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The best video card ever....

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Originally posted by: rbV5
Still holding on to the "shun the 6800 due to it's VP", rbV5?

You could be right, we'll see very soon. (I still think you're wrong and that we'll see hardware acceleration of some sort from 6800s well before Christmas)

Something branded as the "best video card ever" should be free from defective silicon.

By Christmas for the magic driver now? In any event, there is already DXVA hardware acceleration like with most modern video cards, which of course is a far cry from what was promised. If there wasn't some serious issues with the Programmable Video Processor, it would already be working. We'll see what they come up with, I'm not expecting much.

The silicon on that card that I will use is free of defect, and there is currently only speculation as to whether there's any defective silicon. (unless you're some sort of engineer who's qualified to examine the functionality of microprocessors and has found the nV40s to have defect?)

Your "argument" about the 6800s is total speculation and supposition rbV5. You can't just say that the hardware is broken until all the facts are in. It was originally thought the 5800Ultras had inferior AF image quality due to hardware limitations, then 3-4 months later driver revisions improved AF to the point some sites said it was better than ATIs.

You have to remember rbV5 that nVidia isn't just rehashing the exact same core for four calendar years in a row like ATI is? [if this is unclear to any of you: I bought my 9700P in October 2002, ATI is now "introducing" the same core in 2005! (X850)] When you have years to work on drivers and core design, rbV5, you have some time to improve on things. The nV40 is a whole new core design that has been on the market less than half a year. nVidia has actually released a new core the last two years running, each of which is a more advanced design in some ways than ATIs core design they bought from ArtX.

My Rev. 1 9700Pro had all kinds of wacky problems, as did everyone else's, necessitating Rev.2. (wouldn't run on many motherboards, rolling wavey lines)

My rev.1 8500 retail couldn't run stable at default speeds, many others had the same problem.

We don't need to go into the MAXX, as much as I loved it, it had issues.

So you see, when ATI either comes up with something new (8500) or buys it (9700), they have problems too.
 
Originally posted by: Rollo
You have to remember rbV5 that nVidia isn't just rehashing the exact same core for four calendar years in a row like ATI is?
Hey, at least ATI's core works. 😛

Originally posted by: Rollo
The nV40 is a whole new core design that has been on the market less than half a year. nVidia has actually released a new core the last two years running, each of which is a more advanced design in some ways than ATIs core design they bought from ArtX.
Good for them. it's also costing them an arm-and-a-leg to produce the silicon with those 220mil. transistors. ATI had a SM3.0 design too (R500), but delayed introduction, because it wouldn't have been cost-effective to release at that time. They learned from NV's costly 5800U mistake. Also, ATI aquired many of the actual engineering/design people from ArtX, who were formerly part of SGI. Not just "a core".[/quote]
 
Good for them. it's also costing them an arm-and-a-leg to produce the silicon with those 220mil. transistors.
Doesn't seem to be affecting their profit margins.

ATI had a SM3.0 design too (R500), but delayed introduction, because it wouldn't have been cost-effective to release at that time.
Or was it just not done? In any case, what do we as consumers care about cost effective to the company?
I suppose when they replaced the superior 9500 Pro with the inferior but cheaper to produce 9600 Pro, you were squeeling,"Hurray! ATI cut costs big time on slower chips they sell us at the same price!!!" :roll:

They learned from NV's costly 5800U mistake.
Apparently not from the current lines triumph though: $200 MSRP 6600GT owns. $300 MSRP 6800 owns. $400 MSRP 6800GT owns. $500 MSRP* X800 XT on parity Woot!

Also, ATI aquired many of the actual engineering/design people from ArtX, who were formerly part of SGI. Not just "a core".
You are right there: they not only acquired tech they couldn't produce, they acquired the people who invented it. Perhaps the original ATI engineers got to design the dinosaur graphic for the fans, or the chrome bull for the box!



*My bad. If you're one of the 8 people that got one, the X800 XT PE is a faster card with a 2 year old feature set.
 
