The Baucus Health Bill: A Primer on What's in It

[Fern]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: Patranus
Nice 35% tax on current health care plans that will be passed onto the consumer.

I especially like the part where this tax is implemented in 2013 AFTER to 2012 election

No new taxes on the middle class? Bull Shit.

Yes, because everyone in the middle class has a health care plan that costs $21k/year.

They will if this is passed.

It's an $800 billion increase (splitting the difference between the two estimates).

All the costs shoved onto the medical industry will be pushed down onto us. All the costs shoved onto insurers will pushed down to us.

So premiums are going to have to raise to cover that, and then add in additional costs for those with pre-existing conditions. Then increase it even more as the plans are changed to meet the new higher guidelines (bringig them more on par benefit-wise with exec & union cadillac plans).

Before forcing everyone into a system they say is inefficient and broken they should have fixed it and implemented cost cutting.

There are so many details (at least of those known) I won't go into all of them. But one example is that the credit - the ones illegals aren't supposed to get - will be administered by the IRS as a refundable tax credit. FFS, the IRS isn't set up to determine who is, or isn't a citizen by the info on a tax return, nor will they be. Citizens and illegals here are required (by tax law) to file the same tax forms etc. I.e., the tax credit is likely going to illegals.

Fern

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: First

Originally posted by: FoBoT
so the "fines" are tax penalties? the IRS will be the one collecting the fines? in other words, they'll take the "fine" out of your tax refund
i can't believe they want to make criminals out of people that don't want to buy an insurance product

It's the best way to pay for this and increases accountability from the dopes that truly believe their actions (or inaction in this case) doesn't affect other people when they end up in the ER with no insurance, forcing responsible Americans to pay for it because they thought they were Superman. Obama made a good point about auto insurance, it's the same thing.

BS.

First, no one is required to have auto insurance. You just have to get it if you choose to drive. Some people choose not to drive because of this. The same cannot be said for health insurance.

Second, when auto insurance was mandated in this state costs for insurance went up since the insurance industry KNEW you have no real alternative.

Finally, after all these years it has had NO EFFECT on the number of insured drivers. 1 out of 5 drivers still refuse to purchase insurance, and just become criminals instead.

This does not address persons who have a moral objection to insurance *raises hand*, does nothing to combat the actual costs of healthcare, does nothing to regulate the insurance industry, etc. In short, it's total and utter crap. I would refuse to participate in this, or anything similar. In fact, I have refused to participate in ANY system which mandates private insurance, and I have notified all levels of government of this moral objection. If needs be, I will fight to the death over this point.

BULLL SHIT!

I'm sure you'll fight to the death till you end up in some sort of trauma and end up in the ER on our tab. This has gotta be the second dumbest thing I've read this week.

I beg your pardon, contradict me if you can. Every statement I made is 100% factual. You don't like it, piss off. But unless you can contradict it with supporting evidence you don't get to call it bs.

 

[Carmen813]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: First

Originally posted by: FoBoT
so the "fines" are tax penalties? the IRS will be the one collecting the fines? in other words, they'll take the "fine" out of your tax refund
i can't believe they want to make criminals out of people that don't want to buy an insurance product

It's the best way to pay for this and increases accountability from the dopes that truly believe their actions (or inaction in this case) doesn't affect other people when they end up in the ER with no insurance, forcing responsible Americans to pay for it because they thought they were Superman. Obama made a good point about auto insurance, it's the same thing.

BS.

First, no one is required to have auto insurance. You just have to get it if you choose to drive. Some people choose not to drive because of this. The same cannot be said for health insurance.

Second, when auto insurance was mandated in this state costs for insurance went up since the insurance industry KNEW you have no real alternative.

Finally, after all these years it has had NO EFFECT on the number of insured drivers. 1 out of 5 drivers still refuse to purchase insurance, and just become criminals instead.

This does not address persons who have a moral objection to insurance *raises hand*, does nothing to combat the actual costs of healthcare, does nothing to regulate the insurance industry, etc. In short, it's total and utter crap. I would refuse to participate in this, or anything similar. In fact, I have refused to participate in ANY system which mandates private insurance, and I have notified all levels of government of this moral objection. If needs be, I will fight to the death over this point.

