The brutal truth why America needs H1B visa.

[Imp]

Going back decades, H1B visas have allowed tech companies to hire low-wage contract tech labor that can't afford to complain, and that's the main 'need' for them.

Pretty much... If the H1B is anything like Canada's Temporary Foreign Worker program: what could be better than a worker who doesn't speak the local language fluently, doesn't fully understand local laws and workers' rights, doesn't have permanent residency status, whose residency is dependent on the employer, and who can be deported at the whim of the employer.

Having said that, the k-12 system could DEFINITELY use some work. Even college graduates are lacking in many general areas nowadays (e.g. basic finances, language skills). Not sure why one has to go to college to "learn to think".

 

[sourceninja]

I add this to the discussion.

http://www.computerworld.com/articl...-says-he-was-told-not-to-hire-us-workers.html

 

[cabri]

I add this to the discussion.

http://www.computerworld.com/articl...-says-he-was-told-not-to-hire-us-workers.html

There are multiple large recruiting firms within the US that are based/HQ out of India.

And all the little fly by nights that seem to then feed these big boys.
2/3 will have Indian people working the preliminary phones.

Now I have worked with Indians before and those engineers that are in the US are normally able to communicate clear enough.

 

[theeedude]

The issue I have with H1B, and why I would be against expanding the program in its current form is that it's tied to an employer, which gives employer undue leverage over employees of holding their immigration status hostage.
If we as a country need these high skill workers, then they should be given a portable visa that they can take to another employer without having to start over. Then employers will have to pay market wages for these employees.
Until this happens, every American should oppose expanding that program.

 

[AnMig]

Its been a while but if i recall h1b visa salaries are usually reviewed by ins. The salary should be not less than the prevailing wage for that job. Then again there are unscrupulous employers that make the contract look like they are paying the required amount but actually give the employee less. This is more common in small businesses than big ones.

A lot of these H1b employees live in 3d world countries and are eager/desperate to get to the us. This makes them easy targets for abuse. 1/2 the required salary is often 2 times than they would make in there country of origin. They also use it as a pathway for citizenship (5years then you are eligible to apply for a green card).

 

[michal1980]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/...re-a-Shortage-of-STEM-Workers-The-Data-Say-No

no stem shortage

 

[Chaotic42]

I'm fine with it, just set the minimum H1B wage to $100,000/yr, indexed to inflation and local cost of living.

Then we'll see what the shortage looks like.

 

[Imp]

Its been a while but if i recall h1b visa salaries are usually reviewed by ins. The salary should be not less than the prevailing wage for that job. Then again there are unscrupulous employers that make the contract look like they are paying the required amount but actually give the employee less. This is more common in small businesses than big ones.

A lot of these H1b employees live in 3d world countries and are eager/desperate to get to the us. This makes them easy targets for abuse. 1/2 the required salary is often 2 times than they would make in there country of origin. They also use it as a pathway for citizenship (5years then you are eligible to apply for a green card).

Not just screwy contracts, they may force the worker to live in apartments they own, a few people to a room. Nice return of the salary they pay out. What are the workers going to do? Complain to the government in a language they may barely speak and risk getting deported?

There have been stories here of job agencies set up just to scam these desperate workers too. They force them to pay a fee to get the visa and, supposedly, a job, then they show up to no job.

This is bullshit and should all have been easily foreseeable. Or more likely, it was and is working exactly as planned.

 

[uclaLabrat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK0Y9j_CGgM&app=desktop

It's an older video so I'm sure some people have seen it.

Anyway, Dr. Michio Kaku states bluntly that the American school system sucks. We aren't producing enough scientists. We aren't producing enough engineers. This is why we have to go to India and China to get the talent.

There would be no silicon valley without the H1B?

Agree or disagree?

The myth of a shortage of scientists and engineers is just that, a myth. Getting a job in the sciences can be extremely difficult, and I had to change careers essentially before mine even got started.

 

[MongGrel]

Thought I'd seen this before from the thread title, it is a bit old.

There are plenty still in affect from my personal experience, or at least were a few years ago at Honeywell, Lockheed Martin, Draper Labs out of MIT, most of the defense places in general.

On an added note, most weren't needed per say, just added to reduce workload on Senior Engineers and would migrate up later on I'm sure over time and status changes.

 

[Fern]

The issue I have with H1B, and why I would be against expanding the program in its current form is that it's tied to an employer, which gives employer undue leverage over employees of holding their immigration status hostage.
If we as a country need these high skill workers, then they should be given a portable visa that they can take to another employer without having to start over. Then employers will have to pay market wages for these employees.
Until this happens, every American should oppose expanding that program.

If true, you make an excellent point.

When I worked in foreign countries my visa(s) was similar to the H1B. It was good for 10 yrs and not tied to the employer.

Fern

 

[Fern]

We have the most advanced military in the world because we spend more on it then the next 20 nations combined.

IMO, we have the most advanced military in the world because (1) we spend money on it and (2) a lot of what is spent is on scientific/engineering developments in conjunction with our universities. My point is that our universities and students are quite good at science and engineering. E.g., M.I.T. works extensively on military research projects as do many others.

Another way to look at it is our military makes a lot of investment in STEM.

Fern

 

[alkemyst]

Commie propaganda.

 

[Craig234]

If true, you make an excellent point.

When I worked in foreign countries my visa(s) was similar to the H1B. It was good for 10 yrs and not tied to the employer.

Fern

It's true.

