The Bravest Members Of Congress

[jpeyton]

Text

In a rare show of defiance, a large group of mostly House Democrats sent a letter to the White House saying that they will not support any military funding for Iraq unless it includes a complete withdrawal of combat troops, reports Politico's "The Crypt" blog.

Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX) was the only Republican to sign the letter.

"This is a big development," writes Josephine Hearn. "Earlier this year, liberals grudgingly voted for Iraq funding bills because they didn't want to give Nancy Pelosi a defeat. Now it seems that their patience has run out."

It appears that the the showdown between Congress and President Bush is scheduled for September at the next funding bill vote.

The full text of the letter is available below:

Dear Mr. President:

We are writing to inform you that we will only support appropriating additional funds for U.S. military operations in Iraq during Fiscal Year 2008 and beyond for the protection and safe redeployment of all our troops out of Iraq before you leave office.

More than 3,600 of our brave soldiers have died in Iraq. More than 26,000 have been seriously wounded. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have been killed or injured in the hostilities and more than 4 million have been displaced from their homes. Furthermore, this conflict has degenerated into a sectarian civil war and U.S. taxpayers have paid more than $500 billion, despite assurances that you and your key advisors gave our nation at the time you ordered the invasion in March, 2003 that this military intervention would cost far less and be paid from Iraqi oil revenues.

We agree with a clear and growing majority of the American people who are opposed to continued, open-ended U.S. military operations in Iraq, and believe it is unwise and unacceptable for you to continue to unilaterally impose these staggering costs and the soaring debt on Americans currently and for generations to come.

Sincerely,

Rep. Lynn Woolsey (CA); Rep. Barbara Lee (CA); Rep. Maxine Waters (CA); Rep. Ellen Tauscher (CA); Rep. Rush Holt (NJ); Rep. Maurice Hinchey (NY); Rep. Diane Watson (CA); Rep. Ed Pastor (AZ); Rep. Barney Frank (MA); Rep. Danny Davis (IL); Rep. John Conyers (MI); Rep. John Hall (NY); Rep. Bob Filner (CA); Rep. Nydia Velazquez (NY); Rep. Bobby Rush (IL); Rep. Charles Rangel (NY); Rep. Ed Towns (NY); Rep. Paul Hodes (NH); Rep. William Lacy Clay (MO); Rep. Earl Blumenauer (OR); Rep. Albert Wynn (MD); Rep. Bill Delahunt (MA); Rep. Eleanor Holmes Norton (DC); Rep. G. K. Butterfield (NC); Rep. Hilda Solis (CA); Rep. Carolyn Maloney (NY); Rep. Jerrold Nadler (NY); Rep. Michael Honda (CA); Rep. Steve Cohen (TN); Rep. Phil Hare (IL); Rep. Grace Flores Napolitano (CA); Rep. Alcee Hastings (FL); Rep. James McGovern (MA); Rep. Marcy Kaptur (OH); Rep. Jan Schakowsky (IL); Rep. Julia Carson (IN); Rep. Linda Sanchez (CA); Rep. Raul Grijalva (AZ); Rep. John Olver (MA); Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (TX); Rep. Jim McDermott (WA); Rep. Ed Markey (MA); Rep. Chaka Fattah (PA); Rep. Frank Pallone Jr. (NJ); Rep. Rubin Hinojosa (TX); Rep. Pete Stark (CA); Rep. Bobby Scott (VA); Rep. Jim Moran (VA); Rep. Betty McCollum (MN); Rep. Jim Oberstar (MN); Rep. Diana DeGette (CO); Rep. Stephen Lynch (MA); Rep. Artur Davis (AL); Rep. Hank Johnson (GA); Rep. Donald Payne (NJ); Rep. Emanuel Cleaver (MO); Rep. John Lewis (GA); Rep. Yvette Clarke (NY); Rep. Neil Abercrombie (HI); Rep. Gwen Moore (WI); Rep. Keith Ellison (MN); Rep. Tammy Baldwin (WI); Rep. Donna Christensen (USVI); Rep. David Scott (GA); Rep. Luis Gutierrez (IL); Lois Capps (CA); Steve Rothman (NJ); Elijah Cummings (MD); and Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX).

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Undoubtedly, these public servants saw the hopelessness in the latest benchmarks, and know that the result will be the same in September (and indeed, how can any progress be made when the entire Iraqi parliament is taking the month of August off).

One can only hope that the chorus of dissenting voices grows as September grows near, and Congress chokes the life out of Bush's war for profit by hiding the piggy bank. September really looks like the month for the real showdown to begin; I have a feeling Bush will be breaking out the 'Veto Pen' week after week.

