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The Bin Laden dream

Ozoned

Diamond Member
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://geocities.com/pwhce/textaq.html">Al-Qaeda's Revolutionary Model
</a>


"We are now at a critical moment in the war between al-Qaeda and the West, and I think most people underestimate the risks we face. Allow me to paint a pessimistic, but feasible, nightmare scenario."




"Throughout 2004, conditions worsen in Iraq - several countries have withdrawn prematurely from the Coalition of the Willing (including Australia if Mark Latham wins in 2004), and the smouldering embers of ethnic tension in Iraq, stoked by propaganda, terrorist attacks and perhaps Coalition blunders, erupts into open conflict. In November, John Kerry is elected President of the United States. Although Kerry is on the record as saying he will keep troops in Iraq, the deteriorating situation convinces him that he should withdraw all support from Iraq - after all, he built his career on opposing all support for South Vietnam. All other Coalition partners follow America out of Iraq.
The fledgeling interim Iraqi government loses control of one part of the country after another. Large tracts of Iraq fall to tribal fiefdoms and Islamic statelets. Training camps attract radical Muslims from around the world, whose training includes attacks on what remains of the central government. Trained muhajiroun return to other Arab countries, to Europe, to the Asia Pacific and to Afghanistan. Attacks against Western targets become as common as terrorist attacks in Israel have been in recent years.
Meanwhile, in Saudi Arabia, King Fahd dies. The pro-reformist Crown Prince Abdullah ascends the throne, but Prince Nayef, Saudi Arabia's Interior Minister, continues with his soft touch on Islamic terror. Assassination attempts against Abdullah lead the kingdom into civil war between the elements of Saudi society that enjoy the patronage of rival Princes. Soon, the tribal areas of the Hijaz and the Najd blend with those of Iraq. The infection spreads to Yemen, Kuwait, Jordan, Egypt, and further afield. As the revolution spreads, what can Western countries do? Not only would we not have the will to invade after having already withdrawn, but we would lack fuel because Arabian oil reserves would be locked up in failed states.
By the end of the decade, many poorer countries (such as parts of Asia and the former Eastern Bloc) would be unable to meet energy expenses and would be increasingly destabilised. By the end of the decade, living standards would be declining in the West as fuel shortages depressed the world economy. "
 
Originally posted by: conjur
<yawn>

Don't even have the strength to reach for my tinfoil hat.

Why don't you just click the link? You might even find something factual in the read that you could use to substantiate your "Bush lied and therefore" etc. etc. etc. whining. 😉
 
This sounds like some rather elaborate and speculative conjecture to me, but it's interesting to observe that this speculative outcome could have been avoided by not going to war in Iraq in the first place.
 
Conjur, Could you explain to me what you consider tin-foiled about that page. It's a different viewpoint but I don't think it is especially conspriacy laden.

DonVito. I'll have to disagree with you also. Iraq was affecting the economy of that entire region in a negative way. I belive that has an affect on the area that is very negative. The culture of hate and fear that Saddam spread fosters the extremism of the fundemtilists. No, perhaps not directly, but an effect nonetheless.

Now if Iraq can become the stable thriving country that it is capable of becoming than that will have a positive effect on the nations surronding it. Not in the short term but in the long term.
 
Originally posted by: DonVito
This sounds like some rather elaborate and speculative conjecture to me, but it's interesting to observe that this speculative outcome could have been avoided by not going to war in Iraq in the first place.


Heh heh, The part I posted was meant to draw this exact reaction. I like it when people show their true colors. 😉

The link, however is meant for those that can handle intellectual stimulation. Your decision to avoid it was probably a good one ... 😛
 
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: DonVito
This sounds like some rather elaborate and speculative conjecture to me, but it's interesting to observe that this speculative outcome could have been avoided by not going to war in Iraq in the first place.


Heh heh, The part I posted was meant to draw this exact reaction. I like it when people show their true colors. 😉

The link, however is meant for those that can handle intellectual stimulation. Your decision to avoid it was probably a good one ... 😛

Perhaps if you want people to intelligently comment on what you consider the point of the article, you should post that, rather than, by your own admission, using it to troll. I actually have quite a bit of schoolin', so I don't see it as an issue of my lacking intellect per se, but when I see an extremely lengthy article from some anonymous Australian think tank (Word says it has 7,919 words), my eyes immediately start to glaze over . . .
 
What's to say Bush won't withdraw troops? The neocons cut and run? This is all pure speculation.
 
Originally posted by: sMiLeYz
What's to say Bush won't withdraw troops? The neocons cut and run? This is all pure speculation.


IMHO, there is a high probability that Bush will withdraw troops. If things don't go perfectly, I look for the Iraq government to ask us to leave in November. What would be the implications of that happening?
 
the guy is clueless.

america cant lose in iraq, and the saudies have to fight to the finish and start economic and social reforms to win
 
Yeah the situation over there is real bad. Give me a break. This has been BY FAR the most successful military occupation in history. Less than 1000 occupiers dead, unheard of. More than 20,000 were killed after WWII in Germany and Japan up until about 1955. The situation is not deteriorating. And the Iraqi's know that US troops will be there for a long time, a major base is all but guaranteed.
 
Originally posted by: irwincur
Yeah the situation over there is real bad. Give me a break. This has been BY FAR the most successful military occupation in history. Less than 1000 occupiers dead, unheard of. More than 20,000 were killed after WWII in Germany and Japan up until about 1955. The situation is not deteriorating. And the Iraqi's know that US troops will be there for a long time, a major base is all but guaranteed.

umm... 900 in the first 14 months... you aren't very far off a pace for 5-digits in the 10-year period you seem to be comparing. I'm afraid I can't find information on your claim of the number of troops killed in Germany and Japan post-ww2. Please direct us to a source if you don't mind.

Calling this BY FAR the most successful military occupation in history is like calling the pizza you plan to make tomorrow the best you've ever eaten... the work isn't done!
 
Looking at that article, it appears the "Sadaam is a very very bad man" excuse has gone out of rotation.

Quite frankly, writings like these sicken me. This guy is acting as if Iraq was the motherland of terrorism, as if every terrorist would go there and cause havok if they could whether we had invaded or not. They just can't get it through their skull that the terrorists are there because we are there and that we aren't doing them a favor by imposing our beliefs on them - violently much less. Hes completely blind to the fact that Bin Laden (who surprise surprise is alive and well) is the enemy, not some guy who guy who wouldn't throw his weapons in the trash and treated his people no different from the average dictatorship. Its Bin Laden's dream for us to forget who attacked us and focus our war on terrorism on someone else and thanks to bush its all come true.
 
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