The Angry Rich

Oct 16, 1999
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Op-Ed by Paul Krugman. Just struck me as relevant and on the nose.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/20/opinion/20krugman.html

Anger is sweeping America. True, this white-hot rage is a minority phenomenon, not something that characterizes most of our fellow citizens. But the angry minority is angry indeed, consisting of people who feel that things to which they are entitled are being taken away. And they’re out for revenge.

No, I’m not talking about the Tea Partiers. I’m talking about the rich.

These are terrible times for many people in this country. Poverty, especially acute poverty, has soared in the economic slump; millions of people have lost their homes. Young people can’t find jobs; laid-off 50-somethings fear that they’ll never work again.

Yet if you want to find real political rage — the kind of rage that makes people compare President Obama to Hitler, or accuse him of treason — you won’t find it among these suffering Americans. You’ll find it instead among the very privileged, people who don’t have to worry about losing their jobs, their homes, or their health insurance, but who are outraged, outraged, at the thought of paying modestly higher taxes.

The rage of the rich has been building ever since Mr. Obama took office. At first, however, it was largely confined to Wall Street. Thus when New York magazine published an article titled “The Wail Of the 1%,” it was talking about financial wheeler-dealers whose firms had been bailed out with taxpayer funds, but were furious at suggestions that the price of these bailouts should include temporary limits on bonuses. When the billionaire Stephen Schwarzman compared an Obama proposal to the Nazi invasion of Poland, the proposal in question would have closed a tax loophole that specifically benefits fund managers like him.

Now, however, as decision time looms for the fate of the Bush tax cuts — will top tax rates go back to Clinton-era levels? — the rage of the rich has broadened, and also in some ways changed its character.

For one thing, craziness has gone mainstream. It’s one thing when a billionaire rants at a dinner event. It’s another when Forbes magazine runs a cover story alleging that the president of the United States is deliberately trying to bring America down as part of his Kenyan, “anticolonialist” agenda, that “the U.S. is being ruled according to the dreams of a Luo tribesman of the 1950s.” When it comes to defending the interests of the rich, it seems, the normal rules of civilized (and rational) discourse no longer apply.

At the same time, self-pity among the privileged has become acceptable, even fashionable.

Tax-cut advocates used to pretend that they were mainly concerned about helping typical American families. Even tax breaks for the rich were justified in terms of trickle-down economics, the claim that lower taxes at the top would make the economy stronger for everyone.

These days, however, tax-cutters are hardly even trying to make the trickle-down case. Yes, Republicans are pushing the line that raising taxes at the top would hurt small businesses, but their hearts don’t really seem in it. Instead, it has become common to hear vehement denials that people making $400,000 or $500,000 a year are rich. I mean, look at the expenses of people in that income class — the property taxes they have to pay on their expensive houses, the cost of sending their kids to elite private schools, and so on. Why, they can barely make ends meet.

And among the undeniably rich, a belligerent sense of entitlement has taken hold: it’s their money, and they have the right to keep it. “Taxes are what we pay for civilized society,” said Oliver Wendell Holmes — but that was a long time ago.

The spectacle of high-income Americans, the world’s luckiest people, wallowing in self-pity and self-righteousness would be funny, except for one thing: they may well get their way. Never mind the $700 billion price tag for extending the high-end tax breaks: virtually all Republicans and some Democrats are rushing to the aid of the oppressed affluent.

You see, the rich are different from you and me: they have more influence. It’s partly a matter of campaign contributions, but it’s also a matter of social pressure, since politicians spend a lot of time hanging out with the wealthy. So when the rich face the prospect of paying an extra 3 or 4 percent of their income in taxes, politicians feel their pain — feel it much more acutely, it’s clear, than they feel the pain of families who are losing their jobs, their houses, and their hopes.

And when the tax fight is over, one way or another, you can be sure that the people currently defending the incomes of the elite will go back to demanding cuts in Social Security and aid to the unemployed. America must make hard choices, they’ll say; we all have to be willing to make sacrifices.

But when they say “we,” they mean “you.” Sacrifice is for the little people.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
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www.ShawCAD.com
And among the undeniably rich, a belligerent sense of entitlement has taken hold: it’s their money, and they have the right to keep it.

