The ARM v.s. Intel Thing - Let's Discuss It

[NTMBK]

Good to see Intel saying Silvermont should hit this year- I really wasn't expecting it, and it was a pleasant surprise. Just hope they can deliver, Windows 8 needs more awesome flagship tablets.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Good to see Intel saying Silvermont should hit this year- I really wasn't expecting it, and it was a pleasant surprise. Just hope they can deliver, Windows 8 needs more awesome flagship tablets.

Windows 8 needs to drop tablets

Adoption of Windows 8 is 1.78% or so. Around 3x less than Windows 7 at the same point. Even Vista sold more than Windows 8 compared.

 

[MightyMalus]

So now we gotta wait and see how the new ARM chips perform against it.
I mean, they have a year...lol Tegra 5, Exynos 6, SnapDragon S6, Apple A7, [insert unannounced next gen ARM chips here]. Rofl...

 

[NTMBK]

Windows 8 needs to drop tablets

Adoption of Windows 8 is 1.78% or so. Around 3x less than Windows 7 at the same point. Even Vista sold more than Windows 8 compared.

Unless they did a service pack which basically turned it back into Windows 7.5, I don't think that's going to happen. But when we have the x86 tablet silicon we need, they could be pretty awesome. Neither AMD or Intel really brought their A-game in time for launch, and it shows. And I'd rather see Windows 8 give everyone a good kicking than to see it sink into a sludge of WinRT and Android.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Unless they did a service pack which basically turned it back into Windows 7.5, I don't think that's going to happen. But when we have the x86 tablet silicon we need, they could be pretty awesome. Neither AMD or Intel really brought their A-game in time for launch, and it shows. And I'd rather see Windows 8 give everyone a good kicking than to see it sink into a sludge of WinRT and Android.

I feel pretty confident in claiming that WinRT is already dead. AMD sells more 8 core bulldozer/pilediver chips than there are WinRT devices shipped

 

[Nemesis 1]

Yes give windows 8 a little space I think its going to be fine

 

[Nemesis 1]

What made-up story are you talking about?

The slide we saw says early 2014 for Bay Trail (all versions). Silvermont is not just Bay Trail. It doesn't include Merrifield. Given that Medfield came out (well) before Clovertrail it wouldn't be surprising to see a repeat for Silvermont SoCs. Of course this isn't even considering the server chips.

I said many times I didn't believe those were All intel slides .Merrifield is part of bay trail its the 2 core model with SOIX the other 2 showed C7 states . THat would be the BAYtrail T that on phone. They didn't show the single core either . I remember intel saying . Its not going to be like it use to be . Products will be shipped without our knowing it as time to market is the differance as your bringing a total solution and not a cpu in the box.

Now the chart that was on. that was an intel graph but there were some that just didn't work out. You guys had me going tho I did start believing the hype myself . Thats why Bob called me . To tell me to not pay attention to what was being hyped .

 

[Exophase]

You also said many times that Merrifield was the chip coming out in Q1 2013, that it couldn't be possibly be a refresh of 32nm Saltwell SoCs. So while the slide may have been wrong it was a lot closer than what you insisted..

The announcement doesn't necessarily mean the slides were fabricated, it could just mean that Intel has refined the launch expectations and believe they can hit a more aggressive market. This isn't that unheard of. For instance, when Cortex-A15 was first announced ARM said the first devices would ship in 2013. Later they refined it to late 2012, which is in fact when we got the first Cortex-A15 devices.

I'm pretty sure that Merrifield is not Bay Trail-T, the same way Medfield is not part of Clover Trail. Bay Trail-T is a 3W tablet chip. You know, that's what the "T" stands for.

 

[djgandy]

That's from nVidia's press statement:

http://nvidianews.nvidia.com/Releases/NVIDIA-Introduces-World-s-Fastest-Mobile-Processor-8ed.aspx


But i'm little disappointed by the lack of information by nVidia:
No release date of products, nothing on the GPU, nothing on the site.


I hope they will fill all the blanks in the next hours.

Classic Nvidia marketing. Make a load of claims, then give a battery life measurement which is completely unrelated to all the components they just made a claim about. When playing back video most of the SoC is powered down!

 

[Nemesis 1]

Well the arm people are not standing still '

From Inquirer


Samsung unveiled its eight-core Octa Exynos 5 processor at CES on Wednesday, which is likely to feature in its Galaxy S4 smartphone.

Making up for its lack of high profile announcements at this year's Las Vegas consumer electronics show today, Samsung unwrapped the eight-core chip designed for use in smartphones and tablets.

Samsung said that the Octa Exynos 5 chip is much faster than its previous processors including the Exynos 4, and boasts much lower power consumption. That's because the chip is split into two sets of quad-core processors that both use ARM's new Big.little processor technology, pairing an energy efficient ARM Cortex A7 chip with a more powerful Cortex A15 multicore chip.

