sao123
Lifer
- May 27, 2002
- 12,653
- 205
- 106
Most people are convinced that a God does not exist simply because they do not want one to exist...
people even freely admit on this board that even if they knew 100% that God existed...
(no matter which one...christian, jewish, or muslim) they still would choose to not accept or follow that religion, because they dislike certain traits exhibited by him or certain events accredited to that religion.
people even freely admit on this board that even if they knew 100% that God existed...
(no matter which one...christian, jewish, or muslim) they still would choose to not accept or follow that religion, because they dislike certain traits exhibited by him or certain events accredited to that religion.
jaqie
Platinum Member
- Apr 6, 2008
- 2,471
- 1
- 0
Your post is extremely good, my compliments.
But what I, for one at least, concentrated on was the question posed by the OP... simply "what was here before the big bang?" The big bang refers to the beginning of this, of our, universe, and what was there just before that event. The question of origin as such is not posed here, just what was here just before our universe began.
Jeff7
Lifer
- Jan 4, 2001
- 41,596
- 20
- 81
Yes, this has been suggested - a "multiverse." I imagine it as a region where the sky would sparkle with the "light" of trillions of little spacetime bubbles popping up all over the place, kind of like bubbles of gas coming out of solution in a bottle of soda. Some are so dense that they simply collapse on themselves immediately, while the rest expand and dissipate at varying rates.
It goes back to an issue of complexity though. Which is more likely? An explosion/eruption happens, as a purely natural occurrence. It happens that certain properties are inherent in this spacetime/energy mix, and can give rise to self-sustaining systems that call themselves "life." Not too complicated. We only assign it the term "complex" because our tiny minds can only grasp a very finite amount of information at once. It's not so much that there's a lot of unique things going on, it's just that there's a lot of them. Do you want to fully describe the nature of a glass on your desk? It's easy - just a bunch of atoms, each with fairly similar properties. But there's such a damn huge number of atoms that we can't communicate the associated level of information, only because of the inherent limitations of our brains.
So there's that, a simple explosion or eruption of space, time, and energy. Then there's the notion of an infinitely complex, infinitely knowing, infinitely powerful being that created this realm for reasons we don't know, and for a purpose we don't know. That seems like it's quite literally infinitely complicated.
I think it's more likely that God's half-brother Bob created the Universe, as he's only half as powerful, and thus half as complicated. It stands to reason that it'd be Bob, too, as no one's ever heard of him, thus lending credence to the idea that he's not as powerful.
Damn right. I don't WANT the deities described in religions to exist. They're all freaking insane!!!
Some want you to cut off your foreskin.
Some want you to cut your hair a certain way.
Some want you to wear a certain kind of headgear.
Some smite entire populations of people because they are mildly displeased.
Some cause suffering to prove a point to another deity.
Some expect you to kill animals that they created so that you may make a burnt offering.
Some create contradictory rules for people - thou shalt not kill, but killing in my name is ok, some of the time.
Some just act like irresponsible children.
Some create imperfect beings, and then punish them for being imperfect.
Some deities go to war with one another.
The idea of these deities would be just a bit scary if I believed that they actually existed. They can do some pretty damned disturbing things on a whim.
yours truly
Golden Member
- Aug 19, 2006
- 1,026
- 1
- 81
maybe the universe is on an infinite loop. once its reaches the end of its life, bang, it starts again
who knows
who knows
sourceninja
Diamond Member
- Mar 8, 2005
- 8,805
- 65
- 91
zinfamous
No Lifer
- Jul 12, 2006
- 111,864
- 31,359
- 146
NikolaeVarius
Lifer
- Oct 25, 2006
- 11,036
- 11
- 91
This is a very plaiusble theory
There is one theory that says that there WAS no beginning.
Basically, after a while, the Universe contracts into a Big Crunch, creating a singularity. This singularity has so much energy that it can overcome its own gravitational field, and cause another Big Bang
There is plenty of evidence of the Big Bangs existance, ad if we want to know more about it, we'll have to discover the Theory of Everything First (TOE Einsteind classified the TOE as "his god" as in that it was a equation that goverened everything in the universe, and that its the ultimate god.
The Universe creates and destroys mass in stars. Trillions of Tons of Matter is created and destoryed from energy to energy every second. The Universe can collapse on itself if there is enough mass to overcome the outward expansion of the Unverse. If Dark Matter exists, the equations say,yes, the Universe will collapse on itself. If it doesnt, it wil infinetley expand.
People Look for the beginning. Its like a 9 year olds question to everything. Why? This will hopefully be answered eventually, like everything else that was attirbuted to a higherpower in the olden times.
Its difficult to believe in a god because it IS the ultimatly the most complicated thing, which is REJECTED by Occams Razor.
A diety that somehwo has the power to create mass and energy out of nothing, a diety that can somehow facilitate the development of trillionsof differant organisms, and diety that can somehow come crahsing down to our world, and talk to us in a way our brains can understand isn't extremely complicated? Compared to the Big Bang theory, evolution, and every other conflicted theories, its INCREDIBLY complicated, and so is rejected.
The Big Bang is an explosion of Space and energy. Mabye one day, God Farted and out came the Universe, but I prefer to try and reel back the timeline, and see what happpened. Mabye one day, a qunatum distortion suddenly spat out an amazing amount of energy. But who knows.
