The benchmarks I've (we've?) been waiting for...

[PetNorth]

DAPUNISHER, you are too much generous with me ;-) Believe me, I'd love to write more here, but I don't speak english very well... I'd say very bad :-( and writing my posts here, in english, take me a lot of time trying that they are understandable hehe, but anyway, I'll try to contribute in which I can in this forum .

Well, prove to play with priority process in the background tasks you do (as scan HD, encode video, etc). This tasks will take more time to finish than in normal priority, but who's matter? hehe the important thing here is that you will can to continue working with the main task you do... play a game, editing image, working with a video project, surf internet, etc etc with very little loss of performance in that main tasks, you´ll see how fast open programs, practically withouth loss of perfomance meanwhile hard background task (or tasks) I mentioned are working with priority set to less than normal

 

[Accord99]

Originally posted by: chsh1ca
No, the main point of hyperthreading is to try and recoup the devastating performance hit that the processor takes from having such a bad IPC.

No, the main point of Hyperthreading is to improve performance. Or is the main point of the the A64's ondie memory controller to recoup the devasting performance hit that the processor takes from having poor clockability?

In fact, it is not possible for two threads to be concurrently executed on any HT processor, since the whole way HT works is by utilizing the execution units for the second thread ONLY when those execution units are not in use by the first.

Which is false, since the HT works by pooling instructions from two threads and enabling the scheduler to pick the most suitable instructions to execute, regardless of which thread they belong to. Since the typical x86 application rarely utilizes all execution of a modern x86 processor, there is almost always spare execution resources available and HT is a win-win situation.

All this is is an intelligent way for Intel to make use of the processor while there is still data in one of the numerous stages outside execution. That is why any true dual processor rig will simply outright destroy the P4 in terms of multitasking benchmarks (See Anands Dual Opteron vs Dual Xeon server performance review), and why a Single processor Athlon XP 3000+ can still keep up with a P4 3.0GHz in many types of applications.

HT is by no stretch of the imagination comparable to a DP system, it is merely a very ingenious way of recouping the performance hit Intel took by choosing core clock over IPC.

Shrug, the only people who compares HT to a SMP system are AMD fanboys who don't understand HT. And few benchmarks are multi-threaded, or are run in a manner which HT can benefit.

 

[Jeff7181]

Practically every day, Jeff7187. Where I work, the virus scan runs at lunch hour, and unfortunately I don't always have the luxury of having lunch during my lunch hour.

Are there multiple shifts at your place of work where your computer is used by someone else at a different time of day? Seems pretty idiotic for a virus scan to run while someone is (or may be) using the computer for work. But then again, there are a lot of places of work that do idiotic things and of course they can't be told that it might be a better idea to run the virus scan while nobody would be using the computer. If you're not the only one at your place of work who works during part or all of their scheduled lunch hour that has to suffer through the slowdown scanning for viruses creates, maybe that's something to bring up at the next office meeting. =)

But if your reason for NEEDING to be able to run Virus Scan while doing something else with no slowdowns is work related, maybe you can convince your employer that you'd be more productive if you had 3.4 Ghz Pentium 4 Extreme Edition CPU's!

BTW... this isn't intended as a jab at you, mech. I'm sure you'd agree, that among all the computer users, you're in the minority when having to work while the computer runs a virus check... while home users have the luxury of deciding when to run a virus scan whenever they want. However, you might not agree that running 2+ programs that aren't exactly considered CPU intensive applications at a faster speed is more valuable than running 2 very CPU intensive applications at a faster speed, and that is my view on the scenario. Being able to listen to an MP3 while I'm copying ~50 MB worth of pictures from my digital camera, downloading porn, and working with data in Excel while a file I previously downloaded is unzipping all at the same time is more valuable to me than being able to encode Debbie Does Dalls with Divx 5.11 while I play Halo. But... this is MY opinion so no one can tell me I'm wrong. =) Others might find it more valuable to encode video while playing Halo... if you're one of those people, by all means, get a Pentium 4 with Hyper-Threading, it will do the job better than an Athlon-64.