Originally posted by: Rollo
Good for them. it's also costing them an arm-and-a-leg to produce the silicon with those 220mil. transistors.
Doesn't seem to be affecting their profit margins.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Not true. Nvidia gross margin decreased from 38% period ending Jan '02 to 30% Jan '03 and 29% Jan '04. That's 8-9% is significant decrease in gross margin. It did cost them arm-and-a-leg.
 
Originally posted by: Rollo
Good for them. it's also costing them an arm-and-a-leg to produce the silicon with those 220mil. transistors.
Doesn't seem to be affecting their profit margins.

ATI had a SM3.0 design too (R500), but delayed introduction, because it wouldn't have been cost-effective to release at that time.
Or was it just not done? In any case, what do we as consumers care about cost effective to the company?
I suppose when they replaced the superior 9500 Pro with the inferior but cheaper to produce 9600 Pro, you were squeeling,"Hurray! ATI cut costs big time on slower chips they sell us at the same price!!!" :roll:

They learned from NV's costly 5800U mistake.
Apparently not from the current lines triumph though: $200 MSRP 6600GT owns. $300 MSRP 6800 owns. $400 MSRP 6800GT owns. $500 MSRP* X800 XT on parity Woot!

brother, i have a 6800gt, but i am not such a fanboy half-wit to say its on par with the ati x800xt. x800xt is a better card than the gt, dont be foolish.
 
brother, i have a 6800gt, but i am not such a fanboy half-wit to say its on par with the ati x800xt. x800xt is a better card than the gt, dont be foolish.

You're misunderstanding my post. (and honestly, it pretty much annoys me that this thread about the uber-6800 I'm bidding on has taken this nVidia vs ATI turn)

I was talking about each price point:
At $200, the 6600GT is the best buy.
At $300, the 6800 is the best buy.
At $400, the GT is the Best Buy
At $500, it's a tossup.

You would never see me say a GT compares to a X800XT.
 
rollo i know you said your buddy said it works and a patch or driver will enable it. explain to me why nvidia took the feature off on their site while they left it for the 6600gt? did your friend tell you that? and why would they wanna do that with a vp being physically on the card perfectly fine and theyll enable it soon anyway?
 
Originally posted by: shady06
Originally posted by: Rollo
Originally posted by: ronnn
I'll take the 2 ati x800 pe's thanks. :roll: (things people will say to make a sale). 😉

Errr, Ronn, I'm trying to buy this, not sell it?

It's nice you'd prefer 2 X800XT PEs, some people always like generic things more than unusual things. It's this diversity that makes life interesting.

i pretty much agree with the diversity thing, but only to things others can actually see, like cars and the such.

rare cars = impressive
rare video cards: well, there video cards


thank you!!!!!
 
Originally posted by: Cawchy87
Rollo, you must have a kick ass job, or no life. one of the two for how much you drop on computer parts.

I hunt/fish/boat/canoe 2-3X/week 80% of the weeks of the year. I play coed volleyball in the summer. I'm raising a 4 year old, do all the yard work at my house, have a wife, a career in IS, and like to drink with friends and co-workers when I can.

For a middle aged guy in the MidWest, this is "a life".
 
Originally posted by: Thermalrock
rollo i know you said your buddy said it works and a patch or driver will enable it. explain to me why nvidia took the feature off on their site while they left it for the 6600gt? did your friend tell you that? and why would they wanna do that with a vp being physically on the card perfectly fine and theyll enable it soon anyway?

Got me there Thermalrock. I'm not affiliated with nVidia in any fashion, so what they do on their website is outside of my reality.

 
It is actually an Innovatek NV40 water cooling block on the card. The water cooling is "integrated" only to the extent that it still requires an (external) pump, rad, fan, etc, which is included in the kit. See here:

http://www.hexus.net/content/r...cmdXJsX2hpc3Rvcnk9LTI=

So the buyer would have to take into account space in their case, and how they wouold set it all up.

But the clockspeeds are guaranteed, and it is a cool card 😀
 
Originally posted by: Rollo
Good for them. it's also costing them an arm-and-a-leg to produce the silicon with those 220mil. transistors.
Doesn't seem to be affecting their profit margins.

