The Blame Game- With Pollage!

[Corn]

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM
Deregulation, of course. The same people who gave us the S&L Crisis, ENRON, and the present Mortage Fiasco. Republicans, right?

Anyone that belives that the mortgage industry has been "deregulated" within the past 2 decades does not have a single clue what the hell they are talking about. Please, name me one single regulation imposed on the mortgage industry in 1987, or 1977 for that matter, that no longer exists today. Just give me one, that's all I ask.

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: 1prophet
The sheep blame the shepard for leading them over the cliff and the shepard blames the sheep for not being educated enough to stop before taking the plunge.

What neither realizes is that both were blinded by greed, the blind leading the blind.

I have to ask, in your scenario did the shepard also go over the cliff, or just the sheep?

Only the ones that believed in the fantasies they were selling.

 

[ultimatebob]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: techs
Whose primarily to blame for the mortgage crisis?

I would have to say the buyers. Then again, I believe in personal responsibility.

Ditto! I almost feel like getting punished for being smart and getting a 30 year fixed mortgage with a low interest rate when I bought in 2006, since no politicians are now offering to bail ME out :|

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
^ I think a lot of them let themselves be fooled into thinking their rates would stay low and thus they could afford their loans.

I don?t think it was greed driving people to buy houses, it was greed driving bankers to make loans that the people couldn?t afford.

Plenty of car salesmen will be happy to talk people into buying a car they can't really afford as well. Does that alleviate any responsibility from the buyer not to make a stupid decision though?

No, but flip it the other way around. Does having a gullible buyer free the car salesman from his personal responsibility to not rip people off?

This conservative desire to always blame the little guy is puzzling, especially when it almost always comes with advocating a complete lack of responsibility on the part of businesses. It's particularly strange in the case of the mortgage crisis because it WASN'T just a bad idea from a moral perspective to sell crummy mortgages to home buyers, it has REALLY hurt the mortgage companies as well. It was as stupid an economic decision for the mortgage companies as it was for the home buyers, yet I only see you leveling blame at one of those groups. Where's the personal responsibility for businesses?

I can reasonably guess that you've never taken out a mortgage loan, becuase if you had, then you would know of the multitude of disclosures generated telling you exactly what it is you are signing up for and how much, exactly, it will all cost. Whats on the paper doesn't lie. Stupid people who don't read the papers they sign have no one to blame but themselves. Sorry.

 

[Engineer]

A little of all of the above and a lot of the people who took the mortgages in the first place. Oh, and those damn quick home flippers too.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Corn

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM
Deregulation, of course. The same people who gave us the S&L Crisis, ENRON, and the present Mortage Fiasco. Republicans, right?

Anyone that belives that the mortgage industry has been "deregulated" within the past 2 decades does not have a single clue what the hell they are talking about. Please, name me one single regulation imposed on the mortgage industry in 1987, or 1977 for that matter, that no longer exists today. Just give me one, that's all I ask.

the 'deregulation' that occured wasn't a decrease in regulation and laws on the books, but a failure of regulators to keep up with a continuously changing industry and a general trend of decreased regulatory pressure.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: ultimatebob

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: techs
Whose primarily to blame for the mortgage crisis?

I would have to say the buyers. Then again, I believe in personal responsibility.

Ditto! I almost feel like getting punished for being smart and getting a 30 year fixed mortgage with a low interest rate when I bought in 2006, since no politicians are now offering to bail ME out :|

I know it sucks, but keep in ming when they are bailing these people out, keep in mind that its helping avoid a potential financial collapse which would really hurt you.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Corn

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
^ I think a lot of them let themselves be fooled into thinking their rates would stay low and thus they could afford their loans.

I don?t think it was greed driving people to buy houses, it was greed driving bankers to make loans that the people couldn?t afford.

Plenty of car salesmen will be happy to talk people into buying a car they can't really afford as well. Does that alleviate any responsibility from the buyer not to make a stupid decision though?

No, but flip it the other way around. Does having a gullible buyer free the car salesman from his personal responsibility to not rip people off?

