The Case for a Creator

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Azndude51

Platinum Member
Sep 26, 2004
2,842
4
81
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Originally posted by: Azndude51
So I'm guess that no one has read this.

Not only is it highly unlikely that anyone here has read this, it's unlikely that any of us ever will read that pile of dog feces of a book. The only possible "case" for a "Creator" that anyone can "build" goes something like this: "I don't understand how the universe works or got started, ergo, a Creator must exist."

Which is utterly stupid.

I'm sure there's more to it in the book than that. I'm just curious about the book because I am not a very religious person and it was a hardcore christian that told me about the book.
 

dderidex

Platinum Member
Mar 13, 2001
2,732
0
0
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
It looks like a pro-Intelligent Design book that "proves" points by knocking down straw men.

Amazon reviewer "Rob Z":

"I was given this book by a concerned friend who had never bothered to read it. I am both a scientist and a christian and I found offensive Strobel's frequent insinuations that anyone who believes in evolution is an atheist. He frequently uses intext citations to bolster his assertions about atheism and his alleged claims of science. If you take the time to check his citations you will find that the great majority of them are outdated or false. He quotes biology textbooks as claiming there is no need for God and instead of citing the actual textbook, the citation leads to another one of his books as the source. He attempts to use the "latest" scientific information to refute "outdated" evolution claims but check the citations and even those few citations actually from scientifically valid sources are decades old. I see in a number of the reviews for this book the term appropriate for a lay person. This is actually not true. It is precisely the layperson who will not check the citations and sources to see if the author has actually substantiated anything. He has not. "

And here we have the answer to the OP's post without getting into any debate about anything else.

He asked about A BOOK.

The book in question is crap - poorly researched, poorly documented, if you handed it in as a thesis, you'd be failed.

End of discussion - let's not argue questions unrelated to the original post.
 

Ophir

Golden Member
Mar 29, 2001
1,211
4
81
Originally posted by: Crazyfool
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Originally posted by: Azndude51
So I'm guess that no one has read this.

Not only is it highly unlikely that anyone here has read this, it's unlikely that any of us ever will read that pile of dog feces of a book. The only possible "case" for a "Creator" that anyone can "build" goes something like this: "I don't understand how the universe works or got started, ergo, a Creator must exist."

Which is utterly stupid.
Yeah, almost as stupid as the theory of evolution, lol.

No, really... DNA just formed on it's own in a puddle! :roll:
Do you know what nucleotides are? Are you familiar with the Miller-Urey experiment? Do you actually know anything about biochemistry?
 

RCN

Platinum Member
Dec 31, 2005
2,134
0
0
No, really... DNA just formed on it's own in a puddle! :roll:
I wouldn't say that. I would say comets brought the precursors of life to earth billions of times and those precursors combined to form more complex structures maybe a few times over a couple billion years. To me it would be impossible for life not to form in an enviroment capable of supporting it.

Hell there may be "aliens" here now or new ones forming as we speak.
 

Taejin

Moderator<br>Love & Relationships
Aug 29, 2004
3,270
0
0
Originally posted by: Ophir
Originally posted by: Crazyfool
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Originally posted by: Azndude51
So I'm guess that no one has read this.

Not only is it highly unlikely that anyone here has read this, it's unlikely that any of us ever will read that pile of dog feces of a book. The only possible "case" for a "Creator" that anyone can "build" goes something like this: "I don't understand how the universe works or got started, ergo, a Creator must exist."

Which is utterly stupid.
Yeah, almost as stupid as the theory of evolution, lol.

No, really... DNA just formed on it's own in a puddle! :roll:
Do you know what nucleotides are? Are you familiar with the Miller-Urey experiment? Do you actually know anything about biochemistry?


Don't even bother. Most of the people arguing against evolution don't have the slightest clue or background.
 

Ophir

Golden Member
Mar 29, 2001
1,211
4
81
Originally posted by: RCN
No, really... DNA just formed on it's own in a puddle! :roll:
I wouldn't say that. I would say comets brought the precursors of life to earth billions of times and those precursors combined to form more complex structures maybe a few times over a couple billion years. To me it would be impossible for life not to form in an enviroment capable of supporting it.

Hell there may be "aliens" here now or new ones forming as we speak.
Look up the Miller-Urey experiment and subsequent "origin of life" experiments. It is likely that the processes were much less complex.
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Originally posted by: Azndude51
So I'm guess that no one has read this.