I rather live try ing to figure it out that just sit around thinking that some magical being put everything into place
destrekor
Lifer
- Nov 18, 2005
- 28,799
- 359
- 126
btw, no matter is created or destroyed at any point in time. All matter that exists today, existed in the moment immediately prior to the explosion, say 00000000000000000000001 seconds? at this point, time was not really measurable and theory states the first stages of the universe happened in mere seconds, with the universe being rather large very very soon after the initial 'bang' moment. From there, at this point in time, the understanding is 'dark matter' (i.e. some kind of super matter that cannot be detected by any instruments, other than potentially indirect observation of gravity) eventually collected in clouds, and normal matter began drawing towards these clouds and forming what end up being galaxies. This is known as the filamentary theory, or something like that... where matter was equally spread out due to the big bang, but the dark matter caused matter to migrate slowly, and simulations of this occurring show a filamentary organization as time progresses and large clouds of gas of matter slowly organize into galaxies. This could potentially be explained by the dark matter causing a collection of so much mass in the center, creating extremely large stars, that become so large that not even light can escape the gravity well. These become the center of galaxies (as of now, astronomers believe massive black holes are at the center of most galaxies).
but either way, currently science states that all the matter in the beginning was simple: hydrogen and helium. In massive stars, the fusion is so intense that other elements are created, and it is through this that all the other elements were created. When they die and go supernova, they spread their seed into the outer reaches of space. New stars form in this wake, and the heavy elements typically collect in concentric rings around the stars, slowly forming what become planets.
Matter is neither created nor destroyed in this entire process, simply it groups in different patterns, fusion and fission being the method that matter forms different elements from the initial elements.
+
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
- 14,337
- 136
The Big Bang is not an explosion that just happened one day. That is so inaccurate a description that I'm not sure how to even reply to it.
Time is a dimension of space. The universe is an expansion of 3-dimensional space through the dimension of time. That is the "big bang." When one considers that space-time does not exist outside the universe (at least in these 4 dimensions), then the universe is in fact a static 4-dimensional "bubble" to any possible outside observer, and the passage of time as we understand it merely an illusion caused by the manner in which our brains function and likewise our sentient consciousness perceive it.
silverpig
Lifer
- Jul 29, 2001
- 27,703
- 12
- 81
It really bothers me that people say stuff like "I believe" when talking about this stuff. Most people should be willing to say "I have absolutely no idea" on most matters, and this is a matter for which ALL people should say "I don't know." It's not a religion people. There is a definite answer to the question, we just don't have it. This thread is basically akin to the following situation:
Jim flips a coin. He catches it and holds it in his hand without revealing what it is. Bill says he believes it's tails. Frank believes it's heads. They argue about it. One of them may have guessed right, but they're both idiots for arguing something they have no reason to argue other than it might be true. Steve the smart guy comes along, asks what all the fuss is about, then he chimes in with: "Could be heads, could be tails, I have no idea which."
Jim flips a coin. He catches it and holds it in his hand without revealing what it is. Bill says he believes it's tails. Frank believes it's heads. They argue about it. One of them may have guessed right, but they're both idiots for arguing something they have no reason to argue other than it might be true. Steve the smart guy comes along, asks what all the fuss is about, then he chimes in with: "Could be heads, could be tails, I have no idea which."
BrokenVisage
Lifer
- Jan 29, 2005
- 24,771
- 14
- 81
Thanks, and yeah I kinda took the OP's question a step further only because there are so many factors to take into consideration with this topic that you have to go beyond individual theories of origin. For instance, I have a hard time interjecting "God" into any kind of theological or moral discussion, but when it comes to the creation of something as vast as our Universe, and the sheer power it must have taken to do so, then I relent to a point. Being Agnostic, I feel that if there IS a "God" that he a) is/was never like us per se, b) is unconscious, and c) is devoid of any emotional attachment to any race. This ties into the fact that I believe there are other civilizations amongst the stars. Civilizations that are incredibly diverse compared to us due to differing environmental conditions, elements, and other galactic factors that influence an inhabitable planet over time. I just don't think a "God" woke up one day and "decided" to incite a Big Bang, or that he made us humans in his image once this planet was in place, I just don't think the Universe works like that nor could a deity fabricate such a entity in these conditions.
Now, these are just my thoughts and even *I* am up-in-the-air on many of them. Not only that, but I HOPE I am wrong about God, the Heavens, and our place in the cosmos. I HOPE there is more to life then death and taxes. I just don't see it. I mean I'd love to see my family and friends in some kind of afterlife but the REAL Heaven in my eyes is simply being unconscious, not knowing that you once lived and had loved ones. It's vacant, but who said life (before and after) had to be fair and fulfilling? Civilizations come and go, stars form and die, species evolve and go extinct, it's all part of the cycle of life that exists because of something bigger creating the opportunity for it to exist. We are living proof of the eventuality of life under certain conditions, though we're not special and I doubt we were placed here on purpose. I mean we can give thanks and show gratitude for having the chance to live life on one of these countless numbers of planets, but I'd sooner thank our ancestors for getting us through the rough/chaotic times before thanking a being I don't even know exists who may or may not even care about me.
Or then Aaron, the antagonist of the group, comes along, asks what all the fuss is about, and then proceeds to humble everyone when he says "It's not heads, and it's not tails, because the coin only exists in your imagination."
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