The anti-DRM thread

[PeterScott]

It is absurd isn't it. "But I want all my games in one place & don't want to have to keep track of what client launches which game, don't want my games locked to my hardware with custom .exe's, don't want to lose my whole game collection if the distributor ever pulls the plug, don't want up to -30% performance penalties from multi-layered virtualized based DRM, don't want every single thing I do in-game tracked online, don't want to be punished for missing out on pre-order exclusive bonuses due to doing the responsible thing and waiting for the post-release reviews, and don't want 3rd party licensed content such as soundtracks being retro-actively remotely disabled for everyone in future when their contract with the publisher expires". So the score remains at Pirates (8) : Paying Customers (0) on pretty much every store but GOG...

It really hasn't changed much. I remember back when I it used to be Disk based DRM. I bought KOTR and it had one the invasive Disk DRM systems (Starforce?) that installed nasty crap on your computer that caused many issues. So I never installed the disk. Instead I DL'd the cleaned up version off the internet and played that version. Still have KOTR in the box, still never installed it. A couple of years ago I wanted to play it again. So I bought it for cheap on GoG. Finally clean and DRM free.

Early on the game companies were teaching me to trust pirates more than corporations.

 

[zink77]

So the score remains at Pirates (8) : Paying Customers (0) on pretty much every store but GOG...

It's almost like the average citizen gamer is a computer illiterate moron, giving rise to mmo's, steam and f2p games because well the gaming masses are irrationally stupid and couldn't see the corporate worlds evil plan's to steal peoples software and now we have "windows 10 as a service". The balance of power has shifted from consumer to producer to the extreme where customers have zero power at all, so it's not a market.

Here's the reality -

The internet has undermined market principles because in ye old days Microsoft, valve, and software companies were forced to give you the complete files on disc or they'd be comitting fraud, then comes along the internet where they can hold some files back because the internet allows them to trap part of the game on computers in their offices and call it a "service"

Since they are 100's of miles away we lose our power to hold them accountable.

Steam wouldn't have ever gotten traction if we had portal tech to hold that software stealing man accountable. That's reality.

Valve and most companies are criminally engaged in software fraud and theft because the internet has granted them super powers to steal parts of the software files with impunity and since the public is stupid and ignorant as can be you get a disaster.

So the modern videogame, software and operating system market is a market for lemons, since the average computer and game/software buyer is too dumb to be a market participant, thereby producing dystopian disaster. An OS such as windows 10 having orwellian drm in it.

 

[BFG10K]

The internet has undermined market principles because in ye old days Microsoft, valve, and software companies were forced to give you the complete files on disc or they'd be comitting fraud, then comes along the internet where they can hold some files back because the internet allows them to trap part of the game on computers in their offices and call it a "service"

Yep, but it's more than just the internet. Steam blackmailed customers by locking HL2 to their "service".

If you notice, pretty much every new storefront since has done the same by locking games to force people to use it.

 

[BFG10K]

Massive Fortnite security flaw: https://www.washingtonpost.com/tech...ers-say/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.deb1d7110b12

These same people (Epic) are pushing their new game store. Multiple gaming stores create multiple potential data leaks.

 

[BFG10K]

Metro Exodus has been pulled from Steam to be an Epic store exclusive.The first two games are now getting review bombed on Steam.

Now 4A is threatening no new games if this one doesn't sell well: https://www.dsogaming.com/news/4a-g...e-pc-the-next-metro-will-not-come-out-for-it/

As we've seen from the BF5 flop, it's not a good idea to dismiss disgruntled customers.

Also apparently Epic's store has no offline mode, so you need a constant internet connection to play your games.

 

[ImpulsE69]

When publishers and devs start this crap I don't care if they never release a game again. There are always others. They never learn. Any sort of research would have shown them that tying it to Epic exclusively was going to hurt their sales. (remains to be seen, but I personally hope it bombs)

 

[BFG10K]

Well it looks like the Epic store uses spyware/data-mining to access things it shouldn't be accessing:

https://www.hardocp.com/news/2019/03/15/epic_games_denies_client_spying_accusations/

I'm sure their Chinese investors are lapping it up.

 

[Craig234]

The Steam problem and solution are easy: an open standard interface for game libraries is needed, so people can use one client they prefer and have competitive choices. Steam has an outrageous advantage as a near monopoly that if a game dev budgets $20 million to make a game, they have to sell nearly $20 million to give Steam a nearly $10 million cut for being the place people buy it.

Nothing about Steam begins to justify double digit shares of game sales. It's the same issue as when Windows took over the world by being the place everyone ported programs to, and so it got far more sales as a monopoly than for any actual quality of the product.