I think this is all that needs to be pointed out about krugman and those who lap up his sort of drivel. To krugman and the slime that nod to his BS - it's not your money - it's the gov'ts.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
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Krugman is a poverty pimp himself. He's an outsourcer, kensman, and all that corp shill jazz which has aided and abetted all those poor people he claims to decry.

Cutting edge, comparative advantage, get education? China got that figured out too, just steal your knowledge based jobs/patents/ideas.

His ideas are nothing more than sucking from those that have of a dying country. Whats next gulags to make you work?
 
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glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
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Angry raging rich folks? Sure, whatever you say. The main people I see that fit the angry description are class warriors angry the rich haven't been targeted more by the current administration for confiscatory tax policies. I would cite Krugman as an example, but he's just using the rich to distract from the disastrous policies he supports.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
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I think this is all that needs to be pointed out about krugman and those who lap up his sort of drivel. To krugman and the slime that nod to his BS - it's not your money - it's the gov'ts.
Ahh, po' babies. If they don't like the dues, they're always free to leave the club. Awfully funny how few of them do, however. They want all the privileges and perks of living here -- including their fabulous wealth -- but they don't want to pay the tab when it comes due.
 

JMapleton

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2008
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Never heard of this "anger" of the rich.

Seems the the author invents or exaggerates a notion (angry rich people), dissects it, and then looks like a hero.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
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Angry raging rich folks? Sure, whatever you say. The main people I see that fit the angry description are class warriors angry the rich haven't been targeted more by the current administration for confiscatory tax policies. I would cite Krugman as an example, but he's just using the rich to distract from the disastrous policies he supports.
Funny how the tax rates of just a decade ago, though significantly lower than the rates of the 60's and 70's, are suddenly "confiscatory" to the right. Drama much?
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
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Never heard of this "anger" of the rich.

Seems the the author invents or exaggerates a notion (angry rich people), dissects it, and then looks like a hero.
I'll grant you that in my experience it's the wanna-be rich who wail far more about taxes than those who are actually well to do.
 

punjabiplaya

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2006
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we've switched from racism and the "white man's burden" to wealth-ism and the "rich man's burden."
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
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I think this is all that needs to be pointed out about krugman and those who lap up his sort of drivel. To krugman and the slime that nod to his BS - it's not your money - it's the gov'ts.

Way to go- clip the context! Forget the part where he quotes Oliver Wendell Holmes in the same breath- "Taxes are what we pay for civilized society."

Apparently, America's wealthiest resent paying any taxes at all, claiming the modern version of the divine right of Kings, where commoners paid taxes to the aristocracy. If they can avoid paying taxes while lending the govt money, they'll get their wish as debt maintenance overwhelms the treasury...

There was a time when America's wealthiest realized that it was a privilege to pay big taxes on big money...
 

JMapleton

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2008
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I'll grant you that in my experience it's the wanna-be rich who wail far more about taxes than those who are actually well to do.

That is true. Extremist fringe voters as well, when they yell loud enough, they tend to appear as a majority, and their opinions start to mistakenly represent the majority.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
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www.ShawCAD.com
Way to go- clip the context! Forget the part where he quotes Oliver Wendell Holmes in the same breath- "Taxes are what we pay for civilized society."

Apparently, America's wealthiest resent paying any taxes at all, claiming the modern version of the divine right of Kings, where commoners paid taxes to the aristocracy. If they can avoid paying taxes while lending the govt money, they'll get their wish as debt maintenance overwhelms the treasury...

There was a time when America's wealthiest realized that it was a privilege to pay big taxes on big money...

Nice try junior but it doesn't change anything. The point is - your types (krugman, bowfinger, the OP, socialists in general) think of money as the gov'ts(for society or whatever they want it for) instead of the earner.

Also, here we have yet another example of a leftist trying to claim the opposition wants a zero/no/zilch and then trying to argue against it. When you can be honest - please try to address the issue again. :)
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
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Funny how the tax rates of just a decade ago, though significantly lower than the rates of the 60's and 70's, are suddenly "confiscatory" to the right. Drama much?

I'm not talking about folks who simply want to let the Bush tax cuts lapse. I'm talking about the angry left, who think that the rich can only get that way by taking advantage of the masses or "cheating" and would be happy to raise top rates far beyond what was seen in the last few decades.