According to Samsung, the chip is faster than its Exynos 5 dual-core chip that features in the Google Nexus 10 - presently the fastest Android tablet available on the market today, and claims it will bring a new level of processing power to mobile devices. It said that this chip will also bring a much more impressive gaming experience to its next generation mobile products, and will easily handle HD media streaming.

That's not to say your next Samsung smartphone will have poor battery life though, as Samsung claimed the eight-core processor is up to 70 percent more energy efficient than its previous Exynos chips.

There's no word yet on when Samsung's eight-core Exynos 5 processor will start shipping, but we'll be very surprised if it doesn't appear in the firm's next generation Galaxy flagship smartphone. We're likely to hear more at the Mobile World Congress show in Barcelona next month.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Well I showed Samsungs 8 core .

Here is the brand new Z2580 dual core with HT. In a phone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlCwWGRGRV4

 

[Nemesis 1]

You also said many times that Merrifield was the chip coming out in Q1 2013, that it couldn't be possibly be a refresh of 32nm Saltwell SoCs. So while the slide may have been wrong it was a lot closer than what you insisted..

The announcement doesn't necessarily mean the slides were fabricated, it could just mean that Intel has refined the launch expectations and believe they can hit a more aggressive market. This isn't that unheard of. For instance, when Cortex-A15 was first announced ARM said the first devices would ship in 2013. Later they refined it to late 2012, which is in fact when we got the first Cortex-A15 devices.

I'm pretty sure that Merrifield is not Bay Trail-T, the same way Medfield is not part of Clover Trail. Bay Trail-T is a 3W tablet chip. You know, that's what the "T" stands for.

No what I said was the chip would be released . We seen medfield at last years show how many months did it take to get to market on an intel referrance model . motorola took way longer as they used their own design. Lenovo Just showed the new Z2580 with dual cores with Ht . Bay Trail T is not a 3 watt chip it is a <3 watt chip and yes it is the phone chip Same as samsungs new 8 core is a phone chip , Intel isn't going to announce a chip release unless its an event of some sort. If no events at release time no announcement until an event . I will bet that silvermont is shiping already or will be in a month. Bay Trail T has SOiX that would be the phone the other 2 bay trails have C6or 7 I don't recall failing memory. When Intel annouced Haswell Soc /SOiX they said that it came from medfield arch . So yes the Soix is in fact the phone chip

Well i like the dodge ball game your playing but intels recent annoucment is exactly what they said last year , So no nothing was moved up or back . Its as it was always stated by intel . When we see products we see products . Intel doesn't care about time this time. They have new product Z2580 in product right now but it wont ship until lenovo has enough supply built up . Thats why I said having a cpu to show in these handhelds is along time from product on the sales floor . When was it Intel announced shipping the Z2580 , It was some time ago. Me myself don't care about these chips but they are important to intel. The only thing I want to see is what graphics chip is on the Z2580 W it should be intel I hope. Also that company that said they put hondo into a tablet lied . Intel has a chip shipping that will easily do 1080p Hell the Z2580 has 2 gpus thats for the phone the Z2580 W Windows is a single chip doesn't take much thinking to know where the single core gpu comes from .

 

[MightyMalus]

Also that company that said they put hondo into a tablet lied .

Proof?

Intel has a chip shipping that will easily do 1080p Hell the Z2580 has 2 gpus thats for the phone

1080p? Aww, things changed. The number now is 1440p.

Where are the specs of that Z2580? Because I see ONE gpu in it.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Proof?



1080p? Aww, things changed. The number now is 1440p.

Where are the specs of that Z2580? Because I see ONE gpu in it.

The proof is the Z2580 that was shipping months ago . The proof will come when we see it on a 1080 screen . Look get use to that . Intel told long ago these product releases will be nothing like anything we are use to seeing . So far they are correct . The Z2580 for phones uses 2 gpus the Z2580W is single gpu core that for windows tablets ect. It should be IVB hd 4000 graphics but only 4 eu . That I not sure about HD2500 should have been used if its only 4 eu , Why would intel say HD4000 . AT reported it as 4 eu thats the only info I have seen on the gpu.

Which Z2580 are you talking about The Z2580 w . The other Z2580 has a letter behind it also I don't recall that letter I going to go find the intel slide that has the info you want . Its in another topic here I just don't recall the topic . Having a struggle with recall .

 

[Nemesis 1]

Here ya go now you know all i know about the Z2580 and I don't know if its tru .

Intel has been trying to get its processors inside more smartphones and tablets. However, the company isn't forgetting the fact that it has a long and healthy relationship with Microsoft and its Windows division. This week, as part of its announcements at the Mobile World Congress trade show, Intel announced plans for a new processor and also a chip that could be used inside Windows 8-based tablets.

As reported by News.com, Intel's new smartphone processor is the Z2580 Atom chip. It's got two cores, has a clock speed of up to 1.8 GHz and has the PowerVR SGX 544MP2 chip inside for graphics. That chip has the code name Clover Trail L but it likely won't be made available for smartphones until sometime in 2013.