BULLL SHIT!

I'm sure you'll fight to the death till you end up in some sort of trauma and end up in the ER on our tab. This has gotta be the second dumbest thing I've read this week.

I beg your pardon, contradict me if you can. Every statement I made is 100% factual. You don't like it, piss off. But unless you can contradict it with supporting evidence you don't get to call it bs.

All I have to say in response is that you can choose if you can drive, but you can't choose if you get sick.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Carmen813

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: First

Originally posted by: FoBoT
so the "fines" are tax penalties? the IRS will be the one collecting the fines? in other words, they'll take the "fine" out of your tax refund
i can't believe they want to make criminals out of people that don't want to buy an insurance product

It's the best way to pay for this and increases accountability from the dopes that truly believe their actions (or inaction in this case) doesn't affect other people when they end up in the ER with no insurance, forcing responsible Americans to pay for it because they thought they were Superman. Obama made a good point about auto insurance, it's the same thing.

BS.

First, no one is required to have auto insurance. You just have to get it if you choose to drive. Some people choose not to drive because of this. The same cannot be said for health insurance.

Second, when auto insurance was mandated in this state costs for insurance went up since the insurance industry KNEW you have no real alternative.

Finally, after all these years it has had NO EFFECT on the number of insured drivers. 1 out of 5 drivers still refuse to purchase insurance, and just become criminals instead.

This does not address persons who have a moral objection to insurance *raises hand*, does nothing to combat the actual costs of healthcare, does nothing to regulate the insurance industry, etc. In short, it's total and utter crap. I would refuse to participate in this, or anything similar. In fact, I have refused to participate in ANY system which mandates private insurance, and I have notified all levels of government of this moral objection. If needs be, I will fight to the death over this point.

BULLL SHIT!

I'm sure you'll fight to the death till you end up in some sort of trauma and end up in the ER on our tab. This has gotta be the second dumbest thing I've read this week.

I beg your pardon, contradict me if you can. Every statement I made is 100% factual. You don't like it, piss off. But unless you can contradict it with supporting evidence you don't get to call it bs.

All I have to say in response is that you can choose if you can drive, but you can't choose if you get sick.

In part you can...you can choose a healthy lifestyle which will reduce the chances of getting sick, but I take your point. The question is, does that mean you can FORCE people to be a part of something they are morally opposed to which will not have the effect the legislation was intending anyway?

Even with the draft you can be a conscientious objector. With all mandates there are allowances. I see none with this one. The ONLY thing this does is hand a blank check and the reins to insurance companies. Doesn't lower health care costs, doesn't actually get more people covered, nothing.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: FoBoT
so the "fines" are tax penalties? the IRS will be the one collecting the fines? in other words, they'll take the "fine" out of your tax refund
i can't believe they want to make criminals out of people that don't want to buy an insurance product

I can't believe governments force people to buy car insurance!! THAT'S ANTI FREEDOM!!!!

*gets in car accident*

*you're at fault*

*can't reimburse other victim*

*rates rise for everyone*

*is a republican*

So, instead of trolling (as usual), why don't you tell us what you think about this bill that your democrat leadership put forth?

 

[sportage]

This is just the beginning. When it goes to committee they will add a full government option.
As congress people, especially liberals, stomach this plan as is, they will show their anger.
The final bill will look much different. But the good... now at least people and congress on both sides have something with substance they can debate. Before most the debate was mean spirited hot air. Now they, and we, have something we can grasp to consider and debate.

I have to give Baucus some credit for at least molding something recognizable out of his slab of clay. Unlike the republicans who refuse to pick up the clay in the first place.

 

[1prophet]

The reason most people don't have health insurance is due to the cost, not because they don't want it.

Many if they are forced to will buy the insurance that they can best afford (like the cheap plans discussed in this thread Text, which might end up being nothing more than a money pit if they still have to pay the majority of costs out of pocket.