I highly doubt that any of you, people citing DX9 as a relevant track record, has the slightest clue about the difference between DX8.1 vs DX9 and DX9 vs DX10 vs DX11.
Doesn't matter. Even if DX11 is a monumental leap from DX9 or even from DX10/10.1, that won't affect the adoption rate of developers and publishers. They aren't "technologists" like you and me. They are businessmen.
Devs and publishers don't think like this: "Hey, what's the best tech around? Hey, DX11 is such a monumental leap from previous DX versions that we'd be doofuses to not spend time developing for it - perhaps even exclusively!"
Instead, they have to consider what their target consumers have. If a stark majority can only run DX9 games, then they will keep producing games that can still run on DX9. In that scenario, producing a DX11-only game is suicide. So at best, they make a game that runs fine on DX9, then add some extra features to accomodate the latest and greatest (like tesselation, perhaps).
I want DX11 next week, if not yesterday, so I like the fact that ATi's DX11 cards are selling out (except the 57xx). But saying it is mainstream now or very soon just doesn't seem right.
Of course, if DX11 cards continue to sell out even after nVidia releases their own line, it might be enough of an incentive for developers to focus on DX11 more than past DX versions.
Or if the next Xbox comes out soon AND uses DX11, then that will definitely cement DX11 status as mainstream.
Until either of those happen, no dice yet.
Devs and publishers don't think like this: "Hey, what's the best tech around? Hey, DX11 is such a monumental leap from previous DX versions that we'd be doofuses to not spend time developing for it - perhaps even exclusively!"
Instead, they have to consider what their target consumers have. If a stark majority can only run DX9 games, then they will keep producing games that can still run on DX9. In that scenario, producing a DX11-only game is suicide. So at best, they make a game that runs fine on DX9, then add some extra features to accomodate the latest and greatest (like tesselation, perhaps).
I want DX11 next week, if not yesterday, so I like the fact that ATi's DX11 cards are selling out (except the 57xx). But saying it is mainstream now or very soon just doesn't seem right.
Of course, if DX11 cards continue to sell out even after nVidia releases their own line, it might be enough of an incentive for developers to focus on DX11 more than past DX versions.
Or if the next Xbox comes out soon AND uses DX11, then that will definitely cement DX11 status as mainstream.
Until either of those happen, no dice yet.
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Win7 adoption is 1337% more widespread than Vista adoption. DX10 was a flop because it was used by Microsoft as a club to beat people into accepting a product nobody wanted or liked (at the time).
We already have several DX11 titles. Weeks after the hardware became available.
DX11 is closer to the original DX10 than anything else. Learning curves have mostly been climbed at the developer level.
And finally, tesselation makes for very visible increases in image quality. Eye candy and screenshots sell games. Even if the main target is consoles being able to post jaw-dropping screenies from DX11-enhanced PC ports will sell more games.
DX11 is relevant. We can revisit this in six months and see if anyone getting a high end ($500+) DX10 only card is still happy with their decision.
We already have several DX11 titles. Weeks after the hardware became available.
DX11 is closer to the original DX10 than anything else. Learning curves have mostly been climbed at the developer level.
And finally, tesselation makes for very visible increases in image quality. Eye candy and screenshots sell games. Even if the main target is consoles being able to post jaw-dropping screenies from DX11-enhanced PC ports will sell more games.
DX11 is relevant. We can revisit this in six months and see if anyone getting a high end ($500+) DX10 only card is still happy with their decision.
Just as I thought - you clearly didn't even understand what I implied in my post.
Thanks for confirming it, though...
No problem, don't mention it
Your post was rather a bit cryptic, so it's no surprise if I didn't understand you immediately.So what were you implying? Exactly the same thing as v8envy just posted?
Perhaps you are right and nobody should be doing that. But there would be those who already have such a card and simply refrained from upgrading. In the OP's case, he is getting the card at a very significant discount. Not really the same as getting one at full price.
If this is the argument why DX11 will be mainstream faster, then no. It's not a developer problem that will limit DX11 being mainstream faster or not. It's that DX9 vs DX11 installations are heavily lopsided as of now. That's why two things have to happen first: DX11 cards keep selling out (very possible), or the next Xbox uses DX11 instead of the rumored DX12.