However, Intel also announced a variant of that chip called Clover Tail W. That chip could be released by the end of 2012 but it only has a single core graphics engine. The story speculates that chip could be used by PC makers to power a Windows 8-based tablet product.

Intel has not officially commented on its plans for Clover Tail W. However, there are rumors that HP will have at least two x86 tablets with Windows 8 by the end of the year. It's possible that one or both could be using Intel's Clover Tail W processor

 

[Nemesis 1]

Proof?



1080p? Aww, things changed. The number now is 1440p.

Where are the specs of that Z2580? Because I see ONE gpu in it.

ARE you sure you only see 1 gpu I see 2 on the phone PowerVR SGX 544MP2

1920x1080

 

[MightyMalus]

ARE you sure you only see 1 gpu I see 2 on the phone PowerVR SGX 544MP2

1920x1080

I have seen SGX544 mentioned on the Z2580. Not SGX544MP2. That's why I asked for proof.

EDIT: I see it does have the SGX544MP2 now. Getting info on that fact makes it still be outdated and outclassed by what's already out there.

 

[CHADBOGA]

Well the arm people are not standing still '

From Inquirer


Samsung unveiled its eight-core Octa Exynos 5 processor at CES on Wednesday, which is likely to feature in its Galaxy S4 smartphone.

Making up for its lack of high profile announcements at this year's Las Vegas consumer electronics show today, Samsung unwrapped the eight-core chip designed for use in smartphones and tablets.

Samsung said that the Octa Exynos 5 chip is much faster than its previous processors including the Exynos 4, and boasts much lower power consumption. That's because the chip is split into two sets of quad-core processors that both use ARM's new Big.little processor technology, pairing an energy efficient ARM Cortex A7 chip with a more powerful Cortex A15 multicore chip.

According to Samsung, the chip is faster than its Exynos 5 dual-core chip that features in the Google Nexus 10 - presently the fastest Android tablet available on the market today, and claims it will bring a new level of processing power to mobile devices. It said that this chip will also bring a much more impressive gaming experience to its next generation mobile products, and will easily handle HD media streaming.

That's not to say your next Samsung smartphone will have poor battery life though, as Samsung claimed the eight-core processor is up to 70 percent more energy efficient than its previous Exynos chips.

There's no word yet on when Samsung's eight-core Exynos 5 processor will start shipping, but we'll be very surprised if it doesn't appear in the firm's next generation Galaxy flagship smartphone. We're likely to hear more at the Mobile World Congress show in Barcelona next month.

8 Cores is overkill for most desktop users, surely it is even more so for Phone and Tablet users?

 

[Idontcare]

8 Cores is overkill for most desktop users, surely it is even more so for Phone and Tablet users?

All depends on the software.

8 cores is overkill for desktop users because the majority of the software apps that desktop users have at their disposal are not optimized to take advantage of those extra cores. And the desktop software design cycle is practically as lengthy as that for CPU design itself (4-5yrs).

The phone market, basically anything that is associated with the much more lively, nimbler, and fast-paced situation that comes with a freelance programmer's outlet like an "app store" is going to see much faster software design cycles which will result in a far faster uptick of software products that can actually take advantage of the 8 cores.

Think evolution. It all comes down to average lifespan and frequency of new generations. Things that live for 100yrs take much longer to evolve and adapt in comparison to little critters that might live a week or two on average.

The disposable nature of the phone market ensures new generations of hardware on a much faster timeline than the desktop, and it shows in the pace of software evolution as well.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Ya thats the way I understood it also IDC ., Intels new z2580L is 2 core 4 threaded but android only makes use of 1 core for the time being. When intel announced Silverment and said it was 4 core no HT . I thought Why. Intel felt they didn't need it . I suppose if need be they can add Ht later.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Remember the Samsung "8 core" is actually 4+4. Only 4 can be active.

 

[CHADBOGA]

All depends on the software.

8 cores is overkill for desktop users because the majority of the software apps that desktop users have at their disposal are not optimized to take advantage of those extra cores. And the desktop software design cycle is practically as lengthy as that for CPU design itself (4-5yrs).

Isn't the lack of optimisation largely due to the nature of the software apps, where it just doesn't lend itself to being able to exploit extra cores in a meaningful way?

I can't help but think the "8 Core" Phone CPU is little more than marketing to suck in the gullible, of which I expect there to be more of in the smartphone market than PC market.

 

[Homeles]

Good. Let them get sucked in.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Isn't the lack of optimisation largely due to the nature of the software apps, where it just doesn't lend itself to being able to exploit extra cores in a meaningful way?

I can't help but think the "8 Core" Phone CPU is little more than marketing to suck in the gullible, of which I expect there to be more of in the smartphone market than PC market.

Ya it is but we fanbois didn't realize that until tegra 3, graphics on phones now just doesn't matter until you move that same silly up to tablets more so if its x86

 

[MightyMalus]

Cores can be used if they want to be used. For instance, Battlefield 3 does use 6 cores if available. Or so I heard. The actual gameplay changes, more A.I/NPC's or something.