 

[BFG10K]

Devil May Cry 5, Denuvo vs no Denuvo: https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...20-fps-faster-than-denuvo-version-lol.253433/

 

[mopardude87]

I found something interesting with Rockstar lately.I had a internet outage for hours a few days ago and figured ok in offline mode i can play me some GTA V.Having done this many times in the past,i figured no problem.Oh apparently now even clicking offline mode for Rockstar you need a connection to validate the game key.I like the offline option that STILL wouldn't like me play the game.

I love paying $60 for a game and get this roadblock treating me like a common thief.Its not like my account has a receipt of sorts.You got no idea how often we get outages here or some circumstances has me without internet and well for some time till NOW GTA V offline was about as much fun as i could have without a internet connection.

Me and my buddy both couldn't log in and play with the same issue.We both talked about how we as consumers get less and less control over our purchased products.The products honestly seem to own you more then you own them.Its insane.I never thought i would be posting in the anti DRM thread but man having these rules over a PAID game and what i choose to do with it certainly doesn't make me feel like i own anything right?

 

[Artorias]

Well it looks like the Epic store uses spyware/data-mining to access things it shouldn't be accessing:

https://www.hardocp.com/news/2019/03/15/epic_games_denies_client_spying_accusations/

I'm sure their Chinese investors are lapping it up.

Not only that, but they are also now spying on Steam users as well.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...t-epic-or-anyone-messing-with-steam-user-data

 

[BFG10K]

https://zerolives.com/article/iscCk...-only-available-on-uplay-and-epic-games-store

https://www.neowin.net/news/ubisoft...s-store-will-be-removed-from-steam-at-launch/

https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/3/18293453/borderlands-3-release-date-trailer-xbox-ps4-pc-epic-store

So, how's everyone enjoying all this storefront "competition"?

 

[Racan]

Steam is down. It can't even start in offline mode... Don't you just love DRM?

 

[DrMrLordX]

So, how's everyone enjoying all this storefront "competition"?

Not much. I have The Division 2 free, but I am not going to play it since I'll have to mess with u-play. Another freebie game I got with my vid card - DMC 5 - won't start for me without a Denuvo-stripped .exe file (it ran fine until it inexplicably crashed. Now it doesn't work normally anymore).

Competition would be nice if I could shop for the same titles on different storefronts and let them compete on price or service. Exclusives are annoying.

 

[Artorias]

It's a phase that will pass. Steam is king because of its features and Valve listens to user feedback, sure it may take a while for things to change, but generally the Steam platform has improved every year. These other platforms are complete junk, I will say though that Origin has improved over the years.

PC gamers are patient and publishers are about to find that out. The industry is really in need of a major crash, and these upfront cash deals may be an early indicator.

 

[Genx87]

Didnt we go through this about a decade ago? These publishers thinking they can make more money funneling people into their DRM solution and off steam? Only to reverse course when they realize the maintenance costs of hosting ancient products that arent generating revenue?

 

[Craig234]

No, Steam is king because of the 'convenient to have everything in one place' monopoly just like Windows had with apps. I think we'd be a lot better off with compatibility and competition.

 

[DrMrLordX]

No, Steam is king because of the 'convenient to have everything in one place' monopoly just like Windows had with apps. I think we'd be a lot better off with compatibility and competition.

So where is the compatibility? I don't see an "omnilauncher" program that lets me run Steam, Origin, Epic, u-play, and GoG content all from one UI (with appropriate passwords already plugged into a password manager). Nor do I see a common marketplace where I can pick and choose from which vendor I will buy a product.

I see a lot of "walled garden" stores forming that make me use a seperate (and often cumbersome) piece of software to buy games that I can only buy from one store.

 

[BFG10K]

Installment #3 of the Denuvo analysis, proving yet again what bloated malware it really is:

 

[Craig234]

So where is the compatibility? I don't see an "omnilauncher" program that lets me run Steam, Origin, Epic, u-play, and GoG content all from one UI (with appropriate passwords already plugged into a password manager). Nor do I see a common marketplace where I can pick and choose from which vendor I will buy a product.

I see a lot of "walled garden" stores forming that make me use a seperate (and often cumbersome) piece of software to buy games that I can only buy from one store.

It doesn't exist yet, hence my saying it's what's needed.

Make the standard, and people can make stores that use it, with competition hopefully eventually forcing Steam to adopt it, but in the meantime anyone can use it.

 

[zink77]

Man anyone talking about omni launchers is already full redacted... the fact is if the market worked, mmo's, drm and steam wouldn't even exist. When Blizzard put single player drm in diablo 3 to stream part of the game logic from their servers, everyone fell for it and bought the redacted game.