I know I'll catch some flak for saying what I said even though this is all my opinion and I'm not trying to pass it off as the absolute truth for everybody who owns or uses a computer... so... let the flames begin...

*EDIT* And by the way, PetNorth, your english is very good for being your 2nd language.

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Practically every day, Jeff7187. Where I work, the virus scan runs at lunch hour, and unfortunately I don't always have the luxury of having lunch during my lunch hour.

Are there multiple shifts at your place of work where your computer is used by someone else at a different time of day? Seems pretty idiotic for a virus scan to run while someone is (or may be) using the computer for work. But then again, there are a lot of places of work that do idiotic things and of course they can't be told that it might be a better idea to run the virus scan while nobody would be using the computer. If you're not the only one at your place of work who works during part or all of their scheduled lunch hour that has to suffer through the slowdown scanning for viruses creates, maybe that's something to bring up at the next office meeting. =)

But if your reason for NEEDING to be able to run Virus Scan while doing something else with no slowdowns is work related, maybe you can convince your employer that you'd be more productive if you had 3.4 Ghz Pentium 4 Extreme Edition CPU's!

BTW... this isn't intended as a jab at you, mech. I'm sure you'd agree, that among all the computer users, you're in the minority when having to work while the computer runs a virus check... while home users have the luxury of deciding when to run a virus scan whenever they want. However, you might not agree that running 2+ programs that aren't exactly considered CPU intensive applications at a faster speed is more valuable than running 2 very CPU intensive applications at a faster speed, and that is my view on the scenario. Being able to listen to an MP3 while I'm copying ~50 MB worth of pictures from my digital camera, downloading porn, and working with data in Excel while a file I previously downloaded is unzipping all at the same time is more valuable to me than being able to encode Debbie Does Dalls with Divx 5.11 while I play Halo. But... this is MY opinion so no one can tell me I'm wrong. =) Others might find it more valuable to encode video while playing Halo... if you're one of those people, by all means, get a Pentium 4 with Hyper-Threading, it will do the job better than an Athlon-64.

I know I'll catch some flak for saying what I said even though this is all my opinion and I'm not trying to pass it off as the absolute truth for everybody who owns or uses a computer... so... let the flames begin...

*EDIT* And by the way, PetNorth, your english is very good for being your 2nd language.

I know! :| They should FIRE the idiot who is setting up the computers to do a virus scan at lunch hou--

 :light:
:Q

...oh wait, that person would be myself I'll spare you a long explaination, let's just say that we have our reasons for doing as we have done. And no, no one else usually uses my work computer, it's my own personal property (see, I gots my money where my mouth is, don't I ).

 

[Jeff7181]

I like long explanations =)

 

[mechBgon]

All righty then

[ long story ]

I work for a branch of a region-wide non-profit agency and our branch does counselling, therapy and advocacy for victims of violent crime, rape, sexual abuse (including child sexual abuse), child welfare, domestic violence... this is health-care information, and obviously very sensitive and personal stuff too. It is also under the umbrella of the Health Care Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) and we are obligated to protect it from unauthorized disclosure and from accidental loss or deletion. A lot of our PHI (Protected Healthcare Information) is on paper, but some is also in electronic format.

Imagine your teenage daughter's been raped and comes to us for counselling and therapy. We carelessly let her therapist's computer get infected with a virus... let's say one of the Klez variants. And like a Klez variant will do, it grabs a couple of recently-used documents off the system's hard drive and emails them to the world, and one of those was your daughter's file and treatment plan :Q It gets posted to a website such as... well, let your imagination wander a little here. :Q

What an absolute catastrophe for her, for you... and for us, 'cause you would sue our pants off for it. Incidentally, our employees have actually gotten a few interesting things emailed to them by Klez-infected systems.