 

[Deudalus]

Do you realize you have like 20% of the posts on page 1 now adays?

I think you need a hobby 🙂

 

[Nebor]

Blah blah blah.

It's going to come down to, "Do you want to give the troops more ammunition, or leave them unarmed." And they'll vote to give the troops ammunition.

Political posturing, and that's all. Everyone wants us to be in Iraq. Especially the international community.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Deudalus
Do you realize you have like 20% of the posts on page 1 now adays?

I think you need a hobby 🙂

There must be a lot of good news this week 😉

Supporting my side of the argument, anyways.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Nebor
Everyone wants us to be in Iraq.

Everyone, except...

...a majority of Americans...

...a majority of Congress...

...a majority of Iraqis...

:laugh:

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Nebor
Everyone wants us to be in Iraq.

Everyone, except...

...a majority of Americans...

...a majority of Congress...

...a majority of Iraqis...

:laugh:

Sounds like a lot of people who have no political clout or say whatsoever. If America wanted us out of Iraq, the elections of 2006 would have made it so.

Bring it on.

 

[Nebor]

By the way, your estimate of killed Iraqi civilian is waaaay lower than that.

I have a fraternity brother who just returned from Iraq who told us about the games they'd play (he's in a recon sniper unit) killing Iraqis from 1000 yards plus. They were never punished for killing civilians, simply because it was impossible to ever determine that it was them. 😀

 

[Lemon law]

Fortunately or unfortunately most of congress feels its political suicide to deny funding to our troops. When in fact, its exactly that power of the purse that puts the congress in the drivers seat in any executive vs. legislative battle. And actually only requires a hair over 40% of congress to achieve. Because blocking funding has exactly the same effect as deliberately not granting the funding.

The other metric congress seems to fear is somewhat the Newt Gingrich legacy. And ole Newt, almost a decade ago, decided to use the veto power of the purse to shut down the Federal Government as the killer card against Bill Clinton. And we all know how that turned out---the repubs lost a good part of their congressional majority in the 1998 election and Newt resigned from Congress.

But sooner or later the congress will be forced to use the power of the purse against GWB&co. But thats a sooner or later based on an if and only if other means don't work.
And right now, it looks like its going to be bedtime for Bush in Iraq come September. And in terms of an executive gone power mad and similar Gonzales crapola, the old adage of give someone enough rope and they will hang themselves may well apply. In nearly every area,
GWB&co. are skating on very thin ice.

Time is on the side of congress and time is rapidly running out on GWB&co. And when GWB&co starts to falter---their complete collapse may soon follow.

 

[simondedalus]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Text

In a rare show of defiance, a large group of mostly House Democrats sent a letter to the White House saying that they will not support any military funding for Iraq unless it includes a complete withdrawal of combat troops, reports Politico's "The Crypt" blog.

Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX) was the only Republican to sign the letter.

"This is a big development," writes Josephine Hearn. "Earlier this year, liberals grudgingly voted for Iraq funding bills because they didn't want to give Nancy Pelosi a defeat. Now it seems that their patience has run out."

It appears that the the showdown between Congress and President Bush is scheduled for September at the next funding bill vote.

The full text of the letter is available below:

Dear Mr. President:

We are writing to inform you that we will only support appropriating additional funds for U.S. military operations in Iraq during Fiscal Year 2008 and beyond for the protection and safe redeployment of all our troops out of Iraq before you leave office.

More than 3,600 of our brave soldiers have died in Iraq. More than 26,000 have been seriously wounded. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have been killed or injured in the hostilities and more than 4 million have been displaced from their homes. Furthermore, this conflict has degenerated into a sectarian civil war and U.S. taxpayers have paid more than $500 billion, despite assurances that you and your key advisors gave our nation at the time you ordered the invasion in March, 2003 that this military intervention would cost far less and be paid from Iraqi oil revenues.

We agree with a clear and growing majority of the American people who are opposed to continued, open-ended U.S. military operations in Iraq, and believe it is unwise and unacceptable for you to continue to unilaterally impose these staggering costs and the soaring debt on Americans currently and for generations to come.