Not only is it highly unlikely that anyone here has read this, it's unlikely that any of us ever will read that pile of dog feces of a book. The only possible "case" for a "Creator" that anyone can "build" goes something like this: "I don't understand how the universe works or got started, ergo, a Creator must exist."

Which is utterly stupid.

http://www.universist.org/

I wouldn't call them stupid.
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
BTW, it is pretty easy to explain why God doesn't and cannot exist. Philippine Mango. Were God to exist, he certainly wouldn't have allowed such a person to exist.
 

JLGatsby

Banned
Sep 6, 2005
4,525
0
0
Believing in a god is fine, but believing that people will spend eternity in hell for not believing a bunch of loony ancient stories that contradict logic and science is cruel.

You can make a case for a creator all day, but you'll never make a valid case for Christianity.
 

DivideBYZero

Lifer
May 18, 2001
24,117
2
0
Originally posted by: Mill
BTW, it is pretty easy to explain why God doesn't and cannot exist. Philippine Mango. Were God to exist, he certainly wouldn't have allowed such a person to exist.

The truth.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,783
6,340
126
Originally posted by: The Linuxator
Originally posted by: Evadman
/me gets lawnchair


:cool: : Drags lawnchair next to Evadman and throws him a popcorn bag;

Intercepts pass, takes 1 bite of popcorn, hands bag to Evadman, turns to Linux and says, "WTF? No butter???" :|
 

DivideBYZero

Lifer
May 18, 2001
24,117
2
0
Originally posted by: Ophir
Originally posted by: Crazyfool
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Originally posted by: Azndude51
So I'm guess that no one has read this.

Not only is it highly unlikely that anyone here has read this, it's unlikely that any of us ever will read that pile of dog feces of a book. The only possible "case" for a "Creator" that anyone can "build" goes something like this: "I don't understand how the universe works or got started, ergo, a Creator must exist."

Which is utterly stupid.
Yeah, almost as stupid as the theory of evolution, lol.

No, really... DNA just formed on it's own in a puddle! :roll:
Do you know what nucleotides are? Are you familiar with the Miller-Urey experiment? Do you actually know anything about biochemistry?

Point seven is just for you:

Debating on the Internet:

1. Turn someone?s generality into an absolute. For example, if someone makes a general statement that Americans celebrate Christmas, point out that some people are Jewish and so anyone who thinks that ALL Americans celebrate Christmas is stupid. (Bonus points for accusing the person of being anti-Semitic.)

2. Turn someone?s factual statements into implied preferences. For example, if someone mentions that not all Catholic priests are pedophiles, accuse the person who said it of siding with pedophiles.

3. Turn factual statements into implied equivalents. For example, if someone says that Ghandi didn?t eat cows, accuse the person of stupidly implying that cows deserve equal billing with Gandhi.

4. Omit key words. For example, if someone says that people can?t eat rocks, accuse the person of being stupid for suggesting that people can?t eat. Bonus points for arguing that some people CAN eat pebbles if they try hard enough.

5. Assume the dumbest interpretation. For example, if someone says that he can run a mile in 12 minutes, assume he means it happens underwater and argue that no one can hold his breath that long.

6. Hallucinate entirely different points. For example, if someone says apples grow on trees, accuse him of saying snakes have arms and then point out how stupid that is.

7. Use the intellectual laziness card. For example, if someone says that ice is cold, recommend that he take graduate courses in chemistry and meteorology before jumping to stupid conclusions that display a complete ignorance of the complexity of ice.
 

Conky

Lifer
May 9, 2001
10,709
0
0
Originally posted by: Ophir
Originally posted by: Crazyfool
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Originally posted by: Azndude51
So I'm guess that no one has read this.

Not only is it highly unlikely that anyone here has read this, it's unlikely that any of us ever will read that pile of dog feces of a book. The only possible "case" for a "Creator" that anyone can "build" goes something like this: "I don't understand how the universe works or got started, ergo, a Creator must exist."

Which is utterly stupid.
Yeah, almost as stupid as the theory of evolution, lol.

No, really... DNA just formed on it's own in a puddle! :roll:
Do you know what nucleotides are? Are you familiar with the Miller-Urey experiment? Do you actually know anything about biochemistry?

Very familiar. Do you know what happens to nucleotides in a puddle in the sun?

Do you know anything about the fossil record? Or how long life has existed on planet earth according to scientists? Do your homework and get back to me on this subject and until then you get an F. :laugh:

 

RCN

Platinum Member
Dec 31, 2005
2,134
0
0
Originally posted by: Ophir
Originally posted by: RCN
No, really... DNA just formed on it's own in a puddle! :roll:
I wouldn't say that. I would say comets brought the precursors of life to earth billions of times and those precursors combined to form more complex structures maybe a few times over a couple billion years. To me it would be impossible for life not to form in an enviroment capable of supporting it.

