The brits are in for a rough ride

[Timorous]

I have no idea whom I'm going to vote for in the next election.

What I would like is a party that prioritises the environment and more socialist policies in general. I'd like to kick the tories out but I'm not sure I really see much benefit in voting for Labour if they're going to act like tory-lite anyway.

I hate the idea of tactical voting (though I did it in the last election for Corbyn), and I'm not convinced of its necessity this time. The UK needs to do a 180 on so many topics, and another Nu-Labour (ie. Blair era) might improve some things a bit, but overall what worries me with Labour is that IMO they have the perception that they can either be true to traditional Labour values (ie. a type of socialism), or they can win elections by being tory-lite.

America has the same problem but in a far more extreme fashion. In America's situation I'd absolutely tactically vote for the Democrats. I'm wondering whether the UK's problem isn't as far from America's as I'd like to think. Perhaps I should just vote for Labour in the hope that a) they get elected and b) that improves the chances for left-wing politics in general.

While the notion of voting for the winning side would be satisfying on some personal level, I know I'm not going to be placing the deciding vote. I'm fine with the idea of just voting for the party that actually (and I cynically acknowledge the downside of this) says the things I want to hear.

Perhaps it's the more mature thing to try to put as much weight behind the least awful, most likely election winner as possible, ie. Labour? Some improvement is better than no improvement, right? Some improvements may lead to more improvements in the political landscape (though I think this will only really happen if the tories are relegated to third place or beyond)?

If only I was rich enough not to have to work or retired already, I think I'd be happy badgering my local MP etc as one of my hobbies.

Imo it comes down to your seat.

Safe labour, vote for whoever you want.
Any other seat, tactical vote for the most likely non Tory.

The polling for the Tories is so poor there is a non zero chance with a good amount of tactical voting that there can be an LD opposition. I firmly believe that we will see more progress with the LDs in opposition than we would with the Tories.

It will also totally change the dynamics of political shows and Question Time etc which may do more to shift public perception than even a tiny Tory opposition.

 

[WelshBloke]

Yea, they lost the other one as well (an 18,000 majority overturned). Can we _please_ have an election now? Or do we have to wait for another 20+ Tory MPs to be caught in sex or financial scandals?

Those by election results are crazy!

It's great to see that poll results are actually representative of real world votes. I mean I wanted to believe that the polls were right but seeing a nearly 20k majority get overturned is amazing! It's like I won't need to tactically vote next election, there's a good chance that my area will not vote Tory!

 

[WelshBloke]

Imo it comes down to your seat.

Safe labour, vote for whoever you want.
Any other seat, tactical vote for the most likely non Tory.

The polling for the Tories is so poor there is a non zero chance with a good amount of tactical voting that there can be an LD opposition. I firmly believe that we will see more progress with the LDs in opposition than we would with the Tories.

It will also totally change the dynamics of political shows and Question Time etc which may do more to shift public perception than even a tiny Tory opposition.

For all the right complaints about the beeb having a left wing bias they give the labour opposition a harder time than actual government ministers responsible for stuff! I listen to radio 4 on the way home from work in the mornings and they are always giving some labour talking head a hard time about what they might do in power about a problem that they didn't make then soft balling a government minister about shit that they did!

 

[pmv]

Interesting that not only has the Tory majority declined since the election (due to the 10 by-elections they've lost) but in fact the number of MPs for _every_ party has declined. Which puzzled me, till I realized the number of 'independents' has increased. Seems that's because so many MPs of different parties have had the 'whip withdrawn' (i.e. been kicked out of their party).

For the Labourites it seems to usually be because Starmer doesn't like them or because they were too critical of Israel, while for the Tories it seems more often to be because they've been accused of serious crimes.

That this group has become so numerous since the election just seems another way in which this subjectively feels like the longest parliamentary term in history. (Apparently there are 18 of them now!).

I mean it started with Johnson promising to 'level up', now we have Sunak offering tax-cuts and more austerity and cuts to public services.

In the course of this single term we've had hard-Brexit, the pandemic, partygate, Trussagddeon (with it's near collapse of pension funds, slump in the £, and massive rise in mortgage rates), horrendous inflation and a cost-of-living crisis, a near-collapse of multiple public services including the NHS, and now a recession. And three different PMs, and God-knows-how-many different health ministers and chancellors. And it _still_ has nearly a year to go.

The US could have gotten rid of Trump and gotten him back again, before we get another election. The Biden administration started a year _after_ our last election and could be over again before we get another one.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I mean it started with Johnson promising to 'level up', now we have Sunak offering tax-cuts and more austerity and cuts to public services.

It seems very interesting to me that political turmoil in both UK and US started with two very similar looking orangutans.

Which leads me to a very interesting conclusion.

At least a significant portion of the white population has descended from orangutans which is why they voted for these two buffoons coz their inner voice compelled them to.

My apologies to all white orangutans, by the way.

 

[biostud]

(If you remember young ones)

 

[mikeymikec]

An independent majority would certainly be a confusing scenario for the UK Parliament

 

[pmv]

I'm not saying the Tories are actively planning to delay or cancel the next General Election by means of some sort of "Enabling Law" scenario.