So "going through the motions" is not good enough here. The systems check for fresh virus definitions every hour (that's every 15 minutes for the servers), and after I saw how we were left vulnerable for a few hours to MyDoom, I recently added an in-house repository to provide a way to deploy an emergency EXTRA.DAT virus-definition update in just a few minutes, using a combination of McAfee AutoUpdate Architect and ePolicy Orchestrator. This gives us two to six hours' headstart versus waiting for a formal DAT update. My work system's homepage is McAfee's "Newly-discovered threats" page so I can stay on top of breaking threats, get the emergency DAT files if needed, and deploy them. Who knows when the next "Klez" will arrive...

If a virus is already present, that means it slipped by McAfee, but a new DAT version may detect it, hence the daily backscan of the entire hard drive. If there are holes, we want them plugged ASAP, not once a week or something. Since the systems run what you'd call "normal business hours," lunchtime seems like the best time to start the scan.

Naturally, I also try to keep the systems patched up, which would be simple if we had WinServer2003 or Win2000 Server and an Active Directory domain... just use Software Update Services, a free add-on that works great. But we have WinNT 4.0 Server :disgust: and so I get to do a lot of legwork, going around patching ~80 systems manually. Oh well, I'm paid by the hour...

[ / long story ]

 

[Jeff7181]

Paid by the hour means you should switch all those computers over to a Pentium 2 233 Mhz =)

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Paid by the hour means you should switch all those computers over to a Pentium 2 233 Mhz =)

LMAO! They'd have to become a profitable outfit just to afford him.

 

[Duvie]

Ok you AMD ppl here really have nothing to dispute since most if not all of you have not had two systems AMD and P4c side by side...I tested it...I ran same suite of multitaskiing test I ran in my HT sticky thread...You want to know how a Barton 3200+ compared to a p4 3.2 with HT on??? Look at how poor the p4c did in some of thiose task wth HT off in the bios and then figure about 15%slower performance cause a 3200+ in those type of applications is like a 2.8c...

No lag!!! LMAO...you guys and your NAV in the background...Is it scanning the files or just active in the Systray!!! LOL. Fact is it doesn't take full cpu power on my system anyways so I could have HT off and a few things running and probably not slow anything down either.... 8 IE's open big deal!!! DVDshrink....NOt cpu intensive as it doesn't take max power on my system to run and if you are backing up off of your DVD-rom drive the dvd-rom drive can't feed the cpu enough data to max the cpu out...The cpu (at least mine) has to wait for the info and I am using a 16x Liteon DVD-rom which we all know is one of the fastest dvd rippers and copying to a raptor HDD.....

A Barton 3200+ with SETI on in the background and play UT2003 for an hour basically allows me to play as fast as normal in the game however when I am done I got nothing done on the protein.....Changing priorities here drastically affects game play if anything above normal for the SETI, and still the seti gets far less done then the P4...It is just fact....

Encoding and gaming just means I can game with about a 5-7% loss in max fps in gaming and yet still finsih my encoding in times faster then a 2.4c in TMPGenc which is still faster then the Barton 3200+ I tested it on with only the encoding running....

Priorities have little effect with HT as it seems to override everything. I played with each and every one of them and they usually seem to have negative or opposite effect. It appears HT schedules the threads much more efficiently....


My main multitasking app and I do this a lot is Encoding a movie while capturing a show to DVD standards with my AIW card and either on the net, watching a DVD, or playing with CADD.....The fact is even the p4c with HT off would drop some frames and cause some slight jitter here or there with the playback of the DVD....The barton dropped a few more frames and the playback was about equal with the DVD....With HT on everything ran perfectly...That is proof in the pudding ppl...


However my testing and a few other sites mean just about crap to you...I guess we are all liars....I say you AMD ppl need to talk from experience but the fact is you have none.....So get some!!!


Duvie's Out of Here!!!!!!! Cya

 

[PetNorth]

No lag!!! LMAO...you guys and your NAV in the background...Is it scanning the files or just active in the Systray!!!

