrats] - AND, Most Importantly, Obama would have already - by now- shown himself to be a Great Leader. He is NOT a great leader even yet like JFK or MLK for he cannot UNITE his OWN party - that is a SIMPLE task compared to uniting America and the World. Unless he is like me, "very last minute" - i know manufactured when i see it and it is BAD PR! Obama is not "for real" or has not grown sufficiently.

What is so hard for you to grasp about this truism?:

United We Stand - Divided We Fall

The Dems are Divided and Obama will Fall because of it
--Sh!t strategy and crap long-range "planning" coupled with blinded by "destiny" talk among his sheepies will do him in - His own followers will turn Traitor like has happened long before.
[/quote]

The destiny of a larva is to become a butterfly. What part of metamorphosis and the Will of God do you not understand. The Apple Bonkers, the Blue Meanies, and Little Glovey have gotten to you.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: apoppin
You didn't hear the news?
--Since the 60s no one can still seem to actually find Him
- hence the tabloid rumors of His demise

Your train may be delayed indefinitely at the station IF you don't get off your OWN butt and do something instead of just singing moldy old inspirational songs like Obama .. as nice as the thoughts may be it is no longer practically fits in with the reality of our current altered situation.
:music:

Your own prophecies you choose to ignore predict that someone will stand up successfully

You hold assumptions I do not share. I am not interested in what is good for a party. Democrats, like spineless worms, voted for the war. I voted against my democratic Congressman who did and will vote against my Senators too. All three are Democrat traitors. Scum ball Democrats can rot in hell. Those cowardly bastards were afraid of being kicked out of office if they didn't vote for the war.

I do not believe that the party is destroying itself because of the split between Obama and Clinton. I think either Democrat can beat McCain or that either of them can lose. Let the one that wins the contest be the one to face McCain. The one the Democrats elect to run will make the best candidate. In 8 years there may be somebody better than either of them to run then.

Your view is rational only given your assumptions. I and millions of others do not share them and see no real reason in what you say. You simply have opinions and I have ones I more prefer. I am unpersuaded and I think my candidate will win win win. I want change now.

Also, I don't understand this:

"Your own prophecies you choose to ignore predict that someone will stand up successfully

"

i know you don't ... i will be glad to educate you from your own original writings

UNLESS Obama is actually Directed and Guided by Your God like Bush is by His - he is dead meat. The Extreme Right Churches are already saying it is a Sin to vote Democratic - they will call Obama the "AntiChrist" - i am certain of their whispering; the race card is in "reserve" - and unless he really is, he will fail. Your "vision" is badly mistimed and i am here to tell you about it.

Of course My "view is rational only given My assumptions" as is yours and you also assume your vision is a true one. There are many visions but the correct interpretation with applied understanding is the key to all of them.

Again, i don't give a Crap about Hillary - except it is TOO LATE to Shut Her Up and it is going to the Super Delegates - where it will become Ugly and McLame will be able to point to the Disunity in His Favor and his extreme Right takes it form there. McLame Wins.

Here is your Problem that points to the falseness of your vision's interpretation. IF Obama were Really Guided or "fated" to be President - the Republicans would not be preparing for a Last Ditch War [unknown to the Democrats] - AND, Most Importantly, Obama would have already - by now- shown himself to be a Great Leader. He is NOT a great leader even yet like JFK or MLK for he cannot UNITE his OWN party - that is a SIMPLE task compared to uniting America and the World. Unless he is like me, "very last minute" - i know manufactured when i see it and it is BAD PR! Obama is not "for real" or has not grown sufficiently.

What is so hard for you to grasp about this truism?:

United We Stand - Divided We Fall

The Dems are Divided and Obama will Fall because of it
--Sh!t strategy and crap long-range "planning" coupled with blinded by "destiny" talk among his sheepies will do him in - His own followers will turn Traitor like has happened long before.

The destiny of a larva is to become a butterfly. What part of metamorphosis and the Will of God do you not understand. The Apple Bonkers, the Blue Meanies, and Little Glovey have gotten to you.