Nvidia Earnings Plunge
In a prepared statement, Chief Executive Officer Jen-Hsun Huang called the second quarter "challenging and disappointing," chalking up the shortfall to a significant decline in desktop graphics processors.
On a postclose conference call, Huang offered several reasons for the dropoff in Nvidia's core desktop graphics processor segment, which suffered a 17% sequential unit decline.

Originally posted by: Rollo
ATI had a SM3.0 design too (R500), but delayed introduction, because it wouldn't have been cost-effective to release at that time.
Or was it just not done? In any case, what do we as consumers care about cost effective to the company?
I suppose when they replaced the superior 9500 Pro with the inferior but cheaper to produce 9600 Pro, you were squeeling,"Hurray! ATI cut costs big time on slower chips they sell us at the same price!!!" :roll:
Costs to the mfg do affect the prices that the customers see. For example, the decline in the price of DRAM, was one of the reasons why some many low-end cards started showing up in the "budget segment" of the market with 256MB onboard. That wouldn't have been possible if the memory chips had remained relatively pricey.

Originally posted by: Rollo
They learned from NV's costly 5800U mistake.
Apparently not from the current lines triumph though: $200 MSRP 6600GT owns. $300 MSRP 6800 owns. $400 MSRP 6800GT owns. $500 MSRP* X800 XT on parity Woot!
I'm not sure what one has to do with the other, but whatever...

Originally posted by: Rollo
Also, ATI aquired many of the actual engineering/design people from ArtX, who were formerly part of SGI. Not just "a core".
You are right there: they not only acquired tech they couldn't produce, they acquired the people who invented it. Perhaps the original ATI engineers got to design the dinosaur graphic for the fans, or the chrome bull for the box!
More pointless rambling, apparently due to not having any sort of counter-point to express.
I'm sure that ATI only acquired the engineering resources of ArtX, just so that they could pay top-tier salaries, for them to design box-art graphics. :roll:
 
Hey, at least ATI's core works.

They do? How do I enable the F-Buffer on my R9800Pro, and for that matter how do I enable the Full Scene Anti-Aliasing it says that my card shipped with on the box? I can handle turning on MSAA no problem, but I can't for the life of me get FSAA to work at all.
 
Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
Originally posted by: Rollo
Good for them. it's also costing them an arm-and-a-leg to produce the silicon with those 220mil. transistors.
Doesn't seem to be affecting their profit margins.

Nvidia Earnings Plunge
In a prepared statement, Chief Executive Officer Jen-Hsun Huang called the second quarter "challenging and disappointing," chalking up the shortfall to a significant decline in desktop graphics processors.
On a postclose conference call, Huang offered several reasons for the dropoff in Nvidia's core desktop graphics processor segment, which suffered a 17% sequential unit decline.


more current
Nvidia posted 3rd quarter net income of $25.9 million, or 15 cents a share, on sales of $515.6 million compare to earning of $6.4 million, or 4 cents a share, on sales of $486.1 million last year.

Analysts had, on average, expected earnings of 9 cents a share and sales of $509 million, according to a survey taken by Thomson First Call.

On Oct. 25, Nvidia announced preliminary sales would be between $510 million and $515 million and as gross margin expanded to between 31.7 percent and 32.7 percent.
 
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Hey, at least ATI's core works.

They do? How do I enable the F-Buffer on my R9800Pro, and for that matter how do I enable the Full Scene Anti-Aliasing it says that my card shipped with on the box? I can handle turning on MSAA no problem, but I can't for the life of me get FSAA to work at all.

Err, perhaps these will help? Turned up after a quick Googling: FSAA , F-Buffer .
It doesn't appear that the hardware is defective in either case.
 
Originally posted by: Cawchy87
Rollo, you must have a kick ass job, or no life. one of the two for how much you drop on computer parts.