Obviously it is scanning the files, all entire HD.
Obviously NAV active in the systray, no sense (at least in Athlon LOL ;-) ). 10 explorer open, no sense; 10 programs just active in systray, no sense... 7 programs open, no sense etc

Encoding and gaming just means I can game with about a 5-7% loss in max fps in gaming

Sure? about 5-7% loss fps only? sorry, but... LOL

Let's see: Flight Simulator main task, WME9 encoding in background (for the fps results, I supose with normal priority process):

http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/util_get_image/5/0,3363,sz=1&i=57173,00.jpg

P4EE 3.4 running only Flight Simulator: around 55-60 fps avarage.
P4EE 3.4 running FS with WME9 encoding in background (I think without set less priority for encoding): 17fps avarage (with habitual drops to 7-8fps).

Is this result a 5-7% fps loss?
Is this avarage 17 fps with FS and WME9, playable?

Of course, in that situation, 4fps avarage for A64 in FS, encoding with WME9 in background without set less priority for encoding task, is absolutely unplayable. But, is playable a 17fps avarage with habitual drops to 7fps in P4EE 3.4? Obviously, either (at least if you want to play decently).

This is what I said above, with multi tasking tests in Xbitlabs: a real life multi tasking situation (tests 1 and 2) A64 is better. An irreal life multi tasking situation (test 3) P4C is better (as I said before, is less bad). In that test 3 situation *any* single CPU works decently. So, what's the win? where's the advantage?


Now, another example: Dungeon Siege main task, Sound Forge encoding in background (for the fps results, I supose with normal priority process for Sound Forge set to less than normal):

http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/util_get_image/2/0,3363,sz=1&i=29026,00.gif

Well in this situation, playing Dungeon Siege and meanwhile encoding with Sound Forge in background (I supose, with priority process for SF set to lower than normal -for the high fps avarage obtained-) even AXP 3200+ obtains more fps than a P4EE 3,2. And A64 3200+ and FX-51 obtain between a 25 to 40% more fps than P4C 3,2 and P4EE 3,2.

Yes, P4 finish Sound Forge encoding in background sooner than Athlon, but really is that the objetive in this multi tasking scenario???????? or the objetive is playing game -our main task- smoothly possible and with great quality?????? Who's matter SF finish sooner??? I think, the answer is obvious. And I think is obvious which one is the more recomendable situation. So, I think it's unnecessary I answer this questions here, isn't it?

Priorities have little effect with HT as it seems to override everything. I played with each and every one of them and they usually seem to have negative or opposite effect. It appears HT schedules the threads much more efficiently....

It will be in P4. In Athlon is absolutely great, and it lets you *really* to continue working (or playing) normally, even doing some hard work in background.

Regards.

 

[redpriest_]

Anyone who uses 1 computer to do all this stuff is a serious noob. Why should my frame rates take a hit when I can perfectly encode that video on my P4C 3500 mhz while playing games on a dual opteron box? Why do I have to run everything on a single computer, when you consider, for the amount of hardware people buy, they have more than enough parts to build another box. Sorry, but productivity goes way up when you have multiple computers. I bet you with my setups I can do things a lot faster than you and your HT CPU.

 

[jm0ris0n]

Everyone needs to cool down and take a look at this thread Here .

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: redpriest_
Anyone who uses 1 computer to do all this stuff is a serious noob. Why should my frame rates take a hit when I can perfectly encode that video on my P4C 3500 mhz while playing games on a dual opteron box? Why do I have to run everything on a single computer, when you consider, for the amount of hardware people buy, they have more than enough parts to build another box. Sorry, but productivity goes way up when you have multiple computers. I bet you with my setups I can do things a lot faster than you and your HT CPU.

