The Case Against Fox News

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heyheybooboo

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2007
6,278
0
0
Originally posted by: daveymark
this is what happens when you're at the top, people will try to bring you down. it's just a fact of life. How Fox reacts to all of this will play a key role in how well they come out ahead. unfortunately for libs, there's no such thing as bad publicity and stunts like this will only pull more viewership in for Fox

Top of what? The dung heap?

Why don't you tell us how mny people watch Fox News?

30 million people watch the evening news each day

14 million people watch network morning news each day

Sunday network news programs 10 million
fox news sunday - 1.4 million

15 million people watch 60 Minutes each week
Dateline has 19.7 million viewers over 2 nights
20/20 has 8.8 million viewers a week
48 Hours Mystery has 7.4 million viewers a week
Primetime Live has 6.7 million viewers a week
Nightline averages 3.5 million viewers a night

Frontline averages 3 million viewers per episode

On cable CNN still leads in the number of different people who watch it over the course of the month.

btw - I read this weekend that 6000 people a day watch the Fox business channel.
 

ScottMac

Moderator<br>Networking<br>Elite member
Mar 19, 2001
5,471
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0
Originally posted by: lozina
Does anyone at all support Fox News' decision to exclude RP, and have a reason besides that they just hate RP?

I do, I did, and I posted on the Fox site saying that I supported their decision to cull the Chief Loon from the discussion and provide more discussion time for the most likely candidates.

The Esteemed Leader of the Tinfoil Hat Brigade rarely breaks the 5% mark nationally (at best) . There have been a few minor, short-lived excursions above that over the last month or two, but nothing sustained or sustainable.

And again, I don't hate the man. I just don't support him for POTUS.


 

lozina

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
11,711
8
81
Originally posted by: ScottMac
Originally posted by: lozina
Does anyone at all support Fox News' decision to exclude RP, and have a reason besides that they just hate RP?

I do, I did, and I posted on the Fox site saying that I supported their decision to cull the Chief Loon from the discussion and provide more discussion time for the most likely candidates.

The Esteemed Leader of the Tinfoil Hat Brigade rarely breaks the 5% mark nationally (at best) . There have been a few minor, short-lived excursions above that over the last month or two, but nothing sustained or sustainable.

And again, I don't hate the man. I just don't support him for POTUS.

Well despite your so-called national poll, he scored almost double the votes of Guiliani in Iowa in actual votes. Remember: polls dont mean shit when it comes down to real votes... Yet Guiliani was invited. Thomspon on the other hand is not even seriously campaigning in NH, yet he was also invited. Given these facts, even the NH GOP committee rightly withdrew their support of the event, and rightly so.

Those are the facts.

So now re-reading your response the sole reason you cited for not inviting RP is because of some old, questionable national poll result. And we've shown how that poll means jack squat in Iowa. What's left is your choice words you felt necessary to include when mention Ron Paul... Chief Loon? Leader of Tinfoil Hat Brigade? I thought you said you don't hate the guy? this sound awfully close to the kind of unsubstantiated accusations one would come up with to discredit someone they hate...

or maybe you've just let the Fox News "senior political analysts" opinions to seep into your head
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Originally posted by: lozina
Does anyone at all support Fox News' decision to exclude RP, and have a reason besides that they just hate RP?

As you may know, I have expressed my support for RP and do occasionally try to pursaude others to do likewise when the opportunity arises.

However, I see no reason for this outrage over RP not being at the Sunday night Fox roundtable. I prefer that he were included, but at this point he still polls as a fairly marginal candidate.

Further, promoting this kind of government action seems to me the very type of thing that RP would oppose.

Fern
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: lozina
Does anyone at all support Fox News' decision to exclude RP, and have a reason besides that they just hate RP?

As you may know, I have expressed my support for RP and do occasionally try to pursaude others to do likewise when the opportunity arises.

However, I see no reason for this outrage over RP not being at the Sunday night Fox roundtable. I prefer that he were included, but at this point he still polls as a fairly marginal candidate.

Further, promoting this kind of government action seems to me the very type of thing that RP would oppose.