Your metamorphosis can be easily interrupted - splat! - and the individual dies even if the species may continue. Perhaps you don't understand - a single individual is not "planned" but is part of a Purpose ... the Will of Man has Confounded God Purpose once before and He was amazed by the complexity of his own developing creation.

and of course, the question:

Which God?
-there are a multitude of gods as the Christian and Jewish holy books acknowledge

i am immune to those forces you mention so that is not the silly reason that keeps me from agreeing with you. Your faith is misplaced and your vision subject to interpretation and doubt.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: apoppin
You didn't hear the news?
--Since the 60s no one can still seem to actually find Him
- hence the tabloid rumors of His demise

Your train may be delayed indefinitely at the station IF you don't get off your OWN butt and do something instead of just singing moldy old inspirational songs like Obama .. as nice as the thoughts may be it is no longer practically fits in with the reality of our current altered situation.
:music:

Your own prophecies you choose to ignore predict that someone will stand up successfully

You hold assumptions I do not share. I am not interested in what is good for a party. Democrats, like spineless worms, voted for the war. I voted against my democratic Congressman who did and will vote against my Senators too. All three are Democrat traitors. Scum ball Democrats can rot in hell. Those cowardly bastards were afraid of being kicked out of office if they didn't vote for the war.

I do not believe that the party is destroying itself because of the split between Obama and Clinton. I think either Democrat can beat McCain or that either of them can lose. Let the one that wins the contest be the one to face McCain. The one the Democrats elect to run will make the best candidate. In 8 years there may be somebody better than either of them to run then.

Your view is rational only given your assumptions. I and millions of others do not share them and see no real reason in what you say. You simply have opinions and I have ones I more prefer. I am unpersuaded and I think my candidate will win win win. I want change now.

Also, I don't understand this:

"Your own prophecies you choose to ignore predict that someone will stand up successfully

"

i know you don't ... i will be glad to educate you from your own original writings

UNLESS Obama is actually Directed and Guided by Your God like Bush is by His - he is dead meat. The Extreme Right Churches are already saying it is a Sin to vote Democratic - they will call Obama the "AntiChrist" - i am certain of their whispering; the race card is in "reserve" - and unless he really is, he will fail. Your "vision" is badly mistimed and i am here to tell you about it.

Of course My "view is rational only given My assumptions" as is yours and you also assume your vision is a true one. There are many visions but the correct interpretation with applied understanding is the key to all of them.

Again, i don't give a Crap about Hillary - except it is TOO LATE to Shut Her Up and it is going to the Super Delegates - where it will become Ugly and McLame will be able to point to the Disunity in His Favor and his extreme Right takes it form there. McLame Wins.

Here is your Problem that points to the falseness of your vision's interpretation. IF Obama were Really Guided or "fated" to be President - the Republicans would not be preparing for a Last Ditch War [unknown to the Democrats] - AND, Most Importantly, Obama would have already - by now- shown himself to be a Great Leader. He is NOT a great leader even yet like JFK or MLK for he cannot UNITE his OWN party - that is a SIMPLE task compared to uniting America and the World. Unless he is like me, "very last minute" - i know manufactured when i see it and it is BAD PR! Obama is not "for real" or has not grown sufficiently.

What is so hard for you to grasp about this truism?:

United We Stand - Divided We Fall

The Dems are Divided and Obama will Fall because of it
--Sh!t strategy and crap long-range "planning" coupled with blinded by "destiny" talk among his sheepies will do him in - His own followers will turn Traitor like has happened long before.

The destiny of a larva is to become a butterfly. What part of metamorphosis and the Will of God do you not understand. The Apple Bonkers, the Blue Meanies, and Little Glovey have gotten to you.

Your metamorphosis can be easily interrupted - splat! - and the individual dies even if the species may continue. Perhaps you don't understand - a single individual is not "planned" but is part of a Purpose ... the Will of Man has Confounded God Purpose once before and He was amazed by the complexity of his own developing creation.

and of course, the question:

Which God?
-there are a multitude of gods as the Christian and Jewish holy books acknowledge

i am immune to those forces you mention so that is not the silly reason that keeps me from agreeing with you. Your faith is misplaced and your vision subject to interpretation and doubt.