This is buy far the dumbest comment I've heard in awhile. I think everyone here would take that approach if they could. Problem is, money doesn't grow on trees and that is why we are having this discussion. Hey, why don't I just forget all this P4/Athlon64 talk and just go get an 8 way Xeon machine. Only noobs use desktops to do their work.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: redpriest_
Anyone who uses 1 computer to do all this stuff is a serious noob. Why should my frame rates take a hit when I can perfectly encode that video on my P4C 3500 mhz while playing games on a dual opteron box? Why do I have to run everything on a single computer, when you consider, for the amount of hardware people buy, they have more than enough parts to build another box. Sorry, but productivity goes way up when you have multiple computers. I bet you with my setups I can do things a lot faster than you and your HT CPU.

Yeah, I'm sure everybody has 3GHz+ CPUs sitting around.
1800+ @ 1.72GHz. Fastest thing in this house. You may have a point, but many of us have 300-1000MHz systems or parts around, which pale in comparison at doing anything but office and HTPC work.
Having desktops within a few seconds walk anywhere in the house is great, but not when you need to make MP3s or Oggs of a few albums, SETI or whatever else hogs your CPU's time and bandwidth. The fastest box will have the most uses--that doesn't invalidate the others, but it does mean we try to get the best bang for the buck on our main PCs, and then shell out just enough to keep the others running current software.

 

[Markfw]

I see both sides of this one. I myself have 7 computers, and 3 are dedicated to special services, so HT does nothing for me. On the other hand, how many people have space for that many, or even 3-4 ? So for those people, HT might be good depending on what they do.

 

[Jeff7181]

What's good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander.

 

[mechBgon]

No lag!!! LMAO...you guys and your NAV in the background...Is it scanning the files or just active in the Systray!!! LOL. Fact is it doesn't take full cpu power on my system anyways so I could have HT off and a few things running and probably not slow anything down either....

For home-user-level antivirus software, I bet you're right. But for the sake of perspective, have a look at this: VirusScan Enterprise taking its job seriously

What you see there is what happens when I open Help from within Microsoft Access for the first time after a reboot. This is the "systray" component of VirusScan Enterprise that is running continuously in the background. That was 55 seconds at 100% CPU utilization, and that's on an Athlon 64 3000+ focusing all its power on this task alone.

Yes, VSE is set up to play hardball here, and naturally I can alleviate this particular situation with a policy exception by file type, by folder, or some other tricks if I want to, but I thought it might help raise awareness of where I'm coming from.

(edit: and now you can see why I am not a fan of anything Celeron-powered for use at our office)

 

[redpriest_]

My point is, how many people seriously have only their current pc as parts? What did you have before? Even an old P3 or vintage 2000 Athlon system could still do the job pretty well if dedicated solely for that purpose. With all the talk of people 'upgrading' to newer processors, why throw out the old, especially when you're not going to be able to resell it for that much?

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: redpriest_
My point is, how many people seriously have only their current pc as parts? What did you have before? Even an old P3 or vintage 2000 Athlon system could still do the job pretty well if dedicated solely for that purpose. With all the talk of people 'upgrading' to newer processors, why throw out the old, especially when you're not going to be able to resell it for that much?

I don't have too many spare parts laying around... I sell my old parts to help buy new parts.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: PetNorth

No lag!!! LMAO...you guys and your NAV in the background...Is it scanning the files or just active in the Systray!!!

Obviously it is scanning the files, all entire HD.
Obviously NAV active in the systray, no sense (at least in Athlon LOL ;-) ). 10 explorer open, no sense; 10 programs just active in systray, no sense... 7 programs open, no sense etc

Encoding and gaming just means I can game with about a 5-7% loss in max fps in gaming

Sure? about 5-7% loss fps only? sorry, but... LOL

Let's see: Flight Simulator main task, WME9 encoding in background (for the fps results, I supose with normal priority process):

http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/util_get_image/5/0,3363,sz=1&i=57173,00.jpg

P4EE 3.4 running only Flight Simulator: around 55-60 fps avarage.
P4EE 3.4 running FS with WME9 encoding in background (I think without set less priority for encoding): 17fps avarage (with habitual drops to 7-8fps).

