The Buffett rule

[woolfe9999]

The current US "tax world-wide income" is really stupid. As i have said before, I am the CFO of a multi-national company and I deal with those laws all the time. They trap billions that were earned overseas outside of the USA where the cash is not invested in the USA. However, that is a different topic.

I do agree with the President that by simple math more revenue is needed. Unless Washington is willing to take major action to eliminate entitlement spending, we need to pay for it. I want to eliminate it ASAP and my plan of raising taxes on everyone is guaranteed to piss a lot of people off.

I have not see a credible proposal of why increasing taxes on dividends makes sense. Lower rates compensate for the fact that it was already taxed and encourages companies to pay them and circulate money that otherwise would just sit on their balance sheet. The average company invests excess cash in the safest money market funds they can find. Very low return and little economic stimulation.

Like I suggested above, if you want to target it, then you need a tax that says first $100K of dividend income = 15%, the rest at 20% or something like that.

Same for capital gains except for a sub-rule that protects owner/founders. Like if you own more than 30% of the company always 15% otherwise first $100K at 15% the rest at 20% or something like that.

The above are actual proposals. So far Obama has only been running his mouth off but not suggesting how.

Michael

Raising taxes on everyone isn't a good idea in this economy. Deep spending cuts that hit this year or next are also a bad idea. Raising taxes on upper incomes won't have that much effect on it one way or other.

In any event, even if the economy were healthier, an across the board increase would be politically very difficult to pull off.

- wolf

 

[K1052]

So far Obama has only been running his mouth off but not suggesting how.

Both parties are in election mode. Anything that even suggested increased taxes stands a less than zero chance of passing the house until after the election. Obama gets to paint the Republicans into a corner of representing the rich who don't want to pay "their fair share" while threatening popular social programs at the expense of the lower and middle classes. Given the republican field it might be a winning strategy but the whole country looses valuable time to actually address the issues.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

Outsourcing drives me fucking crazy - and it's not because of the politics. It's the fact that I have an incentive to play these stupid games and these are the consequences.

What drives me even more nuts is that although the corporate tax rate in the US 35%, the effective tax rate for all US corporations is 25% (or around there) due to deductions, etc. The corporate tax rate in AU is 30%. If we just lowered the US corporate tax rate to 25% and got rid of all the special deductions, the government would lose no revenue. And now since the 25% is lower than the 30% I would recommend to the board to source the income to the US so that we pay US income taxes! Not only that, I would have the privilege of firing our lawyers and tax accountants. My life would be improved personally, and we'd hire competent US developers that are on the same schedule as I am!

I believe the effective corporate tax rate is closer to 16 or 17%.

 

[Lemon law]

Bottom line, cutting a little bit for middle class income and cutting a whole bunch of upper class income taxes can only result in reducted income class revenues that can only kite the defecit everyone is complaining about.

It still results in class warfare againts the middle class.

 

[JS80]

I believe the effective corporate tax rate is closer to 16 or 17%.

That is the effective corporate tax rate for non-US first world countries. US effective tax rate is in the range I quoted.

 

[Engineer]

That is the effective corporate tax rate for non-US first world countries. US effective tax rate is in the range I quoted.

The tax rate for the largest U.S. companies between 2006 and 2009 was 27.7 percent, compared with a non-U.S. average of 19.5 percent, according to the study released today. Companies based in Japan, Morocco, Italy, Indonesia and Germany faced higher tax rates. Excluding the U.S., companies based in industrialized countries had an average rate of 22.6 percent.

Correct other than industrialized countries are slightly higher than the 16-17% range. US needs to cut taxes on business (dramatically as far as I'm concerned - with stipulations) with the requirement that they hire people to grow the economy. If not, repeal their tax cut, period. No other reason to cut other than employment.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

That is the effective corporate tax rate for non-US first world countries. US effective tax rate is in the range I quoted.

You're right, my mistake. I'd like to see the statutory corporate tax rate cut to around 15% and have capital gains taxed as ordinary income.

 

[iGas]

You can't tax the rich, because that would keep their living standard down near their fellow man.

IMHO, it would make sense to increase capital gain tax to 50% at $1 million, and pro rate it starting from 35%. With retroactive tax charge for 5 years.