Sincerely,

Rep. Lynn Woolsey (CA); Rep. Barbara Lee (CA); Rep. Maxine Waters (CA); Rep. Ellen Tauscher (CA); Rep. Rush Holt (NJ); Rep. Maurice Hinchey (NY); Rep. Diane Watson (CA); Rep. Ed Pastor (AZ); Rep. Barney Frank (MA); Rep. Danny Davis (IL); Rep. John Conyers (MI); Rep. John Hall (NY); Rep. Bob Filner (CA); Rep. Nydia Velazquez (NY); Rep. Bobby Rush (IL); Rep. Charles Rangel (NY); Rep. Ed Towns (NY); Rep. Paul Hodes (NH); Rep. William Lacy Clay (MO); Rep. Earl Blumenauer (OR); Rep. Albert Wynn (MD); Rep. Bill Delahunt (MA); Rep. Eleanor Holmes Norton (DC); Rep. G. K. Butterfield (NC); Rep. Hilda Solis (CA); Rep. Carolyn Maloney (NY); Rep. Jerrold Nadler (NY); Rep. Michael Honda (CA); Rep. Steve Cohen (TN); Rep. Phil Hare (IL); Rep. Grace Flores Napolitano (CA); Rep. Alcee Hastings (FL); Rep. James McGovern (MA); Rep. Marcy Kaptur (OH); Rep. Jan Schakowsky (IL); Rep. Julia Carson (IN); Rep. Linda Sanchez (CA); Rep. Raul Grijalva (AZ); Rep. John Olver (MA); Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (TX); Rep. Jim McDermott (WA); Rep. Ed Markey (MA); Rep. Chaka Fattah (PA); Rep. Frank Pallone Jr. (NJ); Rep. Rubin Hinojosa (TX); Rep. Pete Stark (CA); Rep. Bobby Scott (VA); Rep. Jim Moran (VA); Rep. Betty McCollum (MN); Rep. Jim Oberstar (MN); Rep. Diana DeGette (CO); Rep. Stephen Lynch (MA); Rep. Artur Davis (AL); Rep. Hank Johnson (GA); Rep. Donald Payne (NJ); Rep. Emanuel Cleaver (MO); Rep. John Lewis (GA); Rep. Yvette Clarke (NY); Rep. Neil Abercrombie (HI); Rep. Gwen Moore (WI); Rep. Keith Ellison (MN); Rep. Tammy Baldwin (WI); Rep. Donna Christensen (USVI); Rep. David Scott (GA); Rep. Luis Gutierrez (IL); Lois Capps (CA); Steve Rothman (NJ); Elijah Cummings (MD); and Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX).

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Undoubtedly, these public servants saw the hopelessness in the latest benchmarks, and know that the result will be the same in September (and indeed, how can any progress be made when the entire Iraqi parliament is taking the month of August off).

One can only hope that the chorus of dissenting voices grows as September grows near, and Congress chokes the life out of Bush's war for profit by hiding the piggy bank. September really looks like the month for the real showdown to begin; I have a feeling Bush will be breaking out the 'Veto Pen' week after week.

hey i have never seen a brave man in my life🙂

 

[simondedalus]

Originally posted by: Deudalus
Do you realize you have like 20% of the posts on page 1 now adays?

I think you need a hobby 🙂

dedalus to deudalus:🙂🙂
what you are doing ???.......reading those articles????????🙂🙂

 

[DangerAardvark]

Originally posted by: Nebor
By the way, your estimate of killed Iraqi civilian is waaaay lower than that.

I have a fraternity brother who just returned from Iraq who told us about the games they'd play (he's in a recon sniper unit) killing Iraqis from 1000 yards plus. They were never punished for killing civilians, simply because it was impossible to ever determine that it was them. 😀

WTF is wrong with you? I make off-color jokes all the time. But that didn't even resemble a joke, so I assume it wasn't.

Edit:

Originally posted by: Nebor
I'm from Texas, and I've never heard of him.

That explains it.

 

[Lemon law]

That is the other myth implicit here---namely whoever said--I have a feeling Bush will be breaking out the 'Veto Pen' week after week.

The veto pen can destroy---but can't create---and GWB&co. have no answer to no money. Unless they want to fund the Iraq war out of their own pockets--its just like a car running out of gas----you can step on the accelerator pedal and honk your own horn---but no gas=no go.

And children all over the world understand--if their parents cut off their allowance---they have no money to buy what they want. And even selling their veto pen raises very little spending money.

 

[mfs378]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Nebor
Everyone wants us to be in Iraq.

Everyone, except...

...a majority of Americans...

...a majority of Congress...

...a majority of Iraqis...

:laugh:

Sounds like a lot of people who have no political clout or say whatsoever. If America wanted us out of Iraq, the elections of 2006 would have made it so.

Bring it on.

Yeah the international community has tons of political clout, doesn't it. You say bring it on - why aren't you over there right now? Oh thats right you are a "lifer," you spend too much time on the internet talking tough.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
That is the other myth implicit here---namely whoever said--I have a feeling Bush will be breaking out the 'Veto Pen' week after week.