Ok, building PC's/gaming really isn't that expensive of a hobby in the grand scheme of things. There are many, many way more expensive hobbies out there. Plus, this forum has a pretty wide range of posters. Some of us are middle aged, with "real jobs", while others are students with part-time jobs, so a kick ass job to some of you may be pay cut to me (and vice versa). Either way, the fact that there sre students with little disposable income that can even be a part of this hobby shows that the entry level isn't that high. There are many hobbies that you can't even get your feet wet without shelling out a few grand. The major difference between PC hardware and other types of leisure equipment is that PC hardware becomes obsolete much quicker than most. On the otherhand, PC's can be used for more than just leisure, so it isn't a one sided purchase.
 
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Hey, at least ATI's core works.

They do? How do I enable the F-Buffer on my R9800Pro, and for that matter how do I enable the Full Scene Anti-Aliasing it says that my card shipped with on the box? I can handle turning on MSAA no problem, but I can't for the life of me get FSAA to work at all.

Can anyone unleash the mighty paper force of the onboard video decoder?
 
Can anyone unleash the mighty paper force of the onboard video decoder?

No, I was commenting on the incorrect assertion that ATi's cores are fully functional. Show me once anywhere where I indicated the video processor was working on nV's parts. I'll give you a hint, you can't do it.
 
Why? For $500=600 you will be able to buy 6850Ultra (whatever it is) soon enough which will be faster.
Or better yet, for $900US you could get 2 6800GTs in SLI

Now if you truly think there is some coolness factor in hardware, then you'd have to agree that 2 6800Gts in SLI are MUCH cooler than this.....

But I personally don't understand "hardware coolness factor." An iconic car doesnt truly become obsolete since a person has emotions and feelings associated with driving it. Hardware on the other hand, just becomes old junk that runs a game at 3 frames per second (and women certainly arent impressed by it, EVER!) Just imagine some kid sitting in a dark room and squeezing a floppy disk with his might, " ahhhhhhhhhh floppy!!!"

Besides, it'd be cheaper to get 6800GT and watercooling separately. if you really wanted watercooling.

But rollo, I wont attack your obsession with "cool" videocards.
 
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Can anyone unleash the mighty paper force of the onboard video decoder?

No, I was commenting on the incorrect assertion that ATi's cores are fully functional. Show me once anywhere where I indicated the video processor was working on nV's parts. I'll give you a hint, you can't do it.

Please provide proof that they are non-functional then. I provided evidence that they are.

 
Originally posted by: RussianSensation
Why? For $500=600 you will be able to buy 6850Ultra (whatever it is) soon enough which will be faster.
Or better yet, for $900US you could get 2 6800GTs in SLI

Now if you truly think there is some coolness factor in hardware, then you'd have to agree that 2 6800Gts in SLI are MUCH cooler than this.....

But I personally don't understand "hardware coolness factor." An iconic car doesnt truly become obsolete since a person has emotions and feelings associated with driving it. Hardware on the other hand, just becomes old junk that runs a game at 3 frames per second (and women certainly arent impressed by it, EVER!) Just imagine some kid sitting in a dark room and squeezing a floppy disk with his might, " ahhhhhhhhhh floppy!!!"

Besides, it'd be cheaper to get 6800GT and watercooling separately. if you really wanted watercooling.

But rollo, I wont attack your obsession with "cool" videocards.

RS-
Some people collect stamps and think a rare stamp has emotional attachments, to me, no stamp in the world has any value beyond how much postage it can move.
Golfers buy drivers and putters that cost exhorbitant amounts, I wouldn't pay $5 for the rarest or best or either.
Sports nuts will pay $1000s for a ball autographed by their hero.

None of the above will get you women or have any value beyond what the purchaser thinks they are worth to him/her.

This video card, while not a good deal and not funtionally any better than the GT I have in my box right now (coolbits would have me run it at 410/1100 if I were into that sort of thing), is a rare and tricked out card. I like video cards in the same way a golfer likes his Big Bertha, a trap shooter likes his Citori, or fisherman might like his Shimano Stella spinning reel.

BTW- I don't know if two GTs in SLI does have more "cool factor" to me than this card. (although I'd certainly put them close)
 
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