My faith is in me and in my vision. Obama can fail to live up to what I believe and if he does it will not matter. He is only a person but one I put my faith in. Do you think I can be hurt if I'm disappointed. The only thing that will disappoint me is if I don't live up to my own beliefs and opinions. I put my faith in Obama because like calls to like, and that's what I think I'm hearing. I will honor my opinion and if he does not, so what. My faith and my vision can't die. Once The Nothing held me in its grip of death and now I'm alive. There is only God's Will and it has never been confounded because it is the inexorable march of cause and effect laid down through time. Everything is exactly as it must be.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: apoppin
You didn't hear the news?
--Since the 60s no one can still seem to actually find Him
- hence the tabloid rumors of His demise

Your train may be delayed indefinitely at the station IF you don't get off your OWN butt and do something instead of just singing moldy old inspirational songs like Obama .. as nice as the thoughts may be it is no longer practically fits in with the reality of our current altered situation.
:music:

Your own prophecies you choose to ignore predict that someone will stand up successfully

You hold assumptions I do not share. I am not interested in what is good for a party. Democrats, like spineless worms, voted for the war. I voted against my democratic Congressman who did and will vote against my Senators too. All three are Democrat traitors. Scum ball Democrats can rot in hell. Those cowardly bastards were afraid of being kicked out of office if they didn't vote for the war.

I do not believe that the party is destroying itself because of the split between Obama and Clinton. I think either Democrat can beat McCain or that either of them can lose. Let the one that wins the contest be the one to face McCain. The one the Democrats elect to run will make the best candidate. In 8 years there may be somebody better than either of them to run then.

Your view is rational only given your assumptions. I and millions of others do not share them and see no real reason in what you say. You simply have opinions and I have ones I more prefer. I am unpersuaded and I think my candidate will win win win. I want change now.

Also, I don't understand this:

"Your own prophecies you choose to ignore predict that someone will stand up successfully

"

i know you don't ... i will be glad to educate you from your own original writings

UNLESS Obama is actually Directed and Guided by Your God like Bush is by His - he is dead meat. The Extreme Right Churches are already saying it is a Sin to vote Democratic - they will call Obama the "AntiChrist" - i am certain of their whispering; the race card is in "reserve" - and unless he really is, he will fail. Your "vision" is badly mistimed and i am here to tell you about it.

Of course My "view is rational only given My assumptions" as is yours and you also assume your vision is a true one. There are many visions but the correct interpretation with applied understanding is the key to all of them.

Again, i don't give a Crap about Hillary - except it is TOO LATE to Shut Her Up and it is going to the Super Delegates - where it will become Ugly and McLame will be able to point to the Disunity in His Favor and his extreme Right takes it form there. McLame Wins.

Here is your Problem that points to the falseness of your vision's interpretation. IF Obama were Really Guided or "fated" to be President - the Republicans would not be preparing for a Last Ditch War [unknown to the Democrats] - AND, Most Importantly, Obama would have already - by now- shown himself to be a Great Leader. He is NOT a great leader even yet like JFK or MLK for he cannot UNITE his OWN party - that is a SIMPLE task compared to uniting America and the World. Unless he is like me, "very last minute" - i know manufactured when i see it and it is BAD PR! Obama is not "for real" or has not grown sufficiently.

What is so hard for you to grasp about this truism?:

United We Stand - Divided We Fall

The Dems are Divided and Obama will Fall because of it
--Sh!t strategy and crap long-range "planning" coupled with blinded by "destiny" talk among his sheepies will do him in - His own followers will turn Traitor like has happened long before.

The destiny of a larva is to become a butterfly. What part of metamorphosis and the Will of God do you not understand. The Apple Bonkers, the Blue Meanies, and Little Glovey have gotten to you.

Your metamorphosis can be easily interrupted - splat! - and the individual dies even if the species may continue. Perhaps you don't understand - a single individual is not "planned" but is part of a Purpose ... the Will of Man has Confounded God Purpose once before and He was amazed by the complexity of his own developing creation.

and of course, the question:

Which God?
-there are a multitude of gods as the Christian and Jewish holy books acknowledge

i am immune to those forces you mention so that is not the silly reason that keeps me from agreeing with you. Your faith is misplaced and your vision subject to interpretation and doubt.

My faith is in me and in my vision. Obama can fail to live up to what I believe and if he does it will not matter. He is only a person but one I put my faith in. Do you think I can be hurt if I'm disappointed. The only thing that will disappoint me is if I don't live up to my own beliefs and opinions. I put my faith in Obama because like calls to like, and that's what I think I'm hearing. I will honor my opinion and if he does not, so what. My faith and my vision can't die. Once The Nothing held me in its grip of death and now I'm alive. There is only God's Will and it has never been confounded because it is the inexorable march of cause and effect laid down through time. Everything is exactly as it must be.

i am glad you feel that way .. that hope is now strong again within you .. but i just fear more action is necessary
--my own views and goals are not so different than yours, i think.