Gamers are such redacted pushovers. As soon as everquest, Ultima online, world of warcraft and guild wars 1 were things that everyone bought... the rest was inevitable.

The reality is there can be no market in an internet enabled society because makers of software have all the power to steal software from comfort and safety of their offices while their customers are 100's of miles away.

The fiber optic cables we've laid all over the planet act as virtual computer and whoever controls the code controls the network. They are essentially a parallel government that can pass laws over-ruling consumer rights without our consent because they control how the game is coded.

To be frank, the private power model doesn't work in an internet enabled environment, we'd need to havea a say in how these corporations are run for public benefit and that won't happen because of the politics.

Profanity isn't allowed in the tech forums.
You keep getting warned about this, but it
seems like it isn't working. If you don't figure
out a way to type without the profanity, the
next time you will not like the outcome.

AT Mod Usandthem

 

[DrMrLordX]

It doesn't exist yet, hence my saying it's what's needed.

Make the standard, and people can make stores that use it, with competition hopefully eventually forcing Steam to adopt it, but in the meantime anyone can use it.

I will agree with you there, 100%. My fear is that if anyone tried making a third-party program that could hook into multiple stores, that either a). the publisher would be sued for, you know, something lawyer-y or b). Valve/EA/Epic/Ubisoft/etc. would keep changing their login interface subtly enough to constantly break the software.

I think you might be able to make an omnilauncher work through HTML using the web versions of the stores for the purpose of buying products and account management. That would let you bypass the actual store interface intrinsic to each individual launcher. But at that point you can just open multiple tabs in a browser. Actually launching the games is something else entirely. Only GoG games would be fully launchable, unless you also had copies of the standard launcher software for each store running in the background, soaking up resources and being, you know, annoying. At least in the case of Steam, you can plug in your login/pass and then navigate to the .exe and launch it that way, so, again, it's doable. Pretty sure you could do the same with the other stores.

You would effectively lose access to friend lists and things like that unless you went through each individual piece of launcher software and used the native features. Hooking into all that from an omnilauncher might simply be impossible.

Gamers are such redacted pushovers.

Then leave them alone and go do something else. Honestly, it seems like you have nothing to add to the conversation.

 

[mopardude87]

Just had to deal with Ea and their trash drm. Guess there was a outage cause i got the popular and always great " Ea online is currently unavailable" caption on the top of the trash pile. I solely miss the days of slapping in a disc installing a game maybe a patch so you can run without a disc and never bothering with this. i get it if you run the clients to install games but if you launch them the drm should not be demanded to play them for crying out loud.

I swear its like a part of the new world order. Control every and all things possible. Heck with the idea you just bought all your game legally, lets just treat you and everyone else like common thieves and force this drm crap right down your throats. Oh you want to play GTA V offline cause a drunk hit a pole and took out the internet for 5 plus city blocks? NOPE! just deal with the fact you can't play your game cause we can't verify you stole the damn thing even though we have physical proof you actually paid for it.

Someone somewhere came up with this idea . Is this person perhaps a distant relative to Hitler by chance? I would blame the Russians but Trump does that already. Sorry for the rant but dang it its tiredsome to deal with.

 

[DrMrLordX]

maybe a patch so you can run without a disc and never bothering with this.

Those patches still exist. Makes it hard to run official software updates, and of course you generally can't use them with multiplayer games that hook into the publisher's servers. I had to resort to a patched .exe to play DMC5. It works, I just can't update the software until someone releases a new patched .exe for DMC5 and puts it somewhere that I can get it without a mountain of malware.

 

[mopardude87]

Those patches still exist. Makes it hard to run official software updates, and of course you generally can't use them with multiplayer games that hook into the publisher's servers. I had to resort to a patched .exe to play DMC5. It works, I just can't update the software until someone releases a new patched .exe for DMC5 and puts it somewhere that I can get it without a mountain of malware.

I had to patch a friends COD game as she is into older ones but she hates swapping out discs every time she changes games. She is extremely old school in her ways and plays mainly CS Source and the old COD and MOH . That woman would be at home in this thread trust me.While you officially can't use a official patch to play it without a disc if you used a cracked short cut it would bypass the requirement for a disc. Oh the irony that to avoid a disc on a legit copy you have to use a cracked short cut. It may have been a cracked EXE not sure which. Not condoning piracy by any means it was just a radical fix for what appeared to be a simple problem that should have had a fix from the publishers of the game. I found the fix in a jiffy but perhaps with more dedicated time there was another solution but this one appeared to have been a commonly recommended one lol.

BF2 which was the last game i play that required a disc at least got patches that dropped that requirement.