 

[Craig234]

You can't tax the rich, because that would keep their living standard down near their fellow man.

No, it wouldn't, for the ultra wealthy.

Their wealth has little to do with their 'living standard'. That costs a pittance for them.

IMHO, it would make sense to increase capital gain tax to 50% at $1 million, and pro rate it starting from 35%. With retroactive tax charge for 5 years.

Right idea, but unconstitutional.

We just need corrective tax rates for a period of time.

 

[Michael]

My idea on raising taxes on everyone is to underscore the importance of getting spending in line. Economically, there is an argument that taking money out of the economy now is very bad because of the strain it is under, but you need to balance that with the longer term structural issues the country faces.

If both political parties are really so serious about the deficit, tax all of us and make us feel the pinch of what our expectations really should be costing us.

The rich will pay more actual dollars, but the pain should be universal and linked directly to the government.

Again, other than a broad concept of "rich should not pay a lower rate", there was little meat in the announcement.

Michael

 

[Muse]

The rich pay more per capita but they are really on easy street compared to the struggling middle class in the USA, which has become pretty much an underclass at this point. I'm not saying that the USA should go communist, but I think the rich should pay way more in taxes than they have been. Trickle down philosophy is largely a smoke screen used by the huge industry out there protecting the super rich. There's tons of political clout that's been insulating the rich from being tapped in recent years, hence the Buffett Rule, which is scandalous, pathetic and shameful if you think about it. The Republican Party is owned by the rich, bought and paid for.
- - - -

An oxymoron a day keeps reality away

 

[a777pilot]

The kindest thing that can be said about the President's "jobs" plan is: Stupid is as stupid does.

 

[Craig234]

My idea on raising taxes on everyone is to underscore the importance of getting spending in line. Economically, there is an argument that taking money out of the economy now is very bad because of the strain it is under, but you need to balance that with the longer term structural issues the country faces.

If both political parties are really so serious about the deficit, tax all of us and make us feel the pinch of what our expectations really should be costing us.

The rich will pay more actual dollars, but the pain should be universal and linked directly to the government.

Again, other than a broad concept of "rich should not pay a lower rate", there was little meat in the announcement.

Michael

The poor already give enough, have given more than enough, for decades - as the US economy has double in size, the bottom 80% got 0% of the growth after inflation.

The wealth has been hugely centralized at the top and not one penny more is needed from the bottom - quite the opposite.

 

[Michael]

The poor don't pay income taxes and, other than consuming more services than they pay for, so are moot in this conversation.

Michael

 

[quest55720]

I would rather see them lower rates and get ride of every single deduction. But that won't happen as they want control behavior in DC with tax insentives/credits. Spending is much more of an issue than revenue. Extra taxes is just goingbe spent when they raise spending by that amount generated. The only way I agree to tax hikes is a air tight Balanced budget ammenment is attached to it.

 

[dmcowen674]

The current US "tax world-wide income" is really stupid. As i have said before, I am the CFO of a multi-national company and I deal with those laws all the time. They trap billions that were earned overseas outside of the USA where the cash is not invested in the USA. However, that is a different topic.

I have not see a credible proposal of why increasing taxes on dividends makes sense. Lower rates compensate for the fact that it was already taxed and encourages companies to pay them and circulate money that otherwise would just sit on their balance sheet. The average company invests excess cash in the safest money market funds they can find. Very low return and little economic stimulation.

Same for capital gains except for a sub-rule that protects owner/founders.

Why is it OK for your class from contributing any more to the country while getting the lower class that is already struggling to pay more?

Your class has been getting a huge break for a long time and spouting nonsense about stunting the job creators.

If your class is the job creators as you say and not able to produce jobs here with the huge tax breaks what will having the lower classes pay more accomplish to create more jobs?

The lower class is not the job creators, they are the job seekers.

 

[Craig234]

The poor don't pay income taxes and, other than consuming more services than they pay for, so are moot in this conversation.

Michael

How much did slaves pay in income taxes? Did they consume more in services than they paid for in taxes? I guess they were 'moochers'. The poor pay in a lot of ways.

 

[manly]

I'd also like to know how many Lefties actually think that Warren Buffett won't be employing a small army of accountants and tax lawyers the second this bill is enacted to ensure that it has little to no effect on him.