Is this result a 5-7% fps loss?
Is this avarage 17 fps with FS and WME9, playable?

Of course, in that situation, 4fps avarage for A64 in FS, encoding with WME9 in background without set less priority for encoding task, is absolutely unplayable. But, is playable a 17fps avarage with habitual drops to 7fps in P4EE 3.4? Obviously, either (at least if you want to play decently).

This is what I said above, with multi tasking tests in Xbitlabs: a real life multi tasking situation (tests 1 and 2) A64 is better. An irreal life multi tasking situation (test 3) P4C is better (as I said before, is less bad). In that test 3 situation *any* single CPU works decently. So, what's the win? where's the advantage?


Now, another example: Dungeon Siege main task, Sound Forge encoding in background (for the fps results, I supose with normal priority process for Sound Forge set to less than normal):

http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/util_get_image/2/0,3363,sz=1&i=29026,00.gif

Well in this situation, playing Dungeon Siege and meanwhile encoding with Sound Forge in background (I supose, with priority process for SF set to lower than normal -for the high fps avarage obtained-) even AXP 3200+ obtains more fps than a P4EE 3,2. And A64 3200+ and FX-51 obtain between a 25 to 40% more fps than P4C 3,2 and P4EE 3,2.

Yes, P4 finish Sound Forge encoding in background sooner than Athlon, but really is that the objetive in this multi tasking scenario???????? or the objetive is playing game -our main task- smoothly possible and with great quality?????? Who's matter SF finish sooner??? I think, the answer is obvious. And I think is obvious which one is the more recomendable situation. So, I think it's unnecessary I answer this questions here, isn't it?

Priorities have little effect with HT as it seems to override everything. I played with each and every one of them and they usually seem to have negative or opposite effect. It appears HT schedules the threads much more efficiently....

It will be in P4. In Athlon is absolutely great, and it lets you *really* to continue working (or playing) normally, even doing some hard work in background.

Regards.

Not to be overly rude but I see you know very little...especially about the P4c....

Like I stated HT on and messing with prioirites is useless...


I ran UT2003 with fraps (used the F command to benchmark and give me a report when i was done) and those are the numbers I got with TMPGenc encoding to mpeg2 my test file I have used in all my reviews....

PPL need to only look at running multiple apps with FH and SETI to see those programs with their default low priority in non HT situation is absolutely ignored by HT. It is clear it takes over all priority of scheduling....NOw in another app I declared that so many gamers are absolutely stuck on going mach 3 with no drop whatsoever in fps they may not like HT on with any other cpu intensive application.



You priority comment about the athlon also shows you know very little....Just playing with priorities does not make multitasking overall run faster. You are merely changing importance of particular apps and that just sacrifices others. IE if you are doing plenty of appliations and you start dropping frames in a capture you may want to boost its priority so it doesn't get passed over for other apps. However the other apps will now suffer. I played with all sorts of priority settings and the fact is its a tossup on whether it is any better and whether if you are so concerned with one apps speed you don't just shut everything down other then that app to do it.


The fact remains....and I have shown this even with the P4 with HT off....HT on will significantly improve performance when multitasking. Performance, functionality, etc.


I have flight simulator and looks like I wil be installing it and test that claim above.. I don't see it be any more intense then UT2003 at 1280res with high quality on.

 

[chsh1ca]

Originally posted by: Accord99
No, the main point of Hyperthreading is to improve performance. Or is the main point of the the A64's ondie memory controller to recoup the devasting performance hit that the processor takes from having poor clockability?

You're comparing apples to oranges. The A64 doesn't take a devastating performance hit from having high-IPC and "poor clockability". It only improves the performance of the A64/Opteron's memory access in terms of latency. This is somewhat different than cranking up the clock on the bus and jacking up the latency with it.