Fern


Yes he would oppose it. But he also advocates using the system as it stands (earmarks). Civil protest and boycotting is not only needed but the duty of every American citizen. News is supposed to be fact, not opinion. They are supposed to give the people the story and allow you to form your own opinion. This is not happening as you can tell from the two video's if you watched them. Their reporting is clearly a misrepresentation of the truth "fair and balanced".

If we allow MSM to report opinions instead of the facts, how long or how far off are we really from a fascist controlled media? We cannot just stand around with our hands in our pockets hoping they will do the right thing in the interests of American people. Rather, I suggest they present us with the facts and allow the people to decide what is best for America.

Murdoch has a history of biased reporting methods and curtailing any descent of the republican party. Rupert needs to be sent a message saying we demand the facts not opinion and a real "fair and balanced" reporting.

I will not say that fox is the only culprit, but they are IMO the worst. By making an example of them, the message will be to all reporting agencies to report only the facts and not spin.
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,986
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Originally posted by: Fern
Further, promoting this kind of government action seems to me the very type of thing that RP would oppose.

Bingo. How ironic that Ron Paul fanatics are wasting time on nonsense like this. Paul would never support such government intervention and control over media. He rails against it.

 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
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Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: Fern
Further, promoting this kind of government action seems to me the very type of thing that RP would oppose.

Bingo. How ironic that Ron Paul fanatics are wasting time on nonsense like this. Paul would never support such government intervention and control over media. He rails against it.

Perhaps they don't think that the media should be allowed to effectively choose who our Presidential candidates are going to be?
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Originally posted by: Darwin333
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: Fern
Further, promoting this kind of government action seems to me the very type of thing that RP would oppose.

Bingo. How ironic that Ron Paul fanatics are wasting time on nonsense like this. Paul would never support such government intervention and control over media. He rails against it.

Perhaps they don't think that the media should be allowed to effectively choose who our Presidential candidates are going to be?

If the media did that, HRC would be winning. And she ain't.

Oh I see media bias, but I also see that they are not effective as they'd like to be, or some think. E.g., the media (IMO) doesn't like the whole illegal immigration issue and they keep trying to make it go away. But it won't.

I saw a piece yesterday where they were trying to make the case that illegal immigration is dead as a Pres election issue. But then it pops right back up again because the people of NH are interested in it.

If the voters are interested in an issue and feel strongly about it, the media's attempt to tamp it down will fail. The candidates are gonna listen to voters (because they want their votes), and the voters will find out the candidates' stance on issues that they are concerned about.

Fern
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
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Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: Darwin333
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: Fern
Further, promoting this kind of government action seems to me the very type of thing that RP would oppose.

Bingo. How ironic that Ron Paul fanatics are wasting time on nonsense like this. Paul would never support such government intervention and control over media. He rails against it.

Perhaps they don't think that the media should be allowed to effectively choose who our Presidential candidates are going to be?

If the media did that, HRC would be winning. And she ain't.

Oh I see media bias, but I also see that they are not effective as they'd like to be, or some think. E.g., the media (IMO) doesn't like the whole illegal immigration issue and they keep trying to make it go away. But it won't.

I saw a piece yesterday where they were trying to make the case that illegal immigration is dead as a Pres election issue. But then it pops right back up again because the people of NH are interested in it.

If the voters are interested in an issue and feel strongly about it, the media's attempt to tamp it down will fail. The candidates are gonna listen to voters (because they want their votes), and the voters will find out the candidates' stance on issues that they are concerned about.

Fern

Do you think she would be winning if the national media said that Obama was a 9/11 conspiracy theorist (even though thats a lie) and excluded him from their debates?

The media controls a very large portion of what voters learn about a candidate and I think that it would be very difficult to argue that the national media does not play a huge role in who we elect in this country.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Originally posted by: Darwin333
Originally posted by: Fern
Do you think she would be winning if the national media said that Obama was a 9/11 conspiracy theorist (even though thats a lie) and excluded him from their debates?

The media controls a very large portion of what voters learn about a candidate and I think that it would be very difficult to argue that the national media does not play a huge role in who we elect in this country.

RP has gotten some very good exposure from the media. The Glenn Beck interveiw is a good example. I think RP makes a much beter compelling case in that format. The soundbites that come with the so-called debates do not suit him.