While there is an angry right as well who are angry about taxes (for them being too high rather than too low), I'd daresay that the vast majority of them aren't rich by any stretch of the imagination, but rather poor white trash in BFE Idaho or something.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
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Way to go- clip the context! Forget the part where he quotes Oliver Wendell Holmes in the same breath- "Taxes are what we pay for civilized society."
In that case we should increase taxes on the poor since they are the only people in the country not paying anything at all.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
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I'm not talking about folks who simply want to let the Bush tax cuts lapse. I'm talking about the angry left, who think that the rich can only get that way by taking advantage of the masses or "cheating" and would be happy to raise top rates far beyond what was seen in the last few decades. ...
Fair enough, but I'm afraid I'm not seeing such lefties, at least to any material extent. I see people on the right often raising that straw man, about raising taxes back to the 70-90% range, but I don't recall seeing the "raise taxes on the rich" crowd actually advocating such extreme rates.
 
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BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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Way to go- clip the context! Forget the part where he quotes Oliver Wendell Holmes in the same breath- "Taxes are what we pay for civilized society."

If paying taxes is supposed to get you a civilized society, then EVERYBODY is getting ripped off.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
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In that case we should increase taxes on the poor since they are the only people in the country not paying anything at all.
Ah yes, RNC Propaganda 101 -- keep repeating the big lies over and over until people start to assume they're true. In general the poor pay plenty of taxes. They just don't pay much (on the average) in Federal Income Tax.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
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Fair enough, but I'm afraid I'm not seeing such lefties, at least to any material extent. I see people on the right often raising that straw man, about raising taxes back to the 70-90% range, but I don't recall seeing any of the "raise taxes on the rich" crowd actually advocating such extreme rates.

I'd daresay there are just as few on the opposite end of the spectrum who think that tax rates should be zero. Yet you seem willing to say "feel free to leave the country" to any who disagree with you about changing the top rates a few odd percent either way. Telling someone to stop disagreeing or GTFO seems closer to angry than a completely calm and reasonable position to me.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
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Ah yes, RNC Propaganda 101 -- keep repeating the big lies over and over until people start to assume they're true. In general the poor pay plenty of taxes. They just don't pay much (on the average) in Federal Income Tax.

Here's something for you to chew on - why has the President (Democrat held) or Congress (Democrat held) proposed and/or passed a cut or suspension of payroll taxes then?
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
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I'd daresay there are just as few on the opposite end of the spectrum who think that tax rates should be zero. Yet you seem willing to say "feel free to leave the country" to any who disagree with you about changing the top rates a few odd percent either way. Telling someone to stop disagreeing or GTFO seems closer to angry than a completely calm and reasonable position to me.
My point is simply that in spite of how loudly some bitch about our "oppressive" taxes, when push comes to shove virtually every one of them somehow decides that the value in remaining here is greater than the cost. I suspect the fact that our tax rates are among the most reasonable in the industrialized world helps their decision. After all, nobody who's used to the luxuries of living here is likely to be thrilled at the prospect of giving it all up to live in a low-tax utopia like Guatemala.

Ultimately, of course, I can only speak for myself. I see the glass as half full. While I'd love to pay less in taxes, I'm mature enough to recognize there are bills to be paid. Therefore, I don't bitch about taxes. It's worth it to me to live in a country where I can earn such a great income and can enjoy all the tremendous benefits available.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
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Here's something for you to chew on - why has the President (Democrat held) or Congress (Democrat held) proposed and/or passed a cut or suspension of payroll taxes then?
Umm. Sorry, what does that have to do with "the poor [ ... ] not paying anything at all" being a lie?
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
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Umm. Sorry, what does that have to do with "the poor [ ... ] not paying anything at all" being a lie?

I didn't claim that the poor pay no taxes. But for a party who claims to represent the poor, the Democrats certainly spend a lot more time and effort trying to raise the top income tax rate on the rich than reducing taxes that hit the poor the hardest (payroll and sales). If I were a cynic I'd say it's as if they don't actually give a shit about the poor.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
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It must be terribly oppressive to earn hundreds of millions per year and pay 17% federal taxes. just horrible. I really can't imagine how terrible it must be, particularly for the children... just think of how much better off they'd be if they could keep it all...