This conservative desire to always blame the little guy is puzzling, especially when it almost always comes with advocating a complete lack of responsibility on the part of businesses. It's particularly strange in the case of the mortgage crisis because it WASN'T just a bad idea from a moral perspective to sell crummy mortgages to home buyers, it has REALLY hurt the mortgage companies as well. It was as stupid an economic decision for the mortgage companies as it was for the home buyers, yet I only see you leveling blame at one of those groups. Where's the personal responsibility for businesses?

I can reasonably guess that you've never taken out a mortgage loan, becuase if you had, then you would know of the multitude of disclosures generated telling you exactly what it is you are signing up for and how much, exactly, it will all cost. Whats on the paper doesn't lie. Stupid people who don't read the papers they sign have no one to blame but themselves. Sorry.

Its the mortgage company or bank that has the responsibility to make sure that the money thats getting paid out will actually be repaid.

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: Corn

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
^ I think a lot of them let themselves be fooled into thinking their rates would stay low and thus they could afford their loans.

I don?t think it was greed driving people to buy houses, it was greed driving bankers to make loans that the people couldn?t afford.

Plenty of car salesmen will be happy to talk people into buying a car they can't really afford as well. Does that alleviate any responsibility from the buyer not to make a stupid decision though?

No, but flip it the other way around. Does having a gullible buyer free the car salesman from his personal responsibility to not rip people off?

This conservative desire to always blame the little guy is puzzling, especially when it almost always comes with advocating a complete lack of responsibility on the part of businesses. It's particularly strange in the case of the mortgage crisis because it WASN'T just a bad idea from a moral perspective to sell crummy mortgages to home buyers, it has REALLY hurt the mortgage companies as well. It was as stupid an economic decision for the mortgage companies as it was for the home buyers, yet I only see you leveling blame at one of those groups. Where's the personal responsibility for businesses?

I can reasonably guess that you've never taken out a mortgage loan, becuase if you had, then you would know of the multitude of disclosures generated telling you exactly what it is you are signing up for and how much, exactly, it will all cost. Whats on the paper doesn't lie. Stupid people who don't read the papers they sign have no one to blame but themselves. Sorry.

Its the mortgage company or bank that has the responsibility to make sure that the money thats getting paid out will actually be repaid.

Why should they if the government and the taxpayers bail them out if they make bad loans?

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: Corn

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
^ I think a lot of them let themselves be fooled into thinking their rates would stay low and thus they could afford their loans.

I don?t think it was greed driving people to buy houses, it was greed driving bankers to make loans that the people couldn?t afford.

Plenty of car salesmen will be happy to talk people into buying a car they can't really afford as well. Does that alleviate any responsibility from the buyer not to make a stupid decision though?

No, but flip it the other way around. Does having a gullible buyer free the car salesman from his personal responsibility to not rip people off?

This conservative desire to always blame the little guy is puzzling, especially when it almost always comes with advocating a complete lack of responsibility on the part of businesses. It's particularly strange in the case of the mortgage crisis because it WASN'T just a bad idea from a moral perspective to sell crummy mortgages to home buyers, it has REALLY hurt the mortgage companies as well. It was as stupid an economic decision for the mortgage companies as it was for the home buyers, yet I only see you leveling blame at one of those groups. Where's the personal responsibility for businesses?

I can reasonably guess that you've never taken out a mortgage loan, becuase if you had, then you would know of the multitude of disclosures generated telling you exactly what it is you are signing up for and how much, exactly, it will all cost. Whats on the paper doesn't lie. Stupid people who don't read the papers they sign have no one to blame but themselves. Sorry.

Its the mortgage company or bank that has the responsibility to make sure that the money thats getting paid out will actually be repaid.

You must be joking. That would hurt the bottom line. Those mortgages were being bundled and sold down the line with quality assurance guaranteed by companies in the pay of those same lender-sellers. It's the fault of investors who believed the credit ratings on those bundles were truthful. They were stupid and trusted the system, the god damned irresponsible assholes. IT"S THEIR FAULT.

And all those worthless bastards that were taking adjustable blow up in your face loans, they were the risk taking geniuses who were making a killing for years and years before.