While I do not believe RP is 9-11 conspirist, clearly some of his followers are. From what I've seen, that's what being reported. Since I believe it true, I can't take exception to it. RP is widely, and accurately I believe, seen as a grass -roots internet based candidate. The media coverage reflects that, hence nutty YouTube stuff as well as impressive reports of his campaign fundraising from the internet effort.

I realy don't think he's getting dissed by the media anymore than any other candidate. I.e., thye've been saying Romney's toast if he doesn't win in NH. And they are saying similar stuff about HRC.

Jeez, at least they do talk about RP. What are Duncan Hunter's supporters to think? You'd think he dropped out already. They just completely ignore him.

What about all the UFO jokes about Kucinich?

Pretty much every candidate's supporters have some basis for criticism of the media's treatment of their person.

BTW: I saw an RP campaign add over here in NC (we get very few here). It was a good one too.

Fern
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
2
81
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Just out of curiosity, did anyone make an attempt at viewing the videos?

I watched the 10 minute video, I have not had a chance to watch the longer one. Yet.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
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Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Give us a break already...

Why aren't you complaining about the "Clinton New Network" and its treatment of Hillary v. Obama.

Let's see....

For what I heard the network all but tried to ignore Hillary's huge loss in Iowa.

And then we have all 'undecided' voters at its youtube debate that were actually members of various Democratic campaigns, or very open supporters.

BTW at what point are you Ron whats his name fan boys going to give up? The guy got 10% in Iowa and will most likely do the same in New Hampshire. In both cases he will finish 5th at best.
At what point do you throw in the towel and admit that he doesn't have a chance?

couldn`t have said it better!!
Let me fix one thing though.....OK fixed!!
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: HomerJS
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Give us a break already...

Why aren't you complaining about the "Clinton New Network" and its treatment of Hillary v. Obama.

Let's see....

For what I heard the network all but tried to ignore Hillary's huge loss in Iowa.

And then we have all 'undecided' voters at its youtube debate that were actually members of various Democratic campaigns, or very open supporters.

BTW at what point are you Ron Paul fan boys going to give up? The guy got 10% in Iowa and will most likely do the same in New Hampshire. In both cases he will finish 5th at best.
At what point do you throw in the towel and admit that he doesn't have a chance?

Didn't Paul get more votes then Guliani??
Rudy skipped Iowa which means most of his supporters didn't bother to show up and vote for him.

So did Paul. ;)

more excuses....
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: HomerJS
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Give us a break already...

Why aren't you complaining about the "Clinton New Network" and its treatment of Hillary v. Obama.

Let's see....

For what I heard the network all but tried to ignore Hillary's huge loss in Iowa.

And then we have all 'undecided' voters at its youtube debate that were actually members of various Democratic campaigns, or very open supporters.

BTW at what point are you Ron Paul fan boys going to give up? The guy got 10% in Iowa and will most likely do the same in New Hampshire. In both cases he will finish 5th at best.
At what point do you throw in the towel and admit that he doesn't have a chance?

Didn't Paul get more votes then Guliani??
Rudy skipped Iowa which means most of his supporters didn't bother to show up and vote for him.

So did Paul. ;)

more excuses....

Someone ban this spammer already....
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: HomerJS
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Give us a break already...

Why aren't you complaining about the "Clinton New Network" and its treatment of Hillary v. Obama.

Let's see....

For what I heard the network all but tried to ignore Hillary's huge loss in Iowa.

And then we have all 'undecided' voters at its youtube debate that were actually members of various Democratic campaigns, or very open supporters.

BTW at what point are you Ron Paul fan boys going to give up? The guy got 10% in Iowa and will most likely do the same in New Hampshire. In both cases he will finish 5th at best.
At what point do you throw in the towel and admit that he doesn't have a chance?

Didn't Paul get more votes then Guliani??
Rudy skipped Iowa which means most of his supporters didn't bother to show up and vote for him.

So did Paul. ;)

more excuses....

Someone ban this spammer already....

That`s what I would expect of a Ron whats his name supporter.....
You can`t do anything about the message so you try to ban the messenger....hmmmm
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: HomerJS
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Give us a break already...

Why aren't you complaining about the "Clinton New Network" and its treatment of Hillary v. Obama.

Let's see....

For what I heard the network all but tried to ignore Hillary's huge loss in Iowa.