He's doing it now while he rails against his current tax rate. What's going to change?

How many think that he isn't going to help write the new rate? Just like Jeffrey "No-Tax" Immelt is helping the president create jobs...

actually in Buffett's case, he's simply enjoying a low capital gains tax relative to marginal income tax, and virtually all his income is exempt from FICA. He doesn't need a small army of accountants as you or others like to insinuate. As he himself puts it, Congress coddles him with the current tax code, and he doesn't need any fancy CPAs to comply with it.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Why on earth should we listen to a guy who flat out says he doesn't give a shit about this country's prosperity? People like you are the reason why the world is as fucked up as it is. As far as I'm concerned you could go DIAF and nobody would notice or care. The world might even be better off.

What the fuck is wrong with people that $100 or $200 million isn't enough? It's sickening how greedy people can be. We absolutely need to raise taxes on millionaires and bring the rates back in line to what they were when our economy was actually prospering. We also need to couple that with RESPONSIBLE government spending and true balanced budget approaches.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

It's quite hilarious that this so-called "CFO" can't do simple fucking math.

Raise taxes on everyone? Do you realize how LITTLE money there actually is in the bottom 50%? Even taxing these people at 100% won't get you very far. Go do your homework moron.

 

[Michael]

For someone that likes to type "moron", you can't read.

The bottom 50% do not pay any taxes now therefore would not pay anything. Although I want to charge them something, if I could. I don't care about raising large sums of money from them, I want everyone to be pissed off that they have to pay more. Note - I said everyone, that means the "rich" too. By definition, that means the rich will pay more.

My intent is not to raise revenue to match the spending, my intent is to get as many people a possible pissed that additional taxes are needed to support the psending to increase the pressure to keep the spending down.

The fact that less and less people actually pay taxes is an issue in and of itself, but if you are not paying income taxes now, then anything I proposed would cause no additonal taxes for the "bottom 50%".

As for Dave, you also fail in the category of thinking. Is lower rates on dividends and capital gains good or bad policy. I listed reasons why it is good policy, so if you think it is bad policy, then why?

Michael

 

[IBMer]

The bottom 50% do not pay any taxes now therefore would not pay anything. Although I want to charge them something, if I could. I don't care about raising large sums of money from them, I want everyone to be pissed off that they have to pay more. Note - I said everyone, that means the "rich" too. By definition, that means the rich will pay more.

Talk about class warfare....

Anyways, this fallacy is getting really old. What you really should be saying is people with 2 or more children making less than 40k a year don't pay taxes. Because those are the only people getting a refund back that covers their tax expenses. I certainly pay taxes and I am in the bottom 50 percent.

 

[PeshakJang]

actually in Buffett's case, he's simply enjoying a low capital gains tax relative to marginal income tax, and virtually all his income is exempt from FICA. He doesn't need a small army of accountants as you or others like to insinuate. As he himself puts it, Congress coddles him with the current tax code, and he doesn't need any fancy CPAs to comply with it.

That's just flat out incorrect. Just days after his last comments, there were stories everywhere about the army of lawyers he has working to make sure he pays as little as possible.

You can fool some liberals all the time, or all liberals some of the time, or all the liberals all the time.

Save234

 

[Michael]

If you work, you pay FICA and Medicare. However, I said income taxes. The "bottom 50%" certainly pay taxes. I should list sales taxes and property taxes while I am at it. Taxes on gasoline. Taxes on cigarettes.

Income taxes, not really.

Michael

 

[highland145]

What drives me even more nuts is that although the corporate tax rate in the US 35%, the effective tax rate for all US corporations is 25% (or around there) due to deductions, etc. The corporate tax rate in AU is 30%. If we just lowered the US corporate tax rate to 25% and got rid of all the special deductions, the government would lose no revenue. And now since the 25% is lower than the 30% I would recommend to the board to source the income to the US so that we pay US income taxes! Not only that, I would have the privilege of firing our lawyers and tax accountants. My life would be improved personally, and we'd hire competent US developers that are on the same schedule as I am!

CEO of Kimberly Clark was on the finance channel this A.M., said this almost verbatim.