Which is false, since the HT works by pooling instructions from two threads and enabling the scheduler to pick the most suitable instructions to execute, regardless of which thread they belong to. Since the typical x86 application rarely utilizes all execution of a modern x86 processor, there is almost always spare execution resources available and HT is a win-win situation.

If your definition of a "modern" x86 processor is one that values clock speed over IPC, then yes, by that definition I suppose you are correct. The problem therein is that the K8 is still a "modern" x86 processor and it values higher IPC over clock speed. For the P4s, yes, HT is a win-win (provided your OS is SMP capable). For the K8, the execution units are not idle anywhere near as much as the P4 (since an instruction can get through the pipe in basically 1/3 the time at equal clocks).

Shrug, the only people who compares HT to a SMP system are AMD fanboys who don't understand HT. And few benchmarks are multi-threaded, or are run in a manner which HT can benefit.

Ahh, so you deftly ignore the mention of the Xeon vs Opteron benchmarks here at Anandtech which are methodology-wise very sound benchmarks and then choose to bitch about benchmarks being multi-threaded. You are talking specifically about how HT helps multitasking, this puts it perfectly into comparison with a DP system. To say otherwise is foolish. The P4C can be viewed as a budget SMP solution I suppose.

 

[PetNorth]

Just playing with priorities does not make multitasking overall run faster.

It lets to continue working with normality. That's the objetive. And that objetive is obtained. Point. I'm not in a championship. This is something you don't understand you only see your's bored benches (for me, no sense, nothing).

The fact remains....and I have shown this even with the P4 with HT off....HT on will significantly improve performance when multitasking

Of course, agree. A P4 without HT is absolutely mediocre in multi tasking (Id's say in mono tasking LOL).

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: PetNorth

Just playing with priorities does not make multitasking overall run faster.

It lets to continue working with normality. That's the objetive. And that objetive is obtained. Point. I'm not in a championship. This is something you don't understand you only see your's bored benches (for me, no sense, nothing).

The fact remains....and I have shown this even with the P4 with HT off....HT on will significantly improve performance when multitasking

Of course, agree. A P4 without HT is absolutely mediocre in multi tasking (Id's say in mono tasking LOL).

Well then the last statement prety much rounds it up....

A = p4 w/ HT on
B = p4 w/ Ht off
C = Barton 3200+ w/ no HT

A > B
B = C (in terms of effectiveness in multitasking as seen in my own testing)

therefore...... A>C and that is realy what we have been talking about, period!!!!


If think an Athlon especially the Barton which I am talking about and have made reference to is better at multitasking in te same OS environment then a p4c w/o HT you are smokin something cause it was definitely not true....I saw it in the multitasking test, I saw it in running 2 instances of seti and 2 instance of Besweet mp3 encoder and 2 instances of POV-Ray v3.5...

 

[PetNorth]

A p4 withouth HT is a tortoise moving OS or opening programs. I'm talking about sense, feeling. In the other hand, any Athlon model (and I say any), feels quick, fast response. This is the reality. A P4 with HT, improves this to levels acceptables. For this, is very good HT for P4 (and only for a CPU like P4, for their large pipelines, not for others architectures like Athlon or Pentium M).

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: PetNorth
A p4 withouth HT is a tortoise moving SO or opening programs. I'm talking about sense, feeling. In the other hand, any Athlon model (and I say any), feels quick, fast response. This is the reality. A P4 with HT, improves this to levels acceptables. For this, is very good HT for P4 (and only for a CPU like P4, for their large pipelines, not for others architectures like Athlon or Pentium M).

Oh I see...You mean that hard to measure bullshite??? Dude, I have athlon xps in my house now and have had that 3200+ right next to my 2.4 at 3.2ghz and I don't know what the helll you are talking about....Stuff you are talking about I had happen by simply buying more ram and upgrading to a raptor for my main HDD!!!

I think you need to stop talking case I can imagine any amd fanboy or zealot saying about whatever they want....I give give you hardcore numbers and real data not a sense...LOL!!!