I realise that would be an over-dramatic thing to suggest. So I'm not saying I believe that's literally their intent.

But, whether consciously or entirely-unconsciously (probably the latter) Sunak does seem to be giving a disconcertingly good impression of someone thinking about doing that - with his recent, completely bizarre, if not outright crazy, "the country's descending into mob rule" speech.

It's not helped by the way he chose to deliver that bizarre speech via some sort of emergency address from the steps of Downing Street, as if we were facing some sort of ongoing national emergency (apparently due to a few peaceful demonstrations over Gaza, plus the unstoppable force of self-promotion that is George Galloway getting himself elected for the umpteenth time - Galloway must be chuckling at Sunak describing him as a terrifuing 'threat' - I'm sure he wishes he was).

I suspect it's more that Sunak is just totally-unsuited to politics, and has no idea what he's doing, and the 'mob rule' he's realy thinking of is the mayhem within his own party, due to the chaotic feuding factions of it.

I’m still reeling from Rishi Sunak’s shameless, dangerous speech | Caroline Lucas

The prime minister’s address on Friday was a masterclass in gaslighting and made a new art form of rank hypocrisy, says Green MP Caroline Lucas

www.theguardian.com

Extremists trying to tear us apart, says Rishi Sunak in impromptu No 10 speech

PM condemns ‘shocking increase in extremist disruption and criminality’ in wake of Gaza war, in sometimes rambling address

www.theguardian.com

 

[darkswordsman17]

One of my co-workers showed me some stuff from social media that made it seem like Sunak had been ousted by some chubby ginger dude? But I couldn't find anything and have no clue wtf that was about then.

 

[pmv]

I just can't get over the sheer hypocrisy of Sunak moaning about 'extremism' when he's the leader of an extremist party that has been furiously trying to stir up division and hatred for a long time now.

It's also not at all clear what he was trying to achieve with that weird random speech. It was just seriously peculiar. In other contexts it would indeed sound distressingly like a ruler preparing the ground for declaring a state-of-emergency or suspending elections or something, but with Sunak it seems far more likely to be sheer cluelessness - that he just doesn't really understand politics and stumbled into this job by accident, so everything that happens seems to come as a huge shock to him.

 

[pmv]

I can't understand how this is allowed to happen. A Tory minister libels a named individual (via "X", of course), is found guilty of it, and then the taxpayer has to pay her libel costs?

The Guardian view on Michelle Donelan: exposed as an online bully, she should now resign | Editorial

Editorial: The science minister’s baseless allegations of extremism in relation to two academics, disseminated on social media, were unworthy of her office

www.theguardian.com

It's also yet another example of the general way the Right bang on endlessly about "free speech" while doing everything they can to punish and persecute anyone who says things they disagree with. The hypocrisy of the Right on this topic seems to be universal.

As universities minister, Ms Donelan posed as a champion of free speech on the campus, arguing in 2022 that “students and lecturers should not be silenced”. Yet it was reported in the i newspaper that in November she requested a dossier be compiled on supposedly extreme social media posts by an academic. The file reportedly carried headings such as “anti-racism”, “transgender advocacy” and “militant leftism”. Ludicrously, the latter category apparently included posts expressing solidarity with strike action by lecturers.

 

[mikeymikec]

I can't understand how this is allowed to happen. A Tory minister libels a named individual (via "X", of course), is found guilty of it, and then the taxpayer has to pay her libel costs?

The Guardian view on Michelle Donelan: exposed as an online bully, she should now resign | Editorial

Editorial: The science minister’s baseless allegations of extremism in relation to two academics, disseminated on social media, were unworthy of her office

www.theguardian.com

It does seem like if the taxpayer is to foot the bill then it has to be demonstrated that this was a department policy decision and multiple heads should roll.

 

[pmv]

One of my co-workers showed me some stuff from social media that made it seem like Sunak had been ousted by some chubby ginger dude? But I couldn't find anything and have no clue wtf that was about then.

Trying to think who could fit the description of "chubby ginger dude". But it does not appear to be reality - maybe someone dreamed it?

I wish Sunak would decide it wasn't worth the trouble and quit - it's quite possible Truss, Johnson and Cameron would all decide to run for the job (all of them appear equally deluded about their respective performances, the first two both seem convinced they were bought down only by an evil conspiracy against them) and we'd have a full-on Groundhog Day scenario, culminating in the complete Canadian-conservative-style wipeout of the party.

 

[WelshBloke]

I wish Sunak would decide it wasn't worth the trouble and quit - it's quite possible Truss, [...] would [...] decide to run for the job

I would pay money for this! It would be hilarious!

Like quite a lot of money!

[As long as none of it actually went to Truss herself]

 

[pmv]

The Tories are literally enacting the weak joke that's sometimes occurred to me - of the guy who does the thing of starting a comment with "I'm not a racist, but...." and then completes that sentence with "...I hate people because of the colour of their skin".

Apparently the Party donor saying that the most well-known black MP "should be shot”, and that looking at her made him “want to hate all black women”, isn't racism or sexism, according to multiple leading Tories.

