The Bill of Wrongs

[imported_Aelius]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Not to lend any credence to the usual right-wing nutjobs, too set in their preconceptions to dare question anything our government says, however there was a video released in which OBL basically incriminates himself.

As I understand it, however, that's only true if you accept the official, U.S. government-endorsed translation. Some claim the translation is inaccurate in spots, and that OBL's comment acknowledged 9/11, maybe even applauded it (don't remember the details), but did not claim responsibility for it. I don't know where the truth lies which is why I'd like to see more of the evidence and understand its sources.


Edit: there are also people who claim at least some of the OBL tapes are forgeries. That seems far-fetched to say the least, but I suppose anything is possible.

If there was proof in the videos that he takes credit for the attack in any way it would be on his FBI wanted poster. Hence it is not. I do recall that he supposedly applauded the attacks and I wouldn't put it past someone of that character to do that. That much is actually believable.

There is also proof that at least 3-4 different people have been officially pictured as Bin Laden. Close up of the faces reveals obviously different shapes in noses and other features. At best they appear to be similar. Maybe OBL has done what Michael Jackson failed to accomplish? If anything I find THAT hard to swallow.

 

[piasabird]

What about taking Classified Documents home in your, briefcase so you can destroy them to keep other elected officials from seeing them, getting caught, and only getting a slap on the wrist???

The penalty should have been a trial with no bail and at least a 5 year sentence.

 

[crownjules]

Originally posted by: slash196
The only civil right a huge amount of Americans care about is to get theirs and fvck everyone else. It's not ignorance, it's not complacency, it's pure selfishness. If they're not personally being detained, it doesn't matter if we beat a few suspicious-looking foreigners to death over made-up charges. It's someone else's problem.

It's sad to say, but there is a lot of truth about this. When people bring up anti-gambling or anti-drug laws, lots of people will claim "well it doesn't effect me, so I don't care" or bring up similar arguments.

They couldn't be more wrong.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Not to lend any credence to the usual right-wing nutjobs, too set in their preconceptions to dare question anything our government says, however there was a video released in which OBL basically incriminates himself.

As I understand it, however, that's only true if you accept the official, U.S. government-endorsed translation. Some claim the translation is inaccurate in spots, and that OBL's comment acknowledged 9/11, maybe even applauded it (don't remember the details), but did not claim responsibility for it. I don't know where the truth lies which is why I'd like to see more of the evidence and understand its sources.


Edit: there are also people who claim at least some of the OBL tapes are forgeries. That seems far-fetched to say the least, but I suppose anything is possible.

Fair enough. I'm basically convinced OBL was either the mastermind of the 9/11 plot, the financier, or (most likely) both. Still, I'm open-minded enough to consider the available evidence and examine the possibility that OBL started the wheels in motion via his leadership and training camps but never had any direct connection to the plot itself.

You never know...

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: syzygy
where is the mention of poor osama's miserable living conditions ? and zawahiri ? we've put these medically-frail old people on the run, forced them to scavenge in
the wastelands of the northwest territories, and for what ? surely our scum-libs can spare a tear or two for internatonal law and All-The-World's-People that our aweful
nation has oppressed.

I'm guessing you consider this a successful implimentation of policy? Well, this scum-lib would much rather see them in jail and on trial. Not on the run and ignored, while our admins are more concerned with depriving innocent people of their civil liberties.

I guess by scum-lib you must mean "an informed scholar capable of understanding the events of the world on an economic and social basis, and anylyze the moral impact such events have on society as a whole."

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: slash196

Originally posted by: Craig234
LeadMagnet, thanks for the reminder.

People like syzygy make it clear how many Americans don't really understand or value our civil rights. It's tough to pick between criticizing his responding without actually addressing any of the issues in the OP in a weak shot of sarcasm, or the larger issue that he's not at all concerned with any violation of rights.

Or, I could note his dismissal of all international law; or his well thought-out argument of "scum-libs", or the complete lack of relevance of his attempt at the analogy with bin Laden.

To him, the civil rights of the OP and bin Laden not being given a comfy hotel suite are all the same thing; he can't tell the real issues from the nonsense he made up.

I'm afraid that appreciation for civil rights is a learned appreciation, and many Americans have not learned it.

The only civil right a huge amount of Americans care about is to get theirs and fvck everyone else. It's not ignorance, it's not complacency, it's pure selfishness. If they're not personally being detained, it doesn't matter if we beat a few suspicious-looking foreigners to death over made-up charges. It's someone else's problem.

QFT. The right of an American is the right to entitlement.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: syzygy
where is the mention of poor osama's miserable living conditions ? and zawahiri ? we've put these medically-frail old people on the run, forced them to scavenge in
the wastelands of the northwest territories, and for what ? surely our scum-libs can spare a tear or two for internatonal law and All-The-World's-People that our aweful
nation has oppressed.