Now, this is a far better argument. If the devs/publishers think the extra work needed to utilize DX11 in a market of mostly DX9 just for extra marketing power is worth it, then yes. this is actually a great argument. From this point of view, it does make sense and definitely can help DX11 spread quickly. Again, it's not so much as the technical superiority of it, it's simply that it found a marketing value which made it great and can spur adoption.
Am I entitled to a change of opinion?
If the OP is still interested, if it is actually a sure thing to be able to get the 5870, or you have a reasonable card to use right after you sell that 295 and wait perhaps a week or two or more for a 5870, then sell the thing will the price is high and order a 5870.
I believe the 5870, even discounting DX11 for the moment, will be of greater value. You won't need water cooling, it's a lot less power hungry at idle and at load compared to that 295.
As for DX11, you're covered no matter which way the wind ends up blowing:
Scenario 1, DX11 doesn't become mainstream fast enough: You still have a card that is powerful for any game out there. Maybe with the sloppily-coded Crysis as the only exception, the 5870 will smoke anything you throw at it. And, even if only a handful of games get to use DX11, at least you do get to see it for those games.
Scenario 2, DX11 is mainstream faster than the naysayers predict: You won't have to kick yourself for not grabbing a 5870 when you could have had it for cheap (that's the scenario right, you got a 295 for a song, sell it for a profit so as to get a 5870 for cheap?)
Upon re-reading the thread and re-evaluating the possibilities, I have to say I was wrong (heh, wouldn't be the first time)
OP, if you are still interested in this thread, if I were in your shoes I would sell that 295 while it's still a hot item, get a nifty profit, and jump on a 5870. It's a no-lose scenario, practically.
If the OP is still interested, if it is actually a sure thing to be able to get the 5870, or you have a reasonable card to use right after you sell that 295 and wait perhaps a week or two or more for a 5870, then sell the thing will the price is high and order a 5870.
I believe the 5870, even discounting DX11 for the moment, will be of greater value. You won't need water cooling, it's a lot less power hungry at idle and at load compared to that 295.
As for DX11, you're covered no matter which way the wind ends up blowing:
Scenario 1, DX11 doesn't become mainstream fast enough: You still have a card that is powerful for any game out there. Maybe with the sloppily-coded Crysis as the only exception, the 5870 will smoke anything you throw at it. And, even if only a handful of games get to use DX11, at least you do get to see it for those games.
Scenario 2, DX11 is mainstream faster than the naysayers predict: You won't have to kick yourself for not grabbing a 5870 when you could have had it for cheap (that's the scenario right, you got a 295 for a song, sell it for a profit so as to get a 5870 for cheap?)
Upon re-reading the thread and re-evaluating the possibilities, I have to say I was wrong (heh, wouldn't be the first time)
OP, if you are still interested in this thread, if I were in your shoes I would sell that 295 while it's still a hot item, get a nifty profit, and jump on a 5870. It's a no-lose scenario, practically.
- Jun 11, 2004
- 4,359
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Well...I've always prided myself on being 7337 so I sold it for $500 and I'll be picking up a 5870 on ebay within the next 36 hours.
I do regret that I shan't be watercooling however...
Some great arguments. In the past progress has always progressed.
I believe it will be the same with DX11. Personally I think DX9 is dead. It has been pushed to its limits and imho all dx9 games look the same.
I do regret that I shan't be watercooling however...
Some great arguments. In the past progress has always progressed.
I believe it will be the same with DX11. Personally I think DX9 is dead. It has been pushed to its limits and imho all dx9 games look the same.
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I'm glad to see you made the right decision... enjoy your 5870!
FYI you can score brand new 5870 for $409 regularly at Newegg, all you need to do is keep it open (log in to your account) in a separate FF window and enable ReloadEvery, for, say 1 minute?
FYI you can score brand new 5870 for $409 regularly at Newegg, all you need to do is keep it open (log in to your account) in a separate FF window and enable ReloadEvery, for, say 1 minute?
Cookie Monster
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- May 7, 2005
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