What do you think about that ? That we each have a variation of the same vision and we are clearly interpreting it differently.

i think that IS the problem .. if you and i cannot come to any agreement .. if there is that much Distrust Sown by a [very uncommon] Common Enemy .. then indeed we mirror what is Wrong with the Cosmos right down into the divisive Democratic Party and onto our own forum.

i think you and i should find a way to agree and not fight each other any longer - we know what is "different" we are both logical and coherent .. i also want Obama as President .. i am just willing to wait a bit longer than your "possibly never" - in my view

and .. oh yes .. you can be hurt .. you threatened me only a few days ago when i returned against awakening hope within you
well, against better judgment, i have done so .. now how do WE make the best of it - right now? i think we should also unite to just confound our enemies - most unexpected! How can we find common ground?

 

[JJChicken]

Originally posted by: Rio Rebel
I reject AND denounce Hillary.

I couldn't agree with you more

The irony is that both candidates have 99% same policy yet Hillary's arrogance and selfishness cost her this election. It was her election to lose. And obamabots aren't disillusioned by "hope" and "change" but rather we like to bring back some respectability back to American politics. Not saying Obama is a saint, but Hilda is far worse.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: apoppin
You didn't hear the news?
--Since the 60s no one can still seem to actually find Him
- hence the tabloid rumors of His demise

Your train may be delayed indefinitely at the station IF you don't get off your OWN butt and do something instead of just singing moldy old inspirational songs like Obama .. as nice as the thoughts may be it is no longer practically fits in with the reality of our current altered situation.
:music:

Your own prophecies you choose to ignore predict that someone will stand up successfully

You hold assumptions I do not share. I am not interested in what is good for a party. Democrats, like spineless worms, voted for the war. I voted against my democratic Congressman who did and will vote against my Senators too. All three are Democrat traitors. Scum ball Democrats can rot in hell. Those cowardly bastards were afraid of being kicked out of office if they didn't vote for the war.

I do not believe that the party is destroying itself because of the split between Obama and Clinton. I think either Democrat can beat McCain or that either of them can lose. Let the one that wins the contest be the one to face McCain. The one the Democrats elect to run will make the best candidate. In 8 years there may be somebody better than either of them to run then.

Your view is rational only given your assumptions. I and millions of others do not share them and see no real reason in what you say. You simply have opinions and I have ones I more prefer. I am unpersuaded and I think my candidate will win win win. I want change now.

Also, I don't understand this:

"Your own prophecies you choose to ignore predict that someone will stand up successfully

"

i know you don't ... i will be glad to educate you from your own original writings

UNLESS Obama is actually Directed and Guided by Your God like Bush is by His - he is dead meat. The Extreme Right Churches are already saying it is a Sin to vote Democratic - they will call Obama the "AntiChrist" - i am certain of their whispering; the race card is in "reserve" - and unless he really is, he will fail. Your "vision" is badly mistimed and i am here to tell you about it.

Of course My "view is rational only given My assumptions" as is yours and you also assume your vision is a true one. There are many visions but the correct interpretation with applied understanding is the key to all of them.

Again, i don't give a Crap about Hillary - except it is TOO LATE to Shut Her Up and it is going to the Super Delegates - where it will become Ugly and McLame will be able to point to the Disunity in His Favor and his extreme Right takes it form there. McLame Wins.

Here is your Problem that points to the falseness of your vision's interpretation. IF Obama were Really Guided or "fated" to be President - the Republicans would not be preparing for a Last Ditch War [unknown to the Democrats] - AND, Most Importantly, Obama would have already - by now- shown himself to be a Great Leader. He is NOT a great leader even yet like JFK or MLK for he cannot UNITE his OWN party - that is a SIMPLE task compared to uniting America and the World. Unless he is like me, "very last minute" - i know manufactured when i see it and it is BAD PR! Obama is not "for real" or has not grown sufficiently.