The veto pen can destroy---but can't create---and GWB&co. have no answer to no money. Unless they want to fund the Iraq war out of their own pockets--its just like a car running out of gas----you can step on the accelerator pedal and honk your own horn---but no gas=no go.

And children all over the world understand--if their parents cut off their allowance---they have no money to buy what they want. And even selling their veto pen raises very little spending money.

When military funding in home districts gets cut and programs diverted; Congress will get the message quickly.

 

[Lemon law]

Common Courtesy has a certain point in saying---When military funding in home districts gets cut and programs diverted; Congress will get the message quickly.

And that well might be the results of our present somewhat brain dead congressional leadership. But I also remind everyone that the same knife that can be used a rather crude and brutish murder weapon can also be used by a skilled surgeon to cure. Its just that no one is congress has bothered to learn to budget---but its a skill that they need to learn.

And were it up to me---the next time GWB&co. invokes executive privilege to prevent someone from testifying---I would be asking who that person works for---the American people or GWB?---and if they want to assume that person works for GWB---well GWB damn well better pay em--because there is no reason the tax payer should.

If congress just does a little thinking---they can target the Budget cuts that hit GWB&co. where they live---and effects no one else. It won't take long for George to get the message---and the louder GWB cries and moans---the happier the American people will be.

 

[alchemize]

About time a few of them sprouted some balls.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: Nebor
By the way, your estimate of killed Iraqi civilian is waaaay lower than that.

I have a fraternity brother who just returned from Iraq who told us about the games they'd play (he's in a recon sniper unit) killing Iraqis from 1000 yards plus. They were never punished for killing civilians, simply because it was impossible to ever determine that it was them. 😀

I hope, for your own sake, that you are lying about having a murderer for a frat brother and bragging about him in an idolizing way. You both need serious psychological help if your statements are true.

If they are true, it says a whole lot about your moral makeup and as for him, he should be rotting in jail as I type this.

 

[alchemize]

I'm thinking Nebor is our latest addition to our current crop of trolls. He's playing the right-winger. I find it very hard to believe that a marine sniper would shoot unarmed civilians for sport.

You might get a hayseed that gets trigger happy, but our special forces are the ultimate professionals. Why would a sniper give up his position to shoot an innocent?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Nebor
By the way, your estimate of killed Iraqi civilian is waaaay lower than that.

I have a fraternity brother who just returned from Iraq who told us about the games they'd play (he's in a recon sniper unit) killing Iraqis from 1000 yards plus. They were never punished for killing civilians, simply because it was impossible to ever determine that it was them. 😀

I hope, for your own sake, that you are lying about having a murderer for a frat brother and bragging about him in an idolizing way. You both need serious psychological help if your statements are true.

If they are true, it says a whole lot about your moral makeup and as for him, he should be rotting in jail as I type this.

:thumbsup: I agree 100%

Also, I have a feeling alchy is right.

 

[kage69]

I'm thinking Nebor is our latest addition to our current crop of trolls.

Secon....err, thirded. I believe he's a frat boy though, certainly sounds like the ones I used put up with.

 

[jpeyton]

Nebor is on phase 3 for conservatives on AT P&N. Phase 1 tries their best to discuss things in a balanced manner; phase 2 gets a little more militant about the conservative cause; phase 3 reduces themselves to blatant troll posts due to feelings of hopelessness for their cause.

AT P&N chews through most conservative posters within 6 months, simply because of the overwhelming amount of liberal support on here. More mature members manage not to devolve themselves into common trolls, but not everyone is of that caliber.

Unfortunately, the forum only allows you to "ignore" entire threads and PMs from a user, not individual posts. So you'll have to refrain from feeding the troll as much as possible.

 

[alchemize]

Methinks jpeyton should be one of the very last to cast the troll stone.

 

[Sinsear]

Originally posted by: alchemize
Methink jpeyton should be one of the very last to cast the troll stone.

No kidding; he's somewhere around phase 7 with his anti-American BS.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Sinsear

Originally posted by: alchemize
Methink jpeyton should be one of the very last to cast the troll stone.

No kidding; he's somewhere around phase 7 with his anti-American BS.

Naw, I'll admit I'm phase 2, though; pretty militant about my cause.

 

[Sinsear]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Sinsear

Originally posted by: alchemize
Methink jpeyton should be one of the very last to cast the troll stone.

No kidding; he's somewhere around phase 7 with his anti-American BS.

Naw, I'll admit I'm phase 2, though; pretty militant about my cause.

LOL; never hurts to be a bit militant on the issues most dearest to you.

AT P&N chews through most conservative posters within 6 months, simply because of the overwhelming amount of liberal support on here.

With CAD and Shinerburke back the playroom here has swung a bit back towards the middle.