Lose the job, you return to your country. That's my recollection. Think they'll complain?

 

[inachu]

Since USA companies have been hiring people from India like crazy I have found them dull and dimwitted for those who I have come across.

The only smart ones are the ones who deal with servers and networks. If they are hired for anything else then they are not worth their resume.

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

Since USA companies have been hiring people from India like crazy I have found them dull and dimwitted for those who I have come across.

The only smart ones are the ones who deal with servers and networks. If they are hired for anything else then they are not worth their resume.

Talk about an ignorant ass statement.
So I suppose Indian process engineers, physical designers, analog/mixed-signal designers, etc. are useless?

 

[postmortemIA]

Since Silicon Valley conspired to keep the salaries of engineers down, perhaps it has more to do with cheap labour than a shortage?

Spot on. Goodluck with raising an family on a single salary in Silicon Valley.

 

[Brovane]

Its been a while but if i recall h1b visa salaries are usually reviewed by ins. The salary should be not less than the prevailing wage for that job. Then again there are unscrupulous employers that make the contract look like they are paying the required amount but actually give the employee less. This is more common in small businesses than big ones.
.

One way the employers screw with this is they have two different set of requirements. They put out a job requiring say a BA and 2-years of experience. They actually prefer a MA and 8-years of experience. However they offer wages for what something with a BA and 2-years of experience would want. They turn down everyone that applies they can then get a H1B with the MA and experience they want but at a lower wage. If a US person applies with a MA and 8-years of experience they find a reason to turn them down or the person applying walks away after they find out what they are offering for a wage. When someone reviews the salary it shows that they are paying the correct wage because it is based on the job description on somebody with less experience and not actually the talent they got from overseas. As long as you know how the play the game you can dodge right around the regulations that where setup to protect US workers. Cool isn't it?

 

[bryanl]

When was the last time most college graduate assistants in STEM subjects were not foreigners? It has to be pre-1975.

 

[MrCassdin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK0Y9j_CGgM&app=desktop

It's an older video so I'm sure some people have seen it.

Anyway, Dr. Michio Kaku states bluntly that the American school system sucks. We aren't producing enough scientists. We aren't producing enough engineers. This is why we have to go to India and China to get the talent.

There would be no silicon valley without the H1B?

Agree or disagree?

Actually, this is mostly bullshit.

H1B are paid less than Americans, they just are (I am involved in hiring) so it's cheaper for companies. Plus, the company has you by the short and curlies. They just do. If the foreigners want to put up with this, that's their choice. Most of them will, being that the places in India/China they are coming from are shit holes (just being honest, it's a fact).

This has nothing to do with sourcing US employees, trust me, there is no shortage - companies just don't want to pay it. They can get some programmer on H1B for 65K who is going to work themselves to death or they can get the same American worker for twice that who fully expects nights and weekends off.

Would Silicon Valley exist without H1B? Well, seeing as it was built before all that, and still employes mostly US citizens, I'd say of course it would.

 

[SKORPI0]

http://www.theatlantic.com/educatio...e-world-expensive-unequal-bad-at-math/281983/

The U.S. education system is mediocre compared to the rest of the world, according to an international ranking of OECD countries.
More than half a million 15-year-olds around the world took the Programme for International Student Assessment in 2012.
The test, which is administered every three years and focuses largely on math, but includes minor sections in science and reading,
is often used as a snapshot of the global state of education. The results, published today, show the U.S. trailing behind educational
powerhouses like Korea and Finland.
The U.S. scored below the PISA math mean and ranks 26th out of the 34 OECD countries. The U.S. math score is not statistically
different than the following countries: Norway, Portugal, Italy, Spain, Russian Federation, Slovak Republic, Lithuania, Sweden, and Hungary.

 

[shortylickens]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK0Y9j_CGgM&app=desktop

It's an older video so I'm sure some people have seen it.

Anyway, Dr. Michio Kaku states bluntly that the American school system sucks. We aren't producing enough scientists. We aren't producing enough engineers. This is why we have to go to India and China to get the talent.

There would be no silicon valley without the H1B?

Agree or disagree?

The government should stop backing student loans.
Our economy is a mess and spoiled american children are racking up massive debt for fucking art history degrees.

The banks need incentive to only support students with real futures. Careers that can actually turn a buck.

 

[Imp]

Actually, this is mostly bullshit.

H1B are paid less than Americans, they just are (I am involved in hiring) so it's cheaper for companies. Plus, the company has you by the short and curlies. They just do. If the foreigners want to put up with this, that's their choice. Most of them will, being that the places in India/China they are coming from are shit holes (just being honest, it's a fact).

The sad part is that a lot of those foreigners probably think that the West is a lot more moral, a lot less corrupt, and doesn't screw people over as much. They sign up, come over, and don't expect to be taken advantage of.

Maybe it's still better than being in a developing country...

 

[tcsenter]

I believe there is a need for H1B, and it can be thusly expressed:

Actual need for H1B = n. Proposed need according to corporations = n^3

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

H1B are paid less than Americans, they just are (I am involved in hiring) so it's cheaper for companies. Plus, the company has you by the short and curlies. They just do. If the foreigners want to put up with this, that's their choice. Most of them will, being that the places in India/China they are coming from are shit holes (just being honest, it's a fact).

I think you need to distinguish between "fake" H1Bs (the crap that companies like WiPro churn out), vs "real" H1Bs (everyone else).

My compensation with a fresh doctorate is plenty substantial, higher than most of my experience American colleagues.