What is so hard for you to grasp about this truism?:

United We Stand - Divided We Fall

The Dems are Divided and Obama will Fall because of it
--Sh!t strategy and crap long-range "planning" coupled with blinded by "destiny" talk among his sheepies will do him in - His own followers will turn Traitor like has happened long before.

The destiny of a larva is to become a butterfly. What part of metamorphosis and the Will of God do you not understand. The Apple Bonkers, the Blue Meanies, and Little Glovey have gotten to you.

Your metamorphosis can be easily interrupted - splat! - and the individual dies even if the species may continue. Perhaps you don't understand - a single individual is not "planned" but is part of a Purpose ... the Will of Man has Confounded God Purpose once before and He was amazed by the complexity of his own developing creation.

and of course, the question:

Which God?
-there are a multitude of gods as the Christian and Jewish holy books acknowledge

i am immune to those forces you mention so that is not the silly reason that keeps me from agreeing with you. Your faith is misplaced and your vision subject to interpretation and doubt.

My faith is in me and in my vision. Obama can fail to live up to what I believe and if he does it will not matter. He is only a person but one I put my faith in. Do you think I can be hurt if I'm disappointed. The only thing that will disappoint me is if I don't live up to my own beliefs and opinions. I put my faith in Obama because like calls to like, and that's what I think I'm hearing. I will honor my opinion and if he does not, so what. My faith and my vision can't die. Once The Nothing held me in its grip of death and now I'm alive. There is only God's Will and it has never been confounded because it is the inexorable march of cause and effect laid down through time. Everything is exactly as it must be.

i am glad you feel that way .. that hope is now strong again within you .. but i just fear more action is necessary
--my own views and goals are not so different than yours, i think.

What do you think about that ? That we each have a variation of the same vision and we are clearly interpreting it differently.

i think that IS the problem .. if you and i cannot come to any agreement .. if there is that much Distrust Sown by a [very uncommon] Common Enemy .. then indeed we mirror what is Wrong with the Cosmos right down into the divisive Democratic Party and onto our own forum.

i think you and i should find a way to agree and not fight each other any longer - we know what is "different" we are both logical and coherent .. i also want Obama as President .. i am just willing to wait a bit longer than your "possibly never" - in my view

and .. oh yes .. you can be hurt .. you threatened me only a few days ago when i returned against awakening hope within you
well, against better judgment, i have done so .. now how do WE make the best of it - right now? i think we should also unite to just confound our enemies - most unexpected! How can we find common ground?

We can begin, perhaps, with the recognition that I am probably not near as smart as you and don't understand all that you say. For example I don't know what in particular you have in mind and refer to when you say one of us was hurt and threatened the other previously.

One of my primary themes is that self hate is the enemy of hope and destroys it wherever it appears and that we are all infected with that very disease. This, of course, means that I am a hypocrite. I know that I hate my own hope and unconsciously work against my true interests. I am a bigot and only worst enemy. The only difference between my blindness and others is that I may be just slightly aware of that fact.

When I was young I set out to prove that good exists and that cost me my every belief. It was only necked and at the end of my rope that I was spun round and saw that the love I had sought wasn't out there but in me. The God I had sought was in the last place I could ever suspect.

I believe that unity begins when people begin to understand they are all facets of the same gem and build on what the have in common and not on what divides them. Its not 'I' that matters but 'us'. It's the I, the ego, the false self, the illusions of my needs, he who is frightened and needs to control, that is the real object of Jihad. The unconsciousness of the true war that must be waged is the real enemy to me.

We were all deeply hurt as children and are now all deeply defensive. Any hurts you can cause me are just fears you'll awaken old wounds. How much sympathy I can give you is dependent on how much sympathy I can give me.

"Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us" It won't happen if we don't.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam


My faith is in me and in my vision. Obama can fail to live up to what I believe and if he does it will not matter. He is only a person but one I put my faith in. Do you think I can be hurt if I'm disappointed. The only thing that will disappoint me is if I don't live up to my own beliefs and opinions. I put my faith in Obama because like calls to like, and that's what I think I'm hearing. I will honor my opinion and if he does not, so what. My faith and my vision can't die. Once The Nothing held me in its grip of death and now I'm alive. There is only God's Will and it has never been confounded because it is the inexorable march of cause and effect laid down through time. Everything is exactly as it must be.