Hell there may be "aliens" here now or new ones forming as we speak.
Look up the Miller-Urey experiment and subsequent "origin of life" experiments. It is likely that the processes were much less complex.

The experiment was flawed (Miller-Urey). Got any others?

Anyway there is no need to create building blocks.......they are already out there:
http://www.space.com/searchforlife/seti_shostak_020404.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/12/051229112518.htm
 

Conky

Lifer
May 9, 2001
10,709
0
0
Originally posted by: Mill
BTW, it is pretty easy to explain why God doesn't and cannot exist. Philippine Mango. Were God to exist, he certainly wouldn't have allowed such a person to exist.

I must disagree... Philippine Mango is proof that God has a very perverted and disturbing sense of humor. :laugh:
 

DivideBYZero

Lifer
May 18, 2001
24,117
2
0
Originally posted by: Crazyfool
Originally posted by: Mill
BTW, it is pretty easy to explain why God doesn't and cannot exist. Philippine Mango. Were God to exist, he certainly wouldn't have allowed such a person to exist.

I must disagree... Philippine Mango is proof that God has a very perverted and disturbing sense of humor. :laugh:

Do you even know what happens to a Mango in the sun?
 

dxkj

Lifer
Feb 17, 2001
11,772
2
81
Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Originally posted by: Crazyfool
Originally posted by: Mill
BTW, it is pretty easy to explain why God doesn't and cannot exist. Philippine Mango. Were God to exist, he certainly wouldn't have allowed such a person to exist.

I must disagree... Philippine Mango is proof that God has a very perverted and disturbing sense of humor. :laugh:

Do you even know what happens to a Mango in the sun?

Until you can tell me what happens to a grape eaten by a mango that misguidedly visits the sun to buy a condo, then you have no place speaking.
 

DivideBYZero

Lifer
May 18, 2001
24,117
2
0
Originally posted by: dxkj
Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Originally posted by: Crazyfool
Originally posted by: Mill
BTW, it is pretty easy to explain why God doesn't and cannot exist. Philippine Mango. Were God to exist, he certainly wouldn't have allowed such a person to exist.

I must disagree... Philippine Mango is proof that God has a very perverted and disturbing sense of humor. :laugh:

Do you even know what happens to a Mango in the sun?

Until you can tell me what happens to a grape eaten by a mango that misguidedly visits the sun to buy a condo, then you have no place speaking.

Do you have any idea about Planetery Visits? Have you not even heard of the Electroweak theory? Do you know what happens to a Mango that is left in a puddle of internet? Do you actually know anything about Fruit?
 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
27,112
930
126
Obviously people will believe what they believe, whether or not there is evidence to the contrary staring them right in the face. Just look at the president of Iran's belief that the halocost never happened. If someone thinks and believes that the moon is purple, and that is their committment, you will not change their mind. ;)
To disrupt their paradigm would put them so far into cognitive dissonance, they may never recover, so they will go about in denial, with huge barriers against any sort of intrusion into their beliefs. :)
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
81
Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
7. Use the intellectual laziness card. For example, if someone says that ice is cold, recommend that he take graduate courses in chemistry and meteorology before jumping to stupid conclusions that display a complete ignorance of the complexity of ice.

Because discussing the complexity of ice is the equivalent of discussing how DNA is formed. Fascinating.
 

Midlander

Platinum Member
Dec 21, 2002
2,456
1
0
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: The Linuxator
Originally posted by: Evadman
/me gets lawnchair


:cool: : Drags lawnchair next to Evadman and throws him a popcorn bag;

Intercepts pass, takes 1 bite of popcorn, hands bag to Evadman, turns to Linux and says, "WTF? No butter???" :|

/quickly erects stands capable of holding a whole host of ATOTers. Hires beer man and cheerleaders. Sits back and enjoys the show.
 

J Heartless Slick

Golden Member
Nov 11, 1999
1,330
0
0
One of the great foundations of the US culture is freedom of religion. It is okay if you want to believe that Harvey the Pukka created the world. But you believing that Harvey is the "creator" does not make it science.

Evolutin was Darwin's description of the processes that generated all diversity he saw. You can produce a species by implementing, genetic variability and selection. Yes there are still unanswered questions concerning how life started. A better explanation than Evolution may come out. That is the way science works.