This Tory long goodbye is toxic for the country – and making Labour’s job ever harder | Jonathan Freedland

The greater the wait until the election, the more reassurance Labour must provide. And that weakens its future mandate, says Guardian columnist Jonathan Freedland

www.theguardian.com

We have a prime minister who took more than 24 hours to concede that comments made by the party’s biggest donor – suggesting Diane Abbott be “shot”, and that the Hackney North MP made you “want to hate all black women” – were, in fact, racist. Until then, it seems, Downing Street accepted the health tech magnate Frank Hester’s insistence that citing Abbott when speaking about hating people who are female and black “had nothing to do with her gender nor colour of skin”.

It really is beyond parody.

 

[pmv]

This is rather disappointing - he'd almost certainly have taken a few votes from the Conservative candidate, but had no chance of winning (especially given the way the Conservatives have changed the voting system to FPTP, which would have ensured he only damaged them). Apparently he's too inept to fill in a form correctly.

Laurence Fox’s London mayor hopes end after errors filling in forms

Former actor and Reclaim party candidate will have his fee and deposit returned after mistakes

www.theguardian.com

The former actor Laurence Fox will not be a candidate at the London mayoral elections after failing to fill in the nomination forms correctly.

London Elects, which administers the mayoral and London Assembly elections, said the Reclaim party leader had submitted the papers shortly before the deadline on Wednesday, which were subsequently found to contain errors.

Fox, who last acted on screens in a 2022 film distributed by the far-right website Breitbart, is understood to have failed to provide enough signatures of support in two London boroughs, while three supporters from other boroughs could not be found in records.

 

[pmv]

Amazing that the Tories are able to get away with putting out propaganda declaring Khan "Siezed power" (by which they mean "got more votes than we did"). Not to mention using footage of an incident in New York to supposedly illustrate "crime in London".

Controversial attack ad on Sadiq Khan made solely by Tory HQ, source says

Spurious video on London mayor’s record on crime allegedly had no input from team of Tory candidate Susan Hall

www.theguardian.com

 

[uallas5]

Amazing that the Tories are able to get away with putting out propaganda declaring Khan "Siezed power" (by which they mean "got more votes than we did"). Not to mention using footage of an incident in New York to supposedly illustrate "crime in London".

Controversial attack ad on Sadiq Khan made solely by Tory HQ, source says

Spurious video on London mayor’s record on crime allegedly had no input from team of Tory candidate Susan Hall

www.theguardian.com

Perhaps it was the Brexit campaign, but I am seriously starting to question the integrity and honesty of the Conservative party.

 

[sdifox]

Welp, UK is set on sending asylum seakers to Rwanda. Maybe they should start with King Charles?

UK passes bill to deport asylum seekers to Rwanda: What’s next?

Government has already chartered planes for deportations to start as early as July, but legal headaches far from over.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[IronWing]

Eventually, even American conservatives were revulsed by pics of children in cages at the border. The British conservatives are still in a league of their own when it comes to rationalizing institutional racism.

 

[pmv]

Welp, UK is set on sending asylum seakers to Rwanda. Maybe they should start with King Charles?

UK passes bill to deport asylum seekers to Rwanda: What’s next?

Government has already chartered planes for deportations to start as early as July, but legal headaches far from over.

www.aljazeera.com

I'd suggest they send the entire Conservative Party, but that wouldn't be fair on the Rwandans. They might wake up one morning and find Boris Johnson was somehow in charge of their country.

 

[pmv]

It's just an absurd policy, that Sunak somehow has become mono-maniacally fixated on. He ignores all the multiple problems besetting the country, while expending vast amounts of political capital and time on trying to fulfill Suella Braverman's "dream".

[She literally announced it was her 'dream' to send planes of asylum-seekers to Rwanda]

 

[sdifox]

It's really sad persons of colour championed this...

 

[pmv]

It's really sad persons of colour championed this...

On that note, the deputy-leader of "Reform" (the absurdly named hard-right party that the Tories are terrified of losing voters to) is of Pakistani background. And he just recently suggested asylum-seekers should be left to drown in the Channel. His own party boss seemed to disown the suggestion, insisting their policy was to instead forcibly take them back to France (and presumably to go to war with France if the French refuse to take them).

Don’t rescue people who scupper their Channel boats, says Reform UK deputy

Ben Habib says navy or Border Force should not save people who throw themselves into sea if they have refused other vessels

www.theguardian.com

 

[pmv]

Another Tory dimwit

UK minister appears to mix up Rwanda and Congo on Question Time

Chris Philp gets confused over neighbouring countries when discussing government’s Rwanda deportation policy

www.theguardian.com

The audience member, who said he came from the DRC where there is fighting with neighbouring Rwanda, asked: “Had my family members come from Goma [a city on the country’s border] on a [Channel] crossing right now, would they then be sent back to the country they are supposedly warring – Rwanda?

“Does that make any sense to you?”

Philp replied: “No, I think there’s an exclusion on people from Rwanda being sent to Rwanda.”

After the audience member objected that his family were “not from Rwanda, they’re from Congo”, the Conservative MP asked: “Well, I mean, Rwanda is a different country of Congo isn’t it? It’s a different country?”