Originally posted by: apoppin
i am glad you feel that way .. that hope is now strong again within you .. but i just fear more action is necessary
--my own views and goals are not so different than yours, i think.

What do you think about that ? That we each have a variation of the same vision and we are clearly interpreting it differently.

i think that IS the problem .. if you and i cannot come to any agreement .. if there is that much Distrust Sown by a [very uncommon] Common Enemy .. then indeed we mirror what is Wrong with the Cosmos right down into the divisive Democratic Party and onto our own forum.

i think you and i should find a way to agree and not fight each other any longer - we know what is "different" we are both logical and coherent .. i also want Obama as President .. i am just willing to wait a bit longer than your "possibly never" - in my view

and .. oh yes .. you can be hurt .. you threatened me only a few days ago when i returned against awakening hope within you
well, against better judgment, i have done so .. now how do WE make the best of it - right now? i think we should also unite to just confound our enemies - most unexpected! How can we find common ground?

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
We can begin, perhaps, with the recognition that I am probably not near as smart as you and don't understand all that you say. For example I don't know what in particular you have in mind and refer to when you say one of us was hurt and threatened the other previously.

Not as smart .. doubtful
.. and here is what i meant from our first recent debate:

Obama's Last Chance to Unite the Dems - Cut a "Deal" with Clinton?

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Oh please please please don't anyone hope. Make sure hope stays dead. My hope is buried deep under my self hate and if you waken it I will remember I died. Please please please don't let me feel that again. I will kill you if you do. Hope must stay dead.

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
One of my primary themes is that self hate is the enemy of hope and destroys it wherever it appears and that we are all infected with that very disease. This, of course, means that I am a hypocrite. I know that I hate my own hope and unconsciously work against my true interests. I am a bigot and only worst enemy. The only difference between my blindness and others is that I may be just slightly aware of that fact.

When I was young I set out to prove that good exists and that cost me my every belief. It was only necked and at the end of my rope that I was spun round and saw that the love I had sought wasn't out there but in me. The God I had sought was in the last place I could ever suspect.

I believe that unity begins when people begin to understand they are all facets of the same gem and build on what the have in common and not on what divides them. Its not 'I' that matters but 'us'. It's the I, the ego, the false self, the illusions of my needs, he who is frightened and needs to control, that is the real object of Jihad. The unconsciousness of the true war that must be waged is the real enemy to me.

We were all deeply hurt as children and are now all deeply defensive. Any hurts you can cause me are just fears you'll awaken old wounds. How much sympathy I can give you is dependent on how much sympathy I can give me.

"Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us" It won't happen if we don't.

So .. as i said .. and i believe from the 8 years i have had here with you .. and i have only been absent off-and-on from OT and later absent from P&N almost completely since the beginning of the War [well 5 years, time flies] .. that we *generally agree*

Our experiences have been Similar with Darkness and yet we have returned with a different way to reach a similar conclusion .. that we are a "colony" as well as "individual" .. and 'free will' is a paradox that can be understood.

there is far more agreement between us than disagreement

So .. how do we do what would make me no longer a hypocrite? How do we Unite our Vision?

if we can do it right here .. the Dems may succeed ,, we can show by example on the smallest scale .. personal ... two people coming to an agreement without sacrificing any principles that wee each live by. Compromise can be positive or negative.

"He that is faithful in Little things will be faithful in Large things .. and to him that has much [responsibility] more will be given"

from the tiniest seed the greatest tree grows ..

unity begins when people begin to understand they are all facets of the same gem and build on what the have in common and not on what divides them

What you said bears repeating and i think WE - you and i, right here and now - should begin to demonstrate it by OUR example

.. and ... [i can never just "shut up"]

.. and .. FYI Satan Does Know How to quote scripture as he was Involved in the Alteration if it
-the primary principles of it remains unaltered .. and that message IS Love.

edited to shorten it and to clarify who said what

 

[RightIsWrong]

Can you two trim your freaking quotes already?

 

[apoppin]

Yes, RiW - *done* .. and thank-you!

You are right .. i mean wro .. no


You are Correct

 

[JJChicken]

Originally posted by: apoppin
You are right .. i mean wro .. no

lollergates

 

[conehead433]

In my lifetime I don't think there has ever been such an inspired voter registration as Obama has caused. I guess we'll see the results soon enough.