And then we have all 'undecided' voters at its youtube debate that were actually members of various Democratic campaigns, or very open supporters.

BTW at what point are you Ron Paul fan boys going to give up? The guy got 10% in Iowa and will most likely do the same in New Hampshire. In both cases he will finish 5th at best.
At what point do you throw in the towel and admit that he doesn't have a chance?

Didn't Paul get more votes then Guliani??
Rudy skipped Iowa which means most of his supporters didn't bother to show up and vote for him.

So did Paul. ;)

more excuses....

Someone ban this spammer already....

That`s what I would expect of a Ron whats his name supporter.....
You can`t do anything about the message so you try to ban the messenger....hmmmm

What message would that be? You brought no message but accusations. Stop spamming and go back to cases and cooling where you actually know something about.
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,986
1
0
Originally posted by: Nitemare
Absolutely pathetic that they invited Thompson over RP

No...Thompson polls higher nationally than Paul.

Paul doesn't even break 4% nationally, according to RCP.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: Nitemare
Absolutely pathetic that they invited Thompson over RP

No...Thompson polls higher nationally than Paul.

Paul doesn't even break 4% nationally, according to RCP.

Give me a break. We all know that polls are flawed at best and can be easily manipulated.

The media themselves use fund raising as one of their biggest measuring sticks of how well a candidate is doing/how much support they have. We also have actual caucus numbers to go by.

I bet I can dig up posts by yourself that implied HRC's campaign and support was going down because of her fund raising.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: Darwin333
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: Nitemare
Absolutely pathetic that they invited Thompson over RP

No...Thompson polls higher nationally than Paul.

Paul doesn't even break 4% nationally, according to RCP.

Give me a break. We all know that polls are flawed at best and can be easily manipulated.

The media themselves use fund raising as one of their biggest measuring sticks of how well a candidate is doing/how much support they have. We also have actual caucus numbers to go by.

I bet I can dig up posts by yourself that implied HRC's campaign and support was going down because of her fund raising.

So...if polls are flawed, then how can you say Pab is wrong? What proof do you have...other than polls...
 

lozina

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
11,711
8
81
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: Darwin333
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: Nitemare
Absolutely pathetic that they invited Thompson over RP

No...Thompson polls higher nationally than Paul.

Paul doesn't even break 4% nationally, according to RCP.

Give me a break. We all know that polls are flawed at best and can be easily manipulated.

The media themselves use fund raising as one of their biggest measuring sticks of how well a candidate is doing/how much support they have. We also have actual caucus numbers to go by.

I bet I can dig up posts by yourself that implied HRC's campaign and support was going down because of her fund raising.

So...if polls are flawed, then how can you say Pab is wrong? What proof do you have...other than polls...

Like the guy you just quoted said, with fund raising. Take a look at RP's fundraising last quarter.

To be sure, other Republican candidates hadn?t disclosed their fourth-quarter fund-raising figures as of yesterday. But to date, only former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney has issued a better three-month report, and just once: $20.8 million in the first quarter, not counting loans the former venture capitalist made to his campaign.

Mr. Paul?s fund-raising performance is all the more remarkable because his bid for the Republican nomination remains such a long shot. An advocate of small government who opposes American participation in most international organizations and treaties, and who would leave questions like abortion up to the states, Mr. Paul registers in single digits in polls nationally and in the key early-voting states of Iowa and New Hampshire. His fourth-quarter fund-raising figures represent a remarkable acceleration; for the first three quarters of this year combined, he raised just $8.2 million. [?]

Mr. Paul?s total is all the more impressive because, unlike other candidates, few of his donors are giving the maximum $2,300 check. About 90 percent of Mr. Paul?s contributions come through online donations that average $100 per donor, said his spokesman, Jesse Benton. ?We have powerful grassroots support,? he said. ?It shows how hungry people are for real change.?

emphasis added.
 

daveymark

Lifer
Sep 15, 2003
10,573
1
0
Originally posted by: Darwin333
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: Nitemare
Absolutely pathetic that they invited Thompson over RP

No...Thompson polls higher nationally than Paul.

Paul doesn't even break 4% nationally, according to RCP.

Give me a break. We all know that polls are flawed at best and can be easily manipulated.

hence the reason RP wins any online poll :)