Listen closely when you flush. You can hear your turds yelling at each other, "This is all your fault."

 

[daveymark]

it's mostly the buyers' fault, but somewhat the mortgage company's fault too.

some buyers simply didn't know that this is an unwise decision, just like some buyers don't know that buying monster cables are an unwise decision. they just believe whatever the best buy drone/loan officer tells them.

that said, while it's ultimately the buyer's fault, they both deserve to live with the consequences and neither should be bailed out.

anyone who tries to use the tired old line "It's Bush's Fault?" is a kook fringe moonbat with a severe case of BDS.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: daveymark
it's mostly the buyers' fault, but somewhat the mortgage company's fault too.

some buyers simply didn't know that this is an unwise decision, just like some buyers don't know that buying monster cables are an unwise decision. they just believe whatever the best buy drone/loan officer tells them.

that said, while it's ultimately the buyer's fault, they both deserve to live with the consequences and neither should be bailed out.

anyone who tries to use the tired old line "It's Bush's Fault?" is a kook fringe moonbat with a severe case of BDS.

IT IS BUSH"S FAULT. He often talks about how many people have bought homes under his leadership, "home ownership is up" thus encouraging people to buy buy buy so they can be part of Bush Salvation and the American Way. He clearly tempted people to buy what they couldn't afford with his get-yours-too appeal. And it's YOUR fault too, you crumb, for trying to give Bush-Disaster a pass. You are to blame.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: Lemon law
I agree thats its all of the above and more. But also agree with techs, that its primarily a regulatory failure still not being actively addressed.

Riiight.

And people like you would be the first to complain that those "tougher regulations" were holding down lower income people, and therefore w/b racist because of black people etc, from buying a home.

Some regulations were eased exactly because of that kind of thing.

IMO, it's the banks and the borrowers mostly.

The banks should be re-examining the "factory line" of professionals involved as well. I mean r/e appraisers and credit score companies, as well as their "models" used in this type lending decision.

Fern

Apologies for quoting myself, but just read in todays paper about investigation of a big firm that examined and rated the mortgages purchased by institutions. So, the "factory line" is being looked into.

Fern

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: Lemon law
I agree thats its all of the above and more. But also agree with techs, that its primarily a regulatory failure still not being actively addressed.

Riiight.

And people like you would be the first to complain that those "tougher regulations" were holding down lower income people, and therefore w/b racist because of black people etc, from buying a home.

Some regulations were eased exactly because of that kind of thing.

IMO, it's the banks and the borrowers mostly.

The banks should be re-examining the "factory line" of professionals involved as well. I mean r/e appraisers and credit score companies, as well as their "models" used in this type lending decision.

Fern

Apologies for quoting myself, but just read in todays paper about investigation of a big firm that examined and rated the mortgages purchased by institutions. So, the "factory line" is being looked into.

Fern

I love the blaming of the rating agencies, it's nothing more than political hackery engineered by those who understand the process but want to make it seem like they are for the "little people". That or they do not know the process and are going on a witch hunt to further their own gain.

1. The rating agencies do not guarantee or say people should buy securities. They give their opinion on what the risk level is, which is nothing more than a guide, not a definitive answer. They can only do so within the constraints of information.

2. The information used can be a problem. History is an imperfect predictor of the future. This is especially true with the exotic mortgages. History wasn't complete and they projected the performance, I believe. Once performance declined it exceeded their projections, falling through the structuring.

Everybody who knows about these products should know how they are structured and that the risk measurements are estimates, not a perfect predictor. However, people got greedy and are now claiming they were misled. Sorry, but a prudent person doesn't buy what they don't understand.

 

[ultimatebob]

I remember being told by some mortgage brokers that I could somehow afford a $300,000 house on my own, even though the monthly payments would have been 75% of my post tax income and I had a $600 a month car loan on top of that.

I blame THOSE people for causing the sub-prime mortgage "crisis", along with every person who was stupid enough to listen to them without doing their own math. That said, these people shouldn't be getting a free ride just because